by contrast Walter White was never really likeable for me

This is the key thing, I never found Walter White entirely believable, certainly not particularly likeable at any point in his arc. The other characters are the heart of the series.

The triumph of BCS is that it not only had these other very engaging and well-written characters, but you fully understand (and for much of the arc, sympathise) with the central figure.

Part of me wishes that he dropped Kim in it to reduce his sentence. Would’ve been a good shock way to end the series showing him how nasty he had become

Yeah I thought that was where they were heading for a moment, would have rang a bit false for me but I bet they seriously considered it.

Bloody hell these last 2 episodes are dragging on…. i may fall asleep here.

This is the key thing, I never found Walter White entirely believable, certainly not particularly likeable at any point in his arc. The other characters are the heart of the series.

Breaking Bad was never very believable, it was all contrived to show a guy turning into a monster. At the beginning, Walt was somewhat sympathetic, but quite pathetic and Hank seemed like an asshole. However, we saw a glimpse of Walt’s nasty side when he beat up the kids who were mocking Walt Jr. Jesse Pinkman was supposed to only be around for the first season and then get killed by Tuco, but he was the perfect contrast with Walt. I can’t imagine the show without those two bickering. When Hank got killed, you saw the contrast between him and Walt. Walt was pathetic and contemptible, Hank was a decent guy who was a bit of a blowhard. Jesse was basically a nice kid who got out of his depth and tried to do the right thing, but too late.

I enjoyed the episode but felt the final ending was a bit flat. I liked the way Gene comes alive as he goes full ‘Saul’ as he starts to bargain, showing how Jimmy/Saul/Gene was not, an could not ever be Gene really. Loved the straight after was Jimmy with Chuck, Jimmy being the kind and caring brother he really wants to be, just after some respect from big bro, but then the scene reveals how Jimmy has come to terms that Chuck will never give that and shows that Jimmy had at that point accepted he needed to be Saul.

As for liking Saul…I liked Jimmy yes. Jimmy had flawed slippin’ jimmy but it always felt like that ws his response to circumstances and failure to get chucks respect even hen due. Saul was just a transformed slippin’ jmmy for me….real Jimmy got surpressed/killed by the events we’ve seen. I even liked Saul, largely as he had great comedy value and despite being a key part of the Salamanca empire, Fring empire and Walter White empire he always felt to me like just a facilitator …while also doing stuff to support th little guy and stick it to the authorities. Until yesterday. that last episode painted Saul as the king pin…Walt was part of his empire… Saul had choices. limited perhaps but Saul used walt at least as much as walt used Saul. Although one thing I liked about BB and BCS was how all the main characters get beaten up by events and you see how it moulds them into being tougher and tougher and nastier and eventually without morals.

I kinda liked how Saul came undone and eventually gave it all up..’Its all Gone/Saul Gone’ very apt. He accepted being Jimmy, renamed himself James McGill and killed Saul for good…or 86 years at least! I just wasn’t quite sure if slippin’ Jimmy was also dead at the same moment.

Anyway, feels like a re-watch of BB aside, the Alberqurque universe is now done, tied up and put to bed.

I’m just reaching the end of Breaking Bad rewatch, enjoying the references between shows. I thought Kim was going to turn out as the mastermind behind an ongoing Meth gang after appearing outside Saul’s office with Jessie, but no.

Anyway, feels like a re-watch of BB aside, the Alberqurque universe is now done, tied up and put to bed.

I’m not ready for that. Rather, I need to binge watch the entirety of BCS in one hit in the way that I first saw the entirety BB in one hit

Re-watched El Camino the other night. That gets better with every viewing just as BB does.

the Alberqurque universe is now done, tied up and put to bed.

I don’t think they can wring much more out of it. I was relieved that BCS ended up being decent, when it was announced I half expected it would be disappointing. I don’t think a show based around pre-BB Mike would be very interesting. Maybe a comedy spin off with Skinny Pete and Badger trying to stay out of rehab and jail might work.

I don’t think a show based around pre-BB Mike would be very interesting

Wrong, it would be amazing because he’s Mike.

We were mainly joking about the reverse ageing in the Breaking Bad Televisual Universe though.

