Subscribe now and choose from over 30 free gifts worth up to £49 - Plus get £25 to spend in our shop
and i thought he was our cycling champion,
the back dealing barperson eh?
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/14/boris-johnson-blames-victims-cycling
It's ok though, he's a cuddly buffoon isn't he.
This is the same bloke that in the run up to the election said he would not cut the front line Fire Service in London. He is now cutting the front line Fire Service in London more then anyone else before him.
I still can't believe our london based chums voted him in, again.
I didnt vote for him!!
fwiw he had all of the london papers and all the nationals (gruaindad even turned on ken!) for him and he still only scraped in by a few percent
moved to London Ton? I don't think boris cares much for those outside the M25 unless they are near a crossrail station.
We need to step back and see what [i]actually[/i] led to these accidents so proper changes can be made to improve safety. What we don't need are knee jerk reactions from politicians, even if some of the incidents may be found to be due to errors of judgement by cyclists, nor do we need internet warriors insisting that the cyclist is never wrong and it is all "the others" fault.
The truth will lie somewhere between the two extremes. Let's hope they find it and do somthing about it when we all know what is actually is
I don't think Boris is anybody's champion. Except his own, of course. Even Cameron has more sense than to trust him.
i`m pretty sure in teh interview i watched he said we all need to use road responsibly and didnt specifically single out cyclists.
i like the fact there are no actually quotes from boris in teh piece...
just because its in the guardian doesnt mean its not scaremongering bollox or misrepresentation.
I voted for him.
Mostly because the alternative was the utterly hateful Ken Livingstone - who was worse in everyway.
Mostly because the alternative was the utterly hateful Ken Livingstone - who was worse in everyway
how is ken worse? - genuine question
I heard the interview on the radio , he started off saying he wasn't out to blkame the victims and then went on to do exactly that, talking about cyclists jumping red lights and cutting accross lanes with no regard for their own or other's safety .The guy for the cyclist's side of the argument was a wet lettuce .
Despite Boris being a self-serving right wing twonk, what exactly can he do? They had a guy on the radio from some cycling organisation moaning that their demands had been repeatedly ignored. And what were these demands? Banning lorries from Londons streets. He didn't elaborate on the logistics of achieving that
how is ken worse? - genuine question
http://www.jdl-uk.org/2012/03/ken-livingstone-communist-jew-hating.html
I voted for him and would again. I didnt think Ken was a terrible mayor but he's got a troubling tenedency for identity politics in a city where people generally rub along pretty well.
If you hate Tories you wont like Boris. Haters gonna hate, lot of that on the left.
LCC has been banging on about dutch style segregated infrastructure for years
http://lcc.org.uk/pages/why-go-dutch
stuff like this bike roundabout being constructed in holland
[img] 
[/img]
infact along with kens bike hire scheme he also planned these much more expensive network and a 20mph limit and a 25 quid a day tax for big engined cars and lorries
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/superhighways-in-kens-500m-cycle-revolution-6655432.html
of course Borris got elected claimed the bike scheme as his own scrapped kens plans and painted some really busy dangerous bits of road blue and called them cycle superhighways
but he did do some lovely photo ops with kelly brook on a bike
add to that borris lying to the assembly about the % of cyclists at fault in accidents
scrapping the western extension of the c-charge for his chums in chelsea
covering up smog alerts, closing pollution monitoring stations and so on
he started off saying he wasn't out to blkame the victims and then went on to do exactly that, talking about cyclists jumping red lights and cutting accross lanes with no regard for their own or other's safety
He didn't say that in this case they were at fault, it was a more general comment about cyclists putting themselves at risk which is probably correct. I saw a cyclist run straight through a red light into cross traffic this morning and as he says it is difficult to design a system to cope with that. His big mistake was even to mention it at this point as it becomes to easy to mix up the messages
on my commute today i saw a girl with over the ears headphones, dark glasses, no helmet, riding a boris bike go inside a tipper lorry which was stationary at lights, indicating to turn left. I pulled to the cab side and asked the driver if he was aware there was a cyclist on his left side. He shook his head, got out of the cab and politely told the cyclist she would have died if he was not made aware of her presence. She stuck two fingers at him and jumped the red light.
the behavior of some of my fellow commuters on Kensington High Street is truly baffling.
i like the fact there are no actually quotes from boris in teh piece...
