BKB on holmbury trail building

Hora are you local? I always thought you were northern.

glenp – out of interest do you pay the hurtwood to take your groups on the trails of the hurtwood? as its beginners who generally are causing all this erosion you talk of.

I'm a Yorkshireman 😀 but lived down in London/south for over 10yrs.

hora was well know for his riding skills down here for sometime 😯

I'm still gobsmacked. Uplift for singletrack?

I used to really like the old ending to BKB and was sceptical but the new one is a big improvement IMHO. I've found that tanking down that at full tilt is still quite challenging and always raises a smile. Plus it's always dry and rideable.

Cocking it up is indefensible twattishness really.

If your hardcore there is stuff at Ranmore that will put hairs on your chest. BKB is just a fun way of getting to the teashop for me, I don't really get the idea of "sessioning" the place. I am really getting old I reckon…

I blame the marketing people sexing MTB up to the point where it seems everyone new to the game wants to by a stormtrooper outfit, 8 inch travel bike and pretend to be Josh Bender.

Hora – like me then. Originally from south Manchester (Poynton to be precise) but have lived down here since 1992.

For some reason I've always thought you were associated with a riding group called the South Manchester Massive. I sort of know Julian Winstanley from there (sure he's on here some where – he will likely pop up and refer to me as the 'bunny killer'!) as well as MartynS, whom I was at school with.

What bike do you ride? Likely I will have seen your awesome freeriding skills at some point. (Oh hang on, let me guess, single speed rigid right? STW Hitler :lol:)

We are the only company working with the knowledge, consent and cooperation of the land owner. We give a lot of volunteer time to trail building and maintenance, which we do within the official framework sanctioned by Hurtwood Control. Plus Richard contributes to various other groups, committees and initiatives.

As for beginner erosion – that is something that I'd dispute on many levels.
For starters beginners don't tend to be putting very much energy into their riding in the first place – granted, they might produce the odd accidental skid and help braking bumps to develop, but they don't slam about on massive rigs.
Any beginners that have been to see us will have started to learn a smooth, smart way of riding that is "clean" and safe – our whole system revolves around an intelligent engagement with the bike and places a huge premium on looking ahead for smoother flow and reduced erosion. Nobody, but nobody, is skidding around and causing erosion in my group, no matter how novice.

Looks like some trails might be no longer quite soon anyway
http://hurtwoodranger.wordpress.com/

geetee1972 we will have met at somepoint- I'm sure of it!

There are a few trails that have been either permanently or temporarily put beyond use as a result of the logging that's going on. Resevoir Dogs is one and there was another cut through to RD from the main track up from the resevoir itself (on the left as you go up) that's no longer rideable.

The people who build the trails around there (and more importantly maintain) do a fantastic job. Swoopy and enjoyable

Considering all the politics and compromise that we have to go through I think that the work that has been done on the official stuff (basically Yogurt Pots and BKB so far) has come out pretty decent. Some people would be surprised at the effort that has gone into making them as exciting as they are – there are people in the loop who want them to be less steep, less fast and easier to ride and then there are other contributors who beaver away and try and reassure that a bit of excitement will help stop people digging their own stuff.

The new BKB ending would not have got clearance with jumps in, I can tell you that for certain. As it is we had to fight to get the big exciting berms – without the contribution of enthusiastic volunteers it would have got built with walking pace flat switchbacks. Similarly the Yogurt Pots story could have been different and a lot of that roller-coaster flow would not be there.

If we are to have any chance of extending this work to other places on the Hurtwood then this kind of selfish jump making must stop. There is a real danger that we will lose the confidence of the (very constructive and cooperative at the moment) Hurtwood if we can't get this balance right.

glenp, fair enough that you give back.

But I also dont think the big rigs cause erosion

The idiots were at work on Monday night. The first jump on the trail sent you riders straight towards the tree stump beyond. WTF the 2nd one is about is anyones guess. Did the people that did it really think it would be tolerated? If they have that level of energy it would be nice if they could channel it more positively – may be build a gallows and hang themselves for instance.

Its the slamming style that causes erosion – riding like its a competitive downhill rather than in a smooth, rounded style.

As for big bikes – I think on balance I disagree with you. Whilst it is perfectly possible to ride a big bike smoothly the bike doesn't encourage you to do so. Big aggressive treads give fantastic grip, but it isn't magic. Those tyre knobs are working hard and scratching for grip. Plus speeds can be higher with greater ease, so inevitably more energy goes down into the trail.

Not universally true, but I don't think it is an unfair generalisation to state that big bikes are likely to cause more erosion in the long-run. They give the rider so much help that you need to remind yourself to ride with finesse, whereas a regular trail or xc bike requires finesse from the beginning. Neither is it universally true that smaller bikes are less harsh on the dirt – but on balance I'd associate reduced erosion with "normal" xc bikes ridden smoothly and moderately.

Joolsburger, if you are referring to Numbskull & Abba Zabba at Ranmore then you are right. Now that is proper 'ardcore and scary!

Where abouts on Ranmore? I've done the 3 Lumps Classic route before but never had an explore around there.

Freeridenick – it's not all people on big rigs or all novices that cause the problems (and the two groups are not mutually exclusive). Mostly it's down to technique and understanding or lack of it. Many riders would never consider temselves a novice due to the ammount of time they have been riding or how confident / brave they are or how much there bike cost – doesn't mean they ride well or in a manner that prevents errosion. To give you an idea of people's perception vs reality, last year a survey on Leith Hill saw an amazing 42% of riders described themselves as 'freeriders'. As pointed out earlier in the thread that's mainly down to the mags and the marketing machines of manufacturers – lets face it very few riders call themselves XC riders these days regardless of the terrain they ride for fear others will think they are lycra clad ponces. 15 years ago except for the very the few dh'ers everyone was an XC rider…in 2010 we're all trail riders or free riders(haha) but still ride the same trails(arguably tamer).

i saw BKB uplift days being advertised in the bus stop just before Easter

ha ha ha ha ha ha haaaaaaaaaaaaa ha dee ha ha?

