What do you folks think the best and most secure/reliable hardtail singlespeed dropout setup is?

-normal bolt thru geared dropout with a tensioner (probably a SB One clutch tensioner)

-10mm horizontal dropout, with 10mm bolted axle

-sliding dropouts (Paragon style)

Normal dropout I imagine is most secure, but doesn’t look as neat and a bit noisier with the tensioner.

Horizontal is the most simple and if it’s secure enough for track riders, it should be good enough for MTB!?

Sliding dropouts seem great, but I’ve had a couple of paragon style dropouts over the years and found they slip and creak slightly.

EBB?

You’ve missed off the best one, as mentioned above, EBB

Not an option unfortunately.

Depends on the context. If it’s a new frame, EBB is probably great, as the larger BB shell means more space for a sensible-sized EBB.

Otherwise, horizontal dropouts, but you have to have matching horizontal disc brake bosses, and adjust the rear brake whenever you tweak the rear axle. Cotic and/ or On-One had them for a while IIRC

Normal with a bb mounted tensioner.

I always used to say sliding dropouts or an EBB, but I’ve come to like track ends for being able to easily run a dinglespeed.

Horizontal dropouts are the worst option, IME. And I can’t really see why you’d choose to use a tensioner, but then I’ve never used thru-axles.

Proper sliding, boost, bolt thru axle, with attached sliding brake bosses.

Trackends as per BMX and track bikes.

Some people seem to have issues with her disc brakes but it’s more incompetence.

Its not incompetence on my part i just much prefer an ebb.

And ut looks neat.

As ta11pau1 suggests, never had an issue with my Unit.

A fixed dropout with a Bushnell or good pinch-bolt EBB. And I quite like simple, solid track ends even with a disc brake. Just do the axle nuts up tight and all’s well.

If it’s got to be a moving parts dropout I’d go for a Black Cat swinger type, the design Salsa use.

Horizontal rail slider types put the axle too far out on a cantilever, I’ve seen a couple of those types deform and fail as well as them putting more stress on the stay to dropout welds. Plenty of them out there going strong of course but it’s not the best solution imo.

Thanks for the replies, EBB is not an option that’s available.
I would prefer to avoid sprung or ISCG style tensioners for a cleaner look, but will have one if required.

The sliding dropouts do seem the easiest to set up option, but like I mentioned I have had minor issues with slipping before (not enough to be a big problem with dropped chains, more an annoyance).

Thanks for the replies

Actually i’ll go left field.

Any drop out plus a ghost chainring please.

Niche.

I’ve got the Swinger 2 dropouts on my new incoming Pivot Les. Those are pretty solid.

You all missed the sexiest option that is rocker dropouts.

Cheers!
I.

Had horizontal dropouts (‘track ends’) with a chain tug on my mk 2 Scandal with a 10 mm bolt up rear hub, no issues with slippage but had to align the rear brake calliper separately which was a bit of a faff and the chain tension had be to be reset each time the wheel was removed and fitted. Had some issues with creaking were the dropouts bolted to the frame.

Currently got a Chameleon which has swinging adjustable dropouts with a through-axle hub. The rear brake calliper moves with the wheel so its always aligned. Can take the rear wheel out and refit without affecting the brake calliper or chain tension too. No issues with slippage or creaking. This is the best option in my opinion. EBB’s in my experience slip and creak, are less easy to adjust and affect the seat height and bottom bracket height when adjusting.

The Strangehold rear dropouts on the Trek Checkpoint look good.

IvanMTB – Rocker or Swinger, same thing – or at least here it is…

Another leftfield option is an eccentric hub, but I’m not sure if they exist in boost and if you’ve got the option to choose swinging/sliding dropouts I’d take that.

I’ve never had creaking, or indeed any other problems, from my eccentric hub, but I’d only choose it as a retrofit on a vertical dropout frame.

I’ve also got a frame with the sliding dropouts with attached brake mount as pictured above, which gives me no trouble. My gut feel I think would be to take swinging dropouts per Chameleon over them, all else being equal, but it’s marginal.

I quite like variations on horizontal with a bolt in hub / nutted axle.

