Looking to get a van for general duties but also something that will work well for long drives to France etc and a bit of camping. We do not want to sleep in the van.

It just needs to be big enough for two adult, 2 kids, a dog, 4 bikes (on tow bar when driving, in van when staying overnight) and a load of stuff.

VW transporter with captain chairs up front so we can swing round and have a family meal on the road is ideal.

But i don’t want to pay the ‘scene tax’

Will I find a Ford Transit Custom or Renault Traffic etc that will do the job. Or do I just need to suck up the ‘scene tax’ and get a VW.

Budget is fairly flexible but ideally under £25k and hopefully around 4 years old or younger with less than 50k on the clock…

I’ve ordered a Dispatch LWB for just slightly over your budget….decided to go for a new one as SH prices are ridiculous for all vans and I can wait 6 months. Same van as the Vivaro/Proace etc.
I’ve had plenty of VW vans and don’t feel they justify the premium. Those folk who I’ve spoken to who have the T6 aren’t too pleased with them. Think VWs peaked at the T4.

Transits are highly rated BTW.

The EMP2 vans (Citroen, Peugeot, Vauxhall, Toyota – 2016 on) are worth a look. That platform is more modern, various lengths available and bits like seat swivels easy to get, but no VW scene tax. They all make proper window/passenger versions too, normally 8/9 seats but just remove the rear row.

The VW Transporter Shuttle is often cheaper than vans/kombis too, trades don’t want them with windows and the camper crowd usually want a basic van for ease of poptop etc fitting.

As a biased T6 owner, don’t forget about total actual cost, ie incl depreciation, rather than pure purchase cost

Although covid might have thrown things up in the air

Vito?

Yeah avoid the T5/6. Assembled by donkeys who think BL made vehicles well. Engineering is also somewhat flawed (cheap bits like water pumps, suspension bushes fail causing big bills, bigger output engines are overstretched, our doors have randomly started to fail to unlock).

ENP2s are pretty good. They’re noticing narrower than the VW. Driving experience is ok. Only thing that lets them down are the rear seats, which I reckon are too low to the ground. Some of the space tourer versions come with 4 captains seats and a bench which is what you’d want I think.

Vito / V-class aren’t being made currently, boosting second hand values beyond scene tax.

Couldn’t you get all that stuff in a galaxy or gran tourneo connect? The latter is available brand new in that price range (and a new one has just come out)..

ENP2. Huh??????

Couldn’t you get all that stuff in a galaxy or gran tourneo connect?

Possibly, but not the rotating seats, and the four bikes, plus dog, plus luggage overnight starts getting tight.

FWIW, I managed to book places for overnights with gated courtyards, garage or hidden corners which I then backed bike rack up against, saving need to take bikes indoors.

I’ve just stumped up a giant pile of cash for a shiny new VW highline, so you’d think I might be biased. But no, I fully acknowledge they are way overrated and I can’t fathom quite why folk go so daft over them.
For me, it’s a work van, and was the best fit for my needs.
I’ve just got rid of a Peugeot expert 180 auto, one of the early EMP2 bought new five years ago.
I’d have got another, but the configuration I need is no longer available, and the price has risen massively.

Compared to the VW, it drives marginally nicer, but any recent van is pretty luxurious really in comparison to older stuff. Reliability wise, thye are all much of a muchness it seems.

The scene tax makes sense in a way, as you get it back on selling. For that mo

Would an estate car not do the same job? Save some cash…

A Transit Custom DCIV (double-cab in van) would work. Suffering from scene tax now too but not as badly as VWs, you should be able to find what you’re looking for within that budget – we paid £23k new 4.5yrs ago for our Limited spec L2 but I’m aware prices are higher now.

We factory ordered to get the spec we wanted: tailgate, towbar, a pack that included leccy drriver’s seat adjustment, leather seats and side airbags, and a single passenger seat. Can’t get swivel seats from factory, I added the swivel plates myself.

Drives nicely but quite obviously still a van. I moved from an older T5 with daft lowered suspension so hard to compare directly, but the Transit rides well enough.