This.
No he doesn't.
leffeboy - Member
He didn't say that in this case they were at fault, it was a more general comment about cyclists putting themselves at risk which is probably correct.
+1
Sensational headlines dont help, although in the Guardian's case at least the sub-title only went as far as to say, "Mayor [b]appears[/b] to blame...."
Journalistic standards must be slipping when the same report quotes Boris clearly separating his points from the specific, tragic cases this week. Perhaps the subtitle should have included the word, "not"?
Still newspapers have to sold somehow!
http://www.jdl-uk.org/2012/03/ken-livingstone-communist-jew-hating.html
br />
so you base this on a smear campaign by the daily telegraph and an article by the jewish defence league? ok.
If you hate Tories you wont like Boris. Haters gonna hate, lot of that on the left.
And not on the right AT ALL.
😆
Boris is a ****. The current crop of Tories are especially massive ****s.
Ken's far from perfect but all the focus on his personality proves that his policies are pretty sensible for London, IMO.
(ex-Londoner, glad to be gone)
mashiehood - That'll be the [url= http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/oct/24/bike-snobs-guide-cycling-tribes ]Beautiful Godzilla[/url]
A breed certainly not exclusive to London
[i]The Beautiful Godzilla is a particular kind of urban female cyclist who rides as though the rest of the world were created simply to yield to her. She's generally young, good-looking and clad in expensive clothes. She also rides an old three-speed or perhaps a 10-speed or Dutch city bike, carries her handbag on the edge of her handlebars and if she has a basket it usually contains a small dog or perhaps a baguette. She's on her mobile phone at all times and her approach to cycling in a densely populated city is a combination of self-entitlement and Mr Magoo-type dumb luck. Like any self-entitled person, she can't imagine a car would possibly hit her, even if she's riding against traffic and it's coming right at her. Actually, you sort of find yourself disappointed when it doesn't. And just like Mr Magoo would wander into a construction site and a girder would materialise right as he was about to walk off the scaffolding, the Beautiful Godzilla blithely rides through red lights and busy intersections, emerging on the other side unscathed and just as photogenic as she was when she entered it.
[b]Why other cyclists don't like them:[/b] They should be dead but aren't.[/i]
[b]Compatibility with other cyclists:[/b] Will accept deliveries from Messengers; will develop crushes on Messengers.
Boris is a *. The current crop of Tories are especially massive *.
Difficult to find an argument against that statement 😉
Journalistic standards must be slipping when the same report quotes Boris clearly separating his points from the specific, tragic cases this week.
Some of his best friends are cyclists, I'm sure.
🙄
Ha we re all [url= http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/features/fairpoint/10800707.Cyclists_are_a_nuisance_on_the_road/ ]Nuisances [/url]
edit
Borris is clearly saying he thinks the cyclists were at fault in some of the cases
Today the Mayor said there was “no question of blame or finger-pointing” but warned cyclists and motorists: “Do think of the laws of the road. Because if you take these hasty, rash, precipitous decisions we’re seeing sometimes, then you will be endangering your life.”On LBC radio, he added: “Some of the cases we’re seeing in the past few days, they make the heart bleed, because you could see people have taken decisions that really did put their lives in danger. When people take decisions which are very risky — jumping red lights, cycling across fast-moving traffic to get to somewhere in a way that is completely unexpected by the motorist, and without looking to see whether traffic is coming — it is very difficult for the transport engineers to second-guess that.”
A Transport for London spokeswoman, asked whether the Mayor was suggesting any of the cyclists who died had jumped red lights, said it was “too early to say”.
he is of course right to warn cyclists not to take risks
Im not sure his comments are helpfull especially to the families of the bereaved until the full details are known
as pointed out on another thread the Met were saying JC-de menezes jumped barriers at the tube station for days after it was known not to be true
I saw a cyclist run straight through a red light into cross traffic this morning and as he says it is difficult to design a system to cope with that. His big mistake was even to mention it at this point as it becomes to easy to mix up the message
Put up more cameras to record the accidents - if the motorist is at fault prosecute them, if the cyclist has done something like the above then court time can be saved as we can just write it off as an example of darwinian evolution...