Current favourite is a short horizontal slot with closed ends. Hope 135mm axle with 10mm bolts so the wheel just drops out vertically.

thanks again for the replies, gives me more to think about.

mick_r, the dropouts from the top picture look fantastic, so neat

Thanks!

They are just laser cut blanks and some simple lathe work. 2 parts brazed together before brazing to the frame. If you are having something made I can send the CAD file.

The curved disc tabs are an idea stolen from Bianchi USA. Slot lengths are roughly 2:1 axle adjustment to caliper movement.

Rocker or Swinger, same thing

I would not call rockers swingers and in my eyes definitely not the same thing, but I guess close enough 😀

Cheers!
I.

If I was going with thru-axle I’d just go chain tensioner. Looks nicer without, but for me the appeal of an SS is simplicity, reliability and weight rather than looks. A SS bike makes it worth getting some weight weenie parts where on a geared bike they wouldn’t make much difference. (Yes I know a tensioner weighs something).

Mates’ bikes with adjustable dropouts run geared and SS have always slipped.

If using QR, I find track ends work fine with a good Shimano QR. This is making me regret selling my Cotic Simple…

BUT… If using drop bars with cable discs I’d want an adjustable dropout that also had the brake mount on it, as the brakes are enough faff to set up effectively in the 1st place and pads need to be pretty f’in close

EBB – the dogs bollocks
Salsa Alternator – a close second
Track ends – nice and simple, adjusting the brake really isnt a problem, and tubeless has largely eliminated the need to take the wheel out anyway.

Those rockers look cool too.

I’ve no experience with proper Paragon made sliding dropouts but Kona uses a fairly similar design, never had it slip or creak. I thought this design, used in conjunction with adjustment bolt and lock nut, made slipping impossible. I notice the Paragon bolts/hardware look much smaller than on a Kona so maybe that leads to problems?

My experience with EBBs is they slip, but not enough to cause a problem if adjusted regularly.

There’s less parts with a 2 bolt EBB and it’s impossible to insert your wheel out of alignment.

SS is all about KISS.

All those fancy technical bits for adjusting at the the rear end are much less elegant.

I understand the love – especially with how simple it keeps the rear wheel. But personally I hate ebbs. Sorry.

I don’t want to move my feet relative to bars and saddle just to change ratio or adjust chain wear.

They only have a very limited range of adjustment compared to full track dropouts.

Heavy.

Some can and do creak.

The tiny gaps of the various expander systems love to ingest mud by capillary action. So you have to strip and clean before adjusting.

Some have proprietary parts (expander threads) with tiny hex head holes that round easily and you need difficult to find replacements.

Seized bb’s can end up stuck in the ebb which then spins in the frame.

We even had one gradually creep sideways (Mrs didn’t notice so the chainring bolts machined a groove in the chainstay).

If I was building with one it would only be a simple 2 bolt one like epicyclo uses. I’m finished with all the other types.

I don’t want to move my feet relative to bars and saddle just to change ratio or adjust chain wear.

I get this Mick, but I was suprised when I started using an EBB that it really didn’t bother me. I always thought bike fit is important but aside from height the saddle to pedal relationship seems a bit wooly on an MTB. I noticed the change in RC when using track ends more, still adjusted to it soon enough but when changing ratio it was enough to make the bike feel odd. Conclusion was, for an MTB, a fixed bar to rear axle was more important to how the fit/handling worked overall than the BB to rear axle. Which I’m not sure about – but that was how it felt. I mean, neither are make or break… just how it felt from riding at the time.
I’ve stuck with the same ratio all the time since I got the EBB bike sorted so the adjustments are in a quite small range now, would be unlikely to notice much on either system, not after 15 mins riding anyway.

IvanMTB, they both pivot above the the axle so mechanically, to me, they’re the same solution. The Paragon adds another fixing bolt over the Black Cat / Salsa design. But I’m just being a SS and dropout nerd here rather than really caring what we call them : )

I had a genesis ioid with horizontal dropouts and slotted disc mounts. In practice because the caliper was held at the top of the disc once set up small adjustments of the wheel did not need the disc adjusting as the geometry mean no real difference in disc to pad relationships

Sliding / swinging dropouts add another weakness into the chainstays and as such must add weight and potential for flex / misalignment

I’ve always used Paragon sliders with no problems. I do swap out the supplied bolts though as the ones they ship with seem to be made of cheese.