L2 rather than L1 helps a lot for bike carrying capacity in a dual-cab Transit. Extra long bike 1340mm WB goes in straight with front wheel off but not on.

Some issues with the ‘wet belt’ on the 2.0 euro6 engined ones which appeared in mid-2017 but generally OK reliability. Our belt was deemed fine under a recall check.

by ‘scene tax’, do people mean the laws of supply and demand?

by ‘scene tax’, do people mean the laws of supply and demand?

Nope. There’s a perceived (by some) value to the VW badge which translates to higher prices. Other makes have caught up and gone beyond, but because they don’t look so cool with a fake hibiscus chain hanging from the rear view mirror and a ‘one life…’ sticker on the back, folk don’t over-inflate the prices of other makes as much. It harks back to folk buying into the DNA of the old bay window vans I think.

So there is a demand….

whether you agree with that demand is irrelevant.

L200 with a hardtop?

I am on my second, now S5 Barbarian 2017 since almost new and a previous 2005 Warrior for 13 years.

I have done all sorts driving about Europe and the UK, mostly with bikes, kids, dog (in a nice spacious cage/bed with everything packed about her), camping. We are off to Switzerland in the summer, 4x mtb’s on the roof and 2 or 3 racers inside and luggage (no dog). I love driving my L200 long distances tbh

Its also my daily driver and was the family car for over a year when the wife bought her Mustang. Now waiting for an EV Merc in the summer so its the only car we have. Its tall and long but not wider than a Volvo Est. Wife doesnt mind driving it at all.

I’ve driven various vans recently for work and the only 2 I would buy to own long term would be the VW Transporter or the Mercedes Vito. The rest even full of toys don’t compare.

I agree the VW has issues and is overpriced especially 2nd hand but they are great vans. The Mercedes is well built, solid but a bit heavy on the fuel.

I love driving my L200 long distances tbh

i had to drive one of our works trucks a 140 mile round trip last week, couldnt wait to get out. noisy, slow, shocking visibility and I didn’t even look at the fuel economy, just glad someone else was paying.

I’ve a 2012 VW Caravelle which I use as our bike bus and my daily. Can carry 6 passengers in comfort, or 4 passengers with two road bikes inside (front wheels off with fork mounts in the tracks) and 2-4 on the rear. I also use it to sleep in at Motorsports events, taking an awning tent if theres the two of us, or just sleeping in the back (seats fold pretty flat). I’ve also used it with the second row of seats removed to transport furniture and rubbish (had a 3-piece suite in), so it doubles as a van. The rear bench can also be removed apparently but its very heavy.
Interior has car-like features, air-con, comfortable seats, etc, drives well, car speed limits apply, and gets mid-30’s to low 40’s mpg. Reliability has been fine, one major expense was the clutch, DMF and I had the cambelt and water pump changed at 230k miles 2/3 years ago.

We bought a Tourneo Custom in 2018, Black Friday sale, with delivery mileage for less than your budget.
Removed the double back seat straight away and can get four adults and four 29er with wheels on in it. Daughter uses it with a blow up double bed on a regular basis for camping in.

@a11y

Where did you get the swivel bases for the front seats and did you need to modify anything for the electrics. Were they easy to fit.

Where did you get the swivel bases for the front seats and did you need to modify anything for the electrics. Were they easy to fit.

There are no electrics in my T6 bench seat (there are items in the box but non that are used by the seat itself) I bought a swivel from Transporter HQ. It was about £300 but unlike others at the time it had a nylon plate that allowed it to swivel easier.
Its a dead easy install.

Curveball, and the fuel economy won’t be anything to write home about, but what about something along the lines of a Nissan Elgrand or Toyota Alphard? Readily available for well under your budget which will give you some spare pennies to spend on petrol. I imagine if you weren’t doing a huge amount of miles in it then it could make perfect sense.