I can see why he's doing it, as Darren Johnson says:
“Four out of the five deaths of cyclists in the last nine days have involved either his blue paint or his red buses."
Also agree with his further comments:
"The mayor's comments this morning which targeted cyclists breaking the law as the primary cause of death and serious injury is an attempt to blame the victims, rather than tackling the real problem of HGVs, buses and dangerous junctions.
"It is an insult to the dead and injured that the mayor continues to blame victims in this way, rather than accepting his responsibility and getting on with fixing the things he has direct control over."
But typical of Boris, bluster bluster photo-op bluster.
> http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/andrewgilligan/100155430/ken-livingstone-has-told-85-different-lies-during-this-campaign/> http://www.jdl-uk.org/2012/03/ken-livingstone-communist-jew-hating.html
/p>so you base this on a smear campaign by the daily telegraph and an article by the jewish defence league? ok.
those were just two links that came up, but there are some other cronyism claims and other dodgy stuff which I could find on a search as there is so much other stuff.
You would be foolish to think that Ken is any better than Boris on an integrity front, imho. He sounds alright on his radio show though.
Van Halen - Member
i like the fact there are no actually quotes from boris in teh piece...
...but there is a link to the original article reporting his comments...with direct quotes...
The mayor's comments this morning which targeted cyclists breaking the law as the primary cause of death and serious injury is an attempt to blame the victims,
That may be his interpretation, but that really isn't what Boris said though, is it?
Although he may well have said something about eating pussy while in a crack fuelled drunken stupour...
DJ seems to be making fair bit totally separate points lavished with a false accusation.
So Boris is reported to have said
"You cannot blame the victim in these circumstances. But what you can say is that when people make decisions on the road that are very risky – jumping red lights, moving across fast-moving traffic in a way that is completely unexpected and without looking to see what traffic is doing [b]– it's very difficult for the traffic engineers to second-guess that."[[/b]/quote]Exactly, traffic engineers can't do anything about cyclists doing stupid things. That is not the same thing as blaming the victims here. But I guess it's is easier for DJ to put words into Boris' mouth for effect.
That is not the same thing as blaming the victims here
The inference is pretty damn strong. And he's got form in this area.
thm is that you thats abridged borris' statement or your source?
As is the opening sentence in the quote, Lifer.
Or perhaps that is the saying the same as, "with respect....." 😉 You decide. But little more than headline making for headline makings sake IMO.
Edit: Kimbers my source. In this case the Guardian. If incorrect, I stand by my earlier comments re quality of journalistic standards!!!!! 😉
+1 Leffeboy
He only commented on the fact that its a really difficult issue to resolve and that cyclist are not blame less, which is true.
The inference is pretty damn strong. And he's got form in this area.
Sorry I didnt get that at all, I think thats how you interpreted what he said... IMO wrongly.
The inference is pretty damn strong.
but
"There's no question of blame or finger pointing. That doesn't work in these circumstances.
and
You cannot blame the victim in these circumstances.
The inference is pretty damn strong. And he's got form in this area.
He's also got form in the area of spending millions researching and trialling safer cycling facilities http://www.trl.co.uk/cyclinginnovationtrials/
And he then goes on to a)point the finger and b)blame the victims.
Some of you Tory boys are either proper suckers or think the rest of us are.
Alternatively, some posters (Tory or otherwise) are happy to read the details themselves rather than relying on BS headlines. Who's the sucker?
Has anyone read the article linked properly? He made the comment in May last yr then held his hands up.
Alternatively, some posters (Tory or otherwise) are happy to read the details themselves
And some of us are capable of reading between the lines as well.
Are you not or do you choose to put your head in the sand?
Better than putting it between my legs. It's weird talking from there.
ninfan - Member"The inference is pretty damn strong. And he's got form in this area."