@mick_r – Bit of a cheeky ask but do you have a drawing for the brake positioning guide you would be able to share? I’ve been meaning to make one for years but never seem to get around to doing it.

mick_r
..I don’t want to move my feet relative to bars and saddle just to change ratio or adjust chain wear….

I don’t see that as a problem on a SS mtb.

My observation is that SS riders spend very little time in a fixed position and use more body movements more than other riders.

This came home to me when I did an extended road ride on the same bike I use in the 24 hour. It has a hard minimal saddle and I usually feel no discomfort from it, but when I had a two hour easy spin on the road to get to a track, my arse was blazing.

I realised I don’t usually spend that much time just sitting in the one position.

I don’t want to move my feet relative to bars and saddle just to change ratio or adjust chain wear

Also, the EBB only moves ~1mm over the life of a chain. And a max of +/-6mm from the neutral position so it’s not really an issue. As Jameso noted, changing sprockets with track ends seems more noticeable, I assumed because you’re lengthening the wheelbase and chainstay at the same time, whereas an EBB only alters the position of the BB within the wheels, or perhaps because an EBB requires you to adjust the chain length whereas track ends I can get away with huge changes in gear ratio/stay length.

Sliding / swinging dropouts add another weakness into the chainstays and as such must add weight and potential for flex / misalignment

A lot of frames now use replaceable dropouts anyway with no noticeable flex or weakness.

Much easier to align than track ends too as you just get it right once, then loosen bolt, turn the adjuster and nip up the bolt again, as long as you keep track of how many flats you adjust each side it’s always perfectly aligned.

Epicyclo’s point is probably why it doesn’t bother me yet I would have expected it to – if I rode the bike geared and on the road and adjusted the EBB much (to experiment) I might be bothered more by it. I also don’t like ‘sweet spot’ saddles and prefer shapes that I can sit fore or aft on in comfort, so my seated position probably has more +/- than the EBB range.

I think a tensioner makes most sense though… They don’t look great but a quality one with a large jockey wheel could be better all-round. Should be lighter, there’s no geometry changes (whether we are bothered by them or not) and no moving parts in high force areas. The only potential negative is how it’d handle the mud that my SS otherwise copes with so well.

I honestly get why people like ebbs – just nobody was mentioning they can also have some issues. I’d actually find it easier making ebb frames (eg no extra mitre where seat tube and down tube overlap).

If you have a ratio mid way through the adjustment range, then it is interesting to play running it above / below centre. I certainly noticed pedal strikes ss round Laggan in the “low” position.

Jonm81 – I’ll try and dig the drawing out. Do you want a dxf file to get one cut? If you want one ready to go then I can get one zapped out next time I send some profiles. Would be foc plus post.

I’ve used track ends, several different tensioners, swinger dropouts and for a long time a riding mate had an ebb. The swinger dropouts (Santa Cruz) have far and away been the least faff of the lot, then track ends, tensioner and ebb in that order.

The Santa Cruz is the neglected winter mtb and in the four or so years I’ve had it I’ve only touched the dropouts once aside from tensioning- that was because I thought I should check rather than because there was actually anything wrong.

Bog standard 142 x 12 (or boost if you must) dropout with a BB mounted tensioner for me please. There’s no buggering about re-tensioning the chain if you have to fetch the wheel out for whatever reason and the caliper doesn’t need to be adjusted for the different wheels I use. Plus it gives a bit more chain wrap so there’s little chance of the chain bouncing off (cos I use my bike for being crap at DH as well as bimbling). I get that others’ mileage may vary though.

I have had 4 different types of EBBs over the years and none were perfect. Adjusting them is usually a faff, they can creak and the fact the bottom bracket centre moves around when adjusting it is not great. Saying that the Bushnell lightweight one was the best of the four.
I much prefer the simple track end and after 20 years of using them have never had a wheel slip once but then I don’t have to bother with a rear brake so the whole thing is far easier for me.