I hope Jonathan Banks (Mike actor) has already been signed-up for a gritty western about an ageing gunslinger who has to come out of retirement for one last job. Or maybe a gritty thriller about an ageing hitman who has to come out of retirement for one last job. I’m not fussy.

nooo! it would end up like Tucker’s luck. that comment will fly over the head of anyone under ~48

how about a young grad student walt, being deceived by the blacks and maneuvred out of grey industries? there’s material there for a couple of episodes

Sauls confession does nothing to stop a civil suit against Kim, so I’m not sure what Saul gained. Seemed more like a brag than redemption. ‘So you’ve always been that way’ as Walt said. In fact I’m surprised Kims affidavit wasn’t used against Saul.

I liked the ‘Better Call Saul’ scene on the bus, shows he still had respect even in jail. For me a better redemption arc would have been for Saul to go to prison, and start to help out others let down by the legal system, which over the next decade connects him back to Kim who is also helping others.

how about a young grad student walt, being deceived by the blacks

I really hope there were characters named Black in BB?

have I got the name wrong? I thought the owners of the big corp that walt resented were the blacks, and the grey industry name was from the white and black surnames? have I got my details all mixed up? Anyway, names aside, there remains a bit of material there

I really hope there were characters named Black in BB?

Their name was Schwarz, they owned Grey Matter (White plus Schwarz gives grey). So you had Walter White, Elliot and Gretchen Schwarz, and Jesse Pinkman. Plus, each major BB character had specific colours associated with them.

I thought the finale was good but it didn’t really land with me too much for some reason. I think I need to rewatch it as I keep missing some of these details, even the obvious ones like the 3 flashbacks (Mike/Walt/Chck)being a parallel to the 3 ghosts in A Christmas Carol.

There is no redemption arc – he hasn’t changed, he has no regrets, he’ll be fine in Jail because everyone loves him there, in fact he will be in his element, its all about him getting the respect that his brother and Howard never gave him, and which is why he had to destroy Howard.

Interesting theory Nick, believable. 👍

Yep, you could see his demeanour shift once he realised he was “the man” to his fellow inmates.

A thought I had this morning was that, for Saul, the attractions of remaining at large must be limited at this point. He’s tried the “living quietly” in black and white, working Cinnabon, being a nice guy. And it’s massively boring. So, maybe let the hammer fall. Beat the prosecution just to show them you can. Make the grand gesture for the love you can’t forget but can’t ever really have. Then off to a new world with, no doubt, its own power structures to climb, its own intrigues, its own grifts.

I think being Gene was like being in prison anyway. He had tried to spice things up with some scams , but ultimately he had no life outside of work.
I also think he realised that he could never have Kim in the way he wanted again, and realised that if he was released after 7 years , then he had nothing to live for.
At least inside he could have a life.

And if they wanted to they could have a life behind bars spin off 😉

Christmas carol ghosts link seems tenuous, they were all three ghosts of Alberqurque past.

AHH yes Schwartz, thanks thols

Well it’s over.
Saul is going rule that prison and that’s why he picked it
It was great tv better than BB for me much more depth in the story line. Kim as a character was able to grow and the show was so much better for it the whole sandpiper stuff could have just been watered down over the duration of the show.
Netflix have openly said they are not chucking money at any ol script now so it could be the last of kind show, slow burning and going off to follow other plots within plots I don’t recall the first episodes being so popular. 10/10 from me

I’m going to binge it all again I’ve got gaps that’s neec filling in the story line.

Thinking of re watching BB now, has anyone seen an intertwined viewing? like the Star Wars Machette order, where you watch few of BB then some BCS due to the dove tailing timelines?

It only really runs parallel in the final BCS series, and that’s only via a time jump about halfway through. Hank Schrader briefly pops up a bit earlier.

BCS also flirts with post-BB stuff (Omaha Gene) within pre-BB episodes, so it would be hard to watch it chronologically.

Glowing fag end – Cinematographic masterpiece along with the void between the fences.

Kim Wexler one of the greatest characters in TV history. When old confident Kim turned up to the clink in post-Florida brunette (or was it black we’ll never know) it sent a shiver down my spine.

I have just started watching Breaking Bad again. I don’t remember films/TV much so although I remember the jist of it and remember how good it gets so it is still great to watch.

Is it just me, in the final scenes where he’s in the prison kitchen, he’s gone from Breaking Bad to Baking Bread, or am I reading too much into that. If that’s intentional, it’s absolute genius

Intentional or not, it’s a genius spot by you !!

I started watching BB again a few weeks back and just about to finish while watching the end of BCS too. Something doesn’t make sense…

In the final of BCS the colour / real time part where Mike and Saul are on the run with the bags of cash. I’ve forgotten at what point they were escaping, but…

I can’t work out the spoiler tag so don’t read on of you haven’t watched BB.