He's also got form in the area of spending millions researching and trialling safer cycling facilities http://www.trl.co.uk/cyclinginnovationtrials/
Bless
But I was talking more about:
In May last year Johnson cited a statistic at one of his mayor's question time sessions: 62% of accidents in which a cyclist was killed or seriously hurt in London, he proclaimed, were found to have been connected to cyclist law-breaking. Cycle groups scratched their heads at the figure and asked for a source. Months passed, with the mayor's office saying the reference was "being researched".Eventually, Johnson came clean: he had been told the figure by a member of the public at a meeting and trotted it out without checking. Transport for London then came up with the real proportion of cycling accidents found to have been due to cyclist law-breaking: 6%.
teamhurtmore - Member
Alternatively, some posters (Tory or otherwise) are happy to read the details themselves rather than relying on BS headlines. Who's the sucker?
Some are also familiar with Boris's particularly disingenuous rhetorical style.
True Lifer, hes an odd one Boris. Half the time he's talking bollocks and the other half some sense. They key is to be able to descriminate between the two.
I love Boris. I think hes ****ing ace compared to what else is on offer.
Plus he PAYS taxes. The three Party Leaders still haven't declared their tax affairs.
He didn't say that in this case they were at fault, it was a more general comment about cyclists putting themselves at risk which is probably correct.
Not sure how that helps anyone. Referring to the law breaking and risk taking of other people cycling, when talking about a case like this, where the full facts haven't been reported yet, is stupid. If there was a fatal crash involving two cars, would he be talking about how some people speed, or drink drive, before finding out if either person involved had been speeding or drink driving? No. He wouldn't, would he.
Boris shouldn't have even mentioned other cyclists when in discussion about these deaths. It was inappropriate and crass.
Had the interview been about a serial rapist would Boris have referenced false rape accusations? I sincerely doubt it. There seems to be some sort of sensitivity disconnect when it comes to cyclists dying. Some sense that when cyclists die or are injured it can be rolled up into a 'get cyclists under control' debate. It's missing the point.
Maybe cyclists would obey the law better if roads were safe, maybe not, but it would beat the current hand wringing. It would be nice if road safety debates didn't only happen when there are dead cyclists. It would also be nice if said dead cyclists didn't immediately become political footballs too.
Maybe cyclists would obey the law better if roads were safe
are the roads unsafe?
i would say cyclists are, in the majority, unsafe.
Don't talk shit Mr Halen; some [b]people[/b] are unsafe on the roads, whether they are on foot, driving, or cycling.
depends on what you call unsafe cycling, running reds on an empty road, creeping forward at redlights, shooting up the inside of lorries, what if its a cycle lane etc etc
this morning on my stretch up nottinghill from shepherds bush roundabout was probably about 10 or so cyclists all more or less at the same pace
one lady in particular, sser! jumped all the reds, only when there was no oncoming traffic though, I imagine wound up a few roadtaxpayers, personally I flitered up the traffic on the outside, waited at the lights, did creep forward a bit but the ASLs were full of cars and motorbikes! but I didnt see any unsafe cycling even if some of it may have been ilegal.
The only person being genuinely unsafe was a woman in an audi who turned into a keep clear box from the other side of the road, the outer lane of traffic goin up the hill was stationary the inside lane had about 7 or 8 cyclists in it she turned right into them sending cyclists all over the place, one guy smacked on her back windscreen a few times and rightly so! as she was stuck in the keep clear box staring straight ahead as though half a dozen cyclists werent all gesticulating rudely at her. I imagine she wouldve totally agreed with Boris' comments.
I love Boris. I think hes * ace compared to what else is on offer.
And that's why the country's fed. I bet you'd like him as PM too, wouldn't you?
BJ makes me laugh.
I remember in the run up to the 2012 games, he said the UK were going to win enough silver and gold to bail out Greece and Spain combined.
Ah - so we've finally found the only man outside the M25 who doesn't think Boris is an utter ****!!!!
