Any ideas,
Have twatted mine and need something a bit beefier, think mine are Mavic XM-719’s.

What does the good world of STW think?

Thanks

Stans Flow EX

WTB i25 seem pretty good, and half the price of stans.

2nded on flow ex

3rd Flow EX…but Arch EX and Flow (non-EX) would also do

Are Flows actually beefier than 719s though? I really like mine but they are arguably not as tough as the 819/719s they replaced. Dunno if EX are stronger?

Flow EXs are stronger than Flows.

Another vote here for Flow EXs!

Mavic EN521 for me – had the same set since about 2007, Alps, Whistler, BPW, all trail centres, Brecon, local woods, to the shops and back, everything – not a single dent or failure.

I should add I’m 16st and lack any sort of finesse.

Are Flows actually beefier than 719s though?

Yeah, before Flow EX came out, Flow were the ‘go to’ AM rim. Decent internal width of 22.6mm on the Flow but at the same weight as the 719. Mine have done several Alps trips and only have a couple of dings. Really rate them

Flow EXs are stronger than Flows.

Same profile as Flow just wider so how are they stronger then?

well, it depends.

stans are wider for the same weight as the equivalent mavic, and the cool cats will tell you the Mavic haven’t progressed, and their rims are the same profile, and they’re too narrow, blah blah blah…

Wheel strength is pretty much down to spoke tension, and all things being equal you’re as likely to ding your stans rim as you are the 719 rim you just bust, so in reality, as long as the build is OK, for most riding it doesn’t really matter.

upsides to stans: bit lighter, better profile
downsides to stans: no eyelets, it bothers some people, others not so much (make sure spoke tension is within limits and you’re probably going to be OK)

upsides to Mavic: tried and tested
downsides: probably a bit narrow

In the true tradition of STW: Pick a side and be a dick about it. 😆

EX721 are tougher than Flows and Flow EXs. I use them on my hardtail, which takes a battering. Very tough rim.

Flow EXs are stronger than Flows.

Same profile as Flow just wider so how are they stronger then?[/quote]

I can’t find the info on the Stan’s site now, since Flow’s have been discontinued, but I seem to remember they were marketed as a stronger “evolution” of the Flow rim.

Since they’ve kept the same profile as a Flow just wider, a bit heavier and have now replaced the Flow rim I would hope they are stronger! Also from my own experience of owning both rims I found the Flow EX to be the more robust rim.

Hammered my non EX flows for a couple of years now including a couple of weeks in the Alps, and they’re still going straight and strong, with no truing. So +1 for Flow or Flow EX

The non-Ex flows didn’t have internal vertical walls like the Ex rims do – gives a lot more strength for a very minor weight gain

Pick a side and be a dick about it.

Ha Ha, bit close to the truth.

I’m just building a WTB i25 and it looks great, similar weight to a Flow ex. Hammered a Stan’s on a waterbar on Exmoor, didn’t really survive. I am a bit of an animal with wheel though. I’ll keep you posted on how it lasts.

The non-Ex flows didn’t have internal vertical walls like the Ex rims do – gives a lot more strength for a very minor weight gain

You what?

Flow and Flow EX…

FWIW the i25 does have a vertical “I” beam like support through the centre.

It’s all a bit relative- because there’s strong, and then there’s tough. Stans aren’t tough, they dent far easier than most Mavics so day to day, 719s seem stronger. But dents aren’t that big a deal, my 719s cracked to buggery at the eyelets whereas the Flows looked battered but kept working even when used harder for longer (ok, eventually I cracked a flow at the valve, but that was on my dh bike). I think Mavic are hard but brittle, Stans are soft but durable.

In a similiar vein- I got less life out of a Flow Ex, because it took a big flatspot that meant tyres burst off the rim. Again, on the dh bike so I won’t complain- but I’m reasonably sure the taller sidewall of the old Flow would have meant it still worked.

I’d second the WTBs btw- the i25 is a bit heavier than a Flow but seems tougher. Otherwise very similiar. I got mine just because it was cheap but it’s really impressed me (I ended up riding a big chunk of a la thuile descent on a flat rear, and it hasn’t taken so much as a bruise- I didn’t nurse it down either. I’ve nothing against the Flows, they did really well but I think if I was buying metal rims tomorrow I’d try another WTB. Or, possibly an 821.

Nuke: My bad – clearly my brain is playing tricks on me today. More coffee required I think.

Deviating from the original topic a little… nuke, I’m interested to know what makes you think the flow ex is not stronger than the flow

I’ve got a set of synchros dp25s on hope proii I need to sell, in white! Freshish bearings and despite my best efforts utterly unbreakable for last few years. Just saying….

nuke, I’m interested to know what makes you think the flow ex is not stronger than the flow

You covered it yourself in a roundabout way…

Since they’ve kept the same profile as a Flow just wider, a bit heavier and have now replaced the Flow rim I would hope they are stronger!

So you agree its the same profile but wider. Wider accounts for the weight increase of the ex…so assuming same material, aside hoping they are and the fact the Flow EX have superseded the Flow, why do you think flow ex are stronger? Imo simply being wider is not going to make them stronger.

Personally i think the advantages in the EX range be it Arch or Flow was the better tyre support/profile through changes to the bead hook and increased width and not about changing the strength of the rim

Flow EXs are stronger than Flows.

Same profile as Flow just wider so how are they stronger then?

They were redesigned with more material around the nipple beds which allows for more spoke tension, pretty sure they upped it from 100kgf to 125kgf, you can see they’re thicker in that comparison photo above.

721s would be a good choice if you’re a hard rider.

The new hope enduro ones look quite burly but I’ve not ridden them.

Or, possibly an 821

Have been rather underwhelmed by mine. They have fancy pants attachments for spokes and are too narrow. On top of that they dent like buggery on the rear. They are a bit lighter than my 521’s but are no where near as strong and don’t give as nice a profile. They are not as good as flows either I don’t think. They are brilliant for tubeless and look really nice.

Mavic EN 321 or EN 521…… Bomb proof from my experience and good value for the money and work fine ghetto tubeless ie gorilla tape method. If you can get some Fulcrum Red Zones they too have been brilliant and UST rims.

duir – Member

Have been rather underwhelmed by mine. They have fancy pants attachments for spokes and are too narrow. On top of that they dent like buggery on the rear.

Oh, what a bummer- so all the downsides of classic Mavic without the pluses 🙁

321’s here with no issues

I have the i23s in 29″ flavour on my HT and they have been battered into Lake District rocks for a year and are fine.

When I’m looking to get some 26″ wheels for my 456 I’ll be looking at i25’s for sure.