I am indeed. Also the one with that sodding great log jump is pretty hairy, I think that's what snapped my Isis.

Anyway the point is there is stuff you do can do well out of the way that would be nadcore rigsworth to the max or whatever..

What I really like is seeing a little XC guy tearing past a stormtrooper, always raises a smile especially if it's me (to be fair it rarely is).

btw – anyone know who was doing the uplifts?

Uplift day on BKB what next, massage chairs at the top and cowbells? Apparently mine is a freeride bike but that's because I'm a XC lardass and need the strength!!

Its the slamming style that causes erosion

Can you explain what this means?

As well as Ranmore, there is/was some pretty good stuff on Redlands. And then there is the 10ft hipped step down to 15ft gap jump to blind, hipped super short landing step down followed by cool little DH track over on Leith Hill.

Not sure if its the same people that I saw but I was sitting having some tea and cake at the Peaslake village stores a few weeks ago and there was a group of a about 6 or 7 uplifting them selves in a brown transit van fully kitted out, big rigs, body armor and full face, I saw them do 2 or 3 runs with the berk in the van doing 3 point turns outside the shop reversing into the the war memorial.

Who's the old fella, grey balding hair, on the large side, in a big old Range Rover who grumbles around like he owns the place?
Does he own the place?
I've suffered his wrath just for standing on the road in that area in close proximity to a bicycle.

What do you not understand gt?

I remember the time two lads were outside the stores dressed EXACTLY like they were in one of the mtb vids… goggles slung around back of necks, the clothes the bikes – all looked like they had just come out of their new packets. Not like us worn-clothed scruffy types. I remember Ante saying something and one of them shouting something obscene back as they peeled off….I was struck-dumb through stiffling laughter 😆

I keep on seeing fullface dh boys around this area, i think they think BKB is some sort of full on downhill track.

Maybe Howard at Pedal and Spoke in Peaslake may know, that shop seems to attract the rad-core-gnarl-fest riders!

It would appear that the shop opening last year and the appearance of boys on DH rigs in the area are not mutually exclusive.

As it is we had to fight to get the big exciting berms – without the contribution of enthusiastic volunteers it would have got built with walking pace flat switchbacks. Similarly the Yogurt Pots story could have been different and a lot of that roller-coaster flow would not be there.

I'm curious about who you had to fight with to get the berms. Was Hurtwood not that keen? I can imagine switchbacks wouldn't have been exciting. Yoghurt pots has a nice flow to it.

Its all learning, all the time. The volunteer group has a good cross section of riders and in the main we all want the trails to be fast and fun. A swoopy character that can give a (very) little air is part of it, but no-one wants to put a lot of effort into big jumps that only a minority of people are comfortable with. We also don't want anyone to get hurt, its supposed to be fun.

The debate about the berms (and other characteristics, such as general steepness and exact line) was guided by concerns about durability. If you make the trail too steep or hairy then braking will rip it up in no time – then water runs through and roughs it up, which causes more braking… before you know it a hell of a lot of hard work is wasted. Surrey Hills is just a massive pile of sand, so you have to be canny with it. I recon we got the balance just right on BKB – there was quite a lot of scepticism that it wouldn't hold together, but the trail builders held their nerve and were proved correct.

It would appear that the shop opening last year and the appearance of boys on DH rigs in the area are not mutually exclusive.

Maybe but it might also have something to do with this chap:
Bernard Kerr
Apaprently he lives up the road from Peaslake.

GlenP – I was asking what you mean by 'slamming style'. Am worried I am guilty of it! 😳

Sounds like you already know then, gt!

I like it when the bike doesn't make much noise – when the chain is splashing around and the mech is clacking into the chain stay you know the bike is working at right angles to the dirt. Conversely when you barely notice a rider whooshing along and caressing the ground rather than hitting it you usually will find that they are fast and smooth, rather that "rad" and aggressive.

Yep that does makes sense. It's frustrating though because I know that that's not my style. I have got pretty quick (relatively speaking) by being quite aggresive and I'd like to be a lot smoother. The other day I was out with some mates and elected to ride behind them, committing to not pedaling and seeing if I could keep their wheel. It worked so I guess I now need to practice that more.

BTW Glen is that something you can help me with?

I sold Bernard Kerr his first 'proper' bike about 7 years ago, a Trek Bruiser! I didn't realise he'd actually got good until I saw his name about a month ago, weird!

He used to come into the shop regularly having smashed himself/the bike up, I guess that's part of getting good! I'd have thought a European champion DHer is a bit beyond 'sessioning' BKB though, I still reckon a 4" travel XC race bike is as quick as anything down there!

Hang on, did him or his girlfriend used to have access to a Porsche Cayenne?

I saw someone getting uplifts in one of those on BKB a while back. They both looked like they had abit of money!

Look on the bright side at least they are playing outside rather than sat in front of a games console waiting for their next delivery of Miaow Mioaw and planning their next bike theft

That Bernard can ride a bike allright!

Look on the bright side at least they are playing outside rather than sat in front of a games console waiting for their next delivery of Miaow Mioaw and planning their next bike theft

That is true.

I seriously doubt Bernard Kerr was sessioning and building on BKB as well (I think he's built something of his own in a farmer's field somewhere near Peaslake.) I was thinking that he might have a crowd of fans, roadies, wannabes or something that are trying to also get good and that's caused an infux of people looking to get more 'radcore'.