I think you should put your 'I heart Boris' t shirt on head off for a night out in Liverpool
Dales_rider - Member
Ha we re all
[url= http://www.worcesternews.co.uk/features/fairpoint/10800707.Cyclists_are_a_nuisance_on_the_road/ ]Nuisances[/url]
Fair play, I complained about this, and within half an hour I had this response -
"Your e-mail has been passed to me, and I thank you for its thoughtfulness and courtesy. Not all responses have been like this.
I would be very happy to accept your response for publication, either as a letter or perhaps as a column in paper and/or on the website.
I’m also sorry if we have caused offence where it was not intended.
The Fair Point column is on our opinion pages and represents a personal view, not necessarily that of the paper.
James’ trenchant comment in a tongue-in-cheek style is not meant to be read literally, or taken too seriously. His style should not be read as condemning all cyclists. He uses generalisation to highlight bad behavior within the group.
James’ column in no way seeks to incite drivers to be aggressive towards cyclists, and I believe anyone reading it will understand that this is hyperbole, just as his comments about blue whales and the planet spinning out of control because of obesity are just fantasy.
I have said some of this in the comment section of the paper and invited cyclists to comment, and four letters have been printed so far with more to come..
We have written extensively in the paper about the health and fitness benefits of cycling, the dangers on our roads to cyclists, we report cycling as a sport extensively.
We have and do report positively about cycling and will continue to do so.
Regards"
Gotta say that's kind of fair enough - now, what to write as a response... 😀
He's the most dangerous man in British politics since Ken Clarke.
Very good at deflecting attention away from the real issues.
Pondo, did the WN also add that James Connell is 12?
He's the most dangerous man in British politics since Ken Clarke.
He's young to be a politician then. May be we misjudge Master Connell at our peril?
'Very good at deflecting attention away from the real issues.'
I remember he was asked where the electricity came from to charge electric cars.
He said from the plug.
Despite Boris being a self-serving right wing twonk, what exactly can he do?
Do us all a favour, and resign.
They had a guy on the radio from some cycling organisation moaning that their demands had been repeatedly ignored. And what were these demands? Banning lorries from Londons streets. He didn't elaborate on the logistics of achieving that
Why should he? That's not his job. Large trucks are involved in far too many deaths. London's streets simply weren't/aren't designed to cope with such large vehicles, especially not considering the already excessive volume of motor vehicle traffic. Without from greedy corporations and developers wanting to build massive monstrosities in central London, there would be no need for such numbers of lorries. Why aren;'t those same developers looking at alternatives? There's a ****ing great big river running through the centre of London, why can't they use that to transport materials in/out? Better still, why aren't they looking at other parts of Britain to develop in; like some of those northern cities desperate for investment? London's full, we don't need any more skyscrapers.
I voted for him.
Mostly because the alternative was the utterly hateful Ken Livingstone - who was worse in everyway.
I'd like to know exactly how Ken Livingstone can possible be any worse than the lying, cheating, racist, sexist philandering **** that is Boris Johnson.
Let's look at some facts:
[u]Under Ken[/u]
Congestion Charge - massive success, provides much needed revenue, reduces congestion (!), reduces pollution, encourages people to look at alternative means of transport.
Implemented hundreds of miles of new safe cycle lane development.
Bicycle Hire Scheme - yes, it was during Ken's reign, that the scheme was proposed, designed and given the go-ahead. In fact it was Jenny Jones who was part of the committee that first proposed it.
Transport Fares -lowered significantly, discount fares for the unemployed (gives greater mobility to look for work), free transport for under 18s in full time employment, universally popular with Londoners. The fuel deal with Venezuela was instrumental in enabling this, and meant Venezueala could benefit from London's transport expertise. Win-win.
Oh, and Ken was instrumental in London getting the Olympics.
[u]Under Boris[/u]
Western extension of CC scrapped to appease his Kensington chums. More congestion and less revenue for London.
Bicycle Hire Scheme- did a dodgy deal with his chums at Barclays, to give them a fantastically cheap promotional vehicle by painting a few dangerous roads with blue strips, and giving Londoners a worse deal as other companies were willing to invest much larger sums into the scheme. Hire charges have increased; initial/30 min hire has doubled to £2. The whole scheme costs taxpayers' money, contrary to Boris' promises that it wouldn't.