[Spoiler]

In BB S5 E8? Mike is shot by Walt and dies.

Meanwhile Saul hasn’t gone on the run with his cash yet.

So how do these things relate?

[/spoiler]

the desert trek is years before walter white

Is it? Crikey. I feel like I need to watch a good chunk of BCS again, dam my memory.

They were not on the run, weren’t they carrying Lalo’s bail money after getting hijacked and Mike killing the hijackers?

someone help me with US geography/names…

The prison he ends up in, is that the nice one he wanted from his plea bargain, or the one he was scared of going to?

It’s the one he was ‘scared’ of going to, but was his plan all along as he knew a lot of the crims he represented were there (imo)

BCS was amazing. The ending could have been a massive plot twist or some stupid contrived thing to promote another spin-off. But it wasn’t, it just finished the story. Which is exactly what it needed to do.

And yeah, the last scene with Kim in the prison gave me goosebumps.

Is it just me, in the final scenes where he’s in the prison kitchen, he’s gone from Breaking Bad to Baking Bread, or am I reading too much into that. If that’s intentional, it’s absolute genius

I took that as a simile of his fall from grace. Lawyer (/ ‘cooking’ meth I suppose) –> Cinnabon –> Prison Kitchen. He was using things he’d learnt in his time as Gene to improve his lot and do something nice for the other inmates; the time as Gene wasn’t completely wasted.

I’ve just caught up. Agree with most of what’s been said here. But especially all of this, Tom beat me to it.

The last two episodes had some absolutely fantastic acting. The bus scene, as was already mentioned, was absolutely electric. And the “I was afraid” sequence during the plea bargaining where Saul flips from one persona to another on a sixpence was incredible.

In terms of the ending and the long sentence, I wasn’t sure how much of that was set up by Saul. He mentioned the prison he ended up in as somewhere he *didn’t* want to go — could this have been reverse psychology? On the way into the prison the other inmates on the bus are chanting his catchphrase, maybe he realised he’d be among friends in some sense.

A thought I had this morning was that, for Saul, the attractions of remaining at large must be limited at this point. He’s tried the “living quietly” in black and white, working Cinnabon, being a nice guy. And it’s massively boring. So, maybe let the hammer fall. Beat the prosecution just to show them you can. Make the grand gesture for the love you can’t forget but can’t ever really have. Then off to a new world with, no doubt, its own power structures to climb, its own intrigues, its own grifts.

The speech in the plea-bargaining was Saul demonstrating that he was still alpha male, that he was better than all of them, that he could take them apart with his eyes closed and his ego needed them to know it.

In the courtroom, he’d already manipulated things for Kim and Mrs Hank to be there – he dragged Shraeder into the room to hear his fake plea and he knew Kim would be tipped off. He’d planted the seeds as to where he wanted to be by telling that was absolutely where he didn’t want to be, knowing they’d stick him there out of spite.

Why? He knew he was going down regardless and even for ‘only’ seven years he’d have been bored shitless. We saw this with the Cinnabon arc, he had the opportunity for a nice quiet life but Slippin’ Jimmy just couldn’t help himself. At the other prison though… well that’s an opportunity. He’s forged a career out of keeping lowlifes out of prison when no-one else would give them the steam off their piss, he’s a goddamn hero to them and he knew it. At the ice-cream prison he’s nobody, at ADX he can be a kingpin. Remember the line to… was it Bob who asked him “where do you see this ending?” and he replies “with me on top, as always.” Exactly what happened. fistbumps

Kim, well, eh. He probably did love her, in his own way. But Saul’s primary concern was always Saul. I think that was the point of the “regrets” scene, out of everything the only thing he regretted (or at least, admitted to) was something that affected him directly.

They’ll go back to 1984, his life as a cop when he took his first bribe.

What you did there. I see it.

Oops, missed this entire page 6. Reading now.

My take is that Kim always brought out the best in Jimmy/Saul. So when he saw her he tried to do the right thing. Her leaving him was his downfall as an okish person.

Finally watched the last episode. I’ve not been hugely impressed with this last series, personally. It felt like it had a lot of filler. But, the entire thing felt a bit like that for me.

I had planned on moving straight back onto BB, but I’m very unlikely now.

I had planned on moving straight back onto BB, but I’m very unlikely now.

You should, I have just finished season 2 of rewatching BB and it is as good as I remember. Interesting that my memory completely condenses 5 seasons into a number of key moments while forgetting everything in between. Yes I can remember what happens at the end but that doesn’t detract from it.