Transport Fares- more than doubled. Cheap fares for the unemployed scrapped. Venezuelan oil deal scrapped on purely ideological grounds. 'Boris Bus' cost astronomical and actually a lot more expensive than existing designs, and unlikely to ever be profitable. Little more than a vanity project, like the ****ing useless waste of taxpayers' money that is the 'Emirates Airline', which was meant to be 100% privately funded; yet another one of Boris' lies.
Oh, and the Olympics ended up costing several times what it was meant to...
In short, Boris has benefited no-one except big business and his chums. Meanwhile Londoners are worse off. Nero fiddling while Rome burns.
If a large truck turns left on him, I won't be shedding any tears.
cybicle, who were you before you were cybicle?
Or did you just have a long term ba[s]y[/s]n at some point?
Just asking......
Oh, and this;
If a large truck turns left on him, I won't be shedding any tears.
Pathetic. But then, to be expected, I suppose.
I joined this forum a month ago, initially to discuss issues surrounding the accessibility of mountain biking as a sport and activity. Before that? I'm someone with many years experience of cycling in London, and other places. I'm a member of a number of cycling organisations, and work for one which helps promote cycling. I've found this forum to be quite a good place for discussions and debates. I'd like to think I can be a positive contributor to this forum, and cycling in general.
You may find my comments disagreeable, even distasteful Everyone's entitled to their own opinion. I'd be interested to hear yours regarding Boris' recent comments, as I gather from other threads you are a London cyclist too.
Van Halen
are the roads unsafe?i would say cyclists are, in the majority, unsafe.
Are roads unsafe? Considering the accidents we've seen, I'd say so.
WRT your second point, do you mean that cyclists are incapable or that as a cyclist you are in danger?
If you mean that cyclists are dangerous, the accident statistics don't appear to back that up. Over 50% of cycling fatalities were caused by 5% of road traffic (lorries) in London. Also only 6% of accidents were caused by cyclists law breaking. And over all, in more than 50% of cases as is, Cyclists are found to be at no fault in RTA's.
Yet with every crash, with every death the same tired old shpeel is trotted out - "Cyclists behaving dangerously!!"...
Road safety is a separate issue to dangerous bikers. Do people shout "That'll help drunk drivers" when referencing new armco on motorways or extra lanes? Does the discussion even happen? Of course not! But mention cyclists getting killed and the common refrain is "blah blah jumping red lights, blah blah road tax, blah blah lycra". It's dull, its predictable and it's boring.
Time for change. If Boris could act like a grown up for 6 seconds he might actually see the forest for the trees.
Roads themselves aren't inherently unsafe. It's the vehicles that use them that make them so.
Yet with every crash, with every death the same tired old shpeel is trotted out - "Cyclists behaving dangerously!!"...
And little or no mention of the huge several tonne truck or bus that crushed them being dangerous.
Exactly, traffic engineers can't do anything about cyclists doing stupid things. That is not the same thing as blaming the victims here. But I guess it's is easier for DJ to put words into Boris' mouth for effect.
Yes they can.
Yes it is.
Roads themselves aren't inherently unsafe. It's the vehicles that use them that make them so.
And how they use them is influenced by their design.
If the cycle lanes weren't on the left and in front of lorries (where their blind spots are) maybe so may people wouldn't end in the lorries blind spots.
If there weren't so many "pinch points" you wouldn't have to ride in middle of the road to stop close passes.
etc etc etc...
I love Boris. I think hes **** ace compared to what else is on offer.
Boris relies on folk like you, who see his bumbling, smiley, cheeky chappy routine and think he's a harmless bloke with his heart in the right place and a smile and a wink for everyone.
He's not, he's just another sinister Tory and you should hate him.
There are a lot of blue nob cyclist on the roads of London ,had two that have made me crash,a driver crashed into me,taco my front wheel,which I made him give £100,an he dropped me home...nice guy,new set of mavics £110 couple days later.