I also have a Tourneo custom. 2019 auto swb. Had it a year now and was £24k with about 28k on it. It’s been superb and very flexible with the easily removable seats. Granted they are heavy seats, but I can use it for people carrying duties or camping holidays with the kids. Stick a fold away bunk bed in back and drive away awning on side for camping.
Generally I have 1 middle row seat removed and leave 1 side, rear seat in behind, but folded up. Behind that I have a dog crate. That leaves a gap down left side where I can stick 2 bikes in easily with wheels.
Love it, but always scared of a breakdown – I’ve had only Honda’s since 1990s!

We have a Transit Custom Crew Cab, basically because there isn’t a car big enough to swallow bikes whole, with space for the dog & kit. I’m past the point of taking things apart, covered in mud & playing packing Jenga. It does have a full bulkhead in so the boot is completely separate & it will swallow decent sized bikes (just) without taking wheels off.

£25k will get you a decent one, likely not one newer than 2/3 years old in the current market with a decent spec. Ours is a couple of years old now & was spec’d up as I wanted a half decent place to be when driving.

I would have had a T6.1, but comparing specs, I would have been staring down the barrel of £45+k for a similar spec Vs £30k, which is a whole lot of extra cash to worry about.

I have a friend with a T6.1 which is probably a bit nicer (but not 50% cost more nicer, by a long way) – they drive fairly comparably, in the sense they are both vans, and anyone trying to kid you they are car like, is basically delusional.

Another vote for the Transit DCiV. Got one for work, but it also doubles up as our family car and it manages both brilliantly! Lots of other good vans around nowadays, but preferred the Transit when I drove it. I’d recommend getting something with a bulkhead between the van bit and the cabin bit as it helps separate dirty bike/work stuff from the area you’re sitting in.

Had a Ranger before that and hated it so unless you need 4wd I’d avoid the pick up type things.

Where did you get the swivel bases for the front seats and did you need to modify anything for the electrics. Were they easy to fit.

@Tracey, got mine here: https://www.kiravans.co.uk/collections/transit-transit-custom-swivels. There’s PDFs on there with fitting instructions to give an idea. Both front seats are heated with driver seat electrical adjustment. Single battery located below driver’s seat.

Passenger seat very quick and easy with the seat heating cable threaded through big hole in middle of the swivel pivot.

Driver seat similar with all electrics threaded through the middle. Instructions mention lowering the battery for clearance but I didn’t need to, although I (think) I modified the plastic trim over the top of the battery – I certainly didn’t disconnect anything. Handbrake bracket was a faff involving swearing and an angle grinder to remove the existing bracket but the new bracket bolted on easily. Handlebrake cable doesn’t get touched.

Plastic trims will catch when rotating unless you raise seats to max height before rotation. Handbrake – even with lowered bracket – needs to be off to rotate but can then be pulled back on (my T5 was the same). Rear plastic trim on seats was fouled by the seat rotating so I removed and carpeted instead, not my neatest job and not holding up that well to young kids feet so I’ll redo sometime.

Long time T5 owner here. BiTurbo variant & guess what, it needs a new engine as the EGR thingy has crapped bits of alu into the cylinders. £8k + vat thank you very much.
I have a 150 hp T6 on order now as the dealer was still offering 3k off list.
Have had a test drive in the T7 but probably not for me or my tax preferences.

Thanks for that. Will need to have another look at the site.

I’d love a van, but the prices are eye-watering…I’m clearly doing something really wrong as I can’t work out how to afford £30k for a vehicle (actually, never mind £30k, I’m trying to work out how I could afford £15k!)…so clearly I’m in a very wrong job and have clearly not made sensible money choices over the years…aware demand is driving prices up and also aware that vans are much nicer places than they were 20 years ago as well as cost of everything has gone up, but it seems mental the prices for these.

I’m not looking for folk to justify the cost or anything, just an observation and clearly I’m just depressed that I can’t afford what I’m wanting (not needing, this is purely a want)…

Once it is bought, the running costs are also high – if it isn;’t used daily, then the per-use cost goes up; if it is used daily then mileage/wear and tear/fuelling all take a toll.

Sorry, gone off into my own world of wonderment…ignore this…I’m clearly envious and jealous of the vehicles!

Handbrake – even with lowered bracket – needs to be off to rotate but can then be pulled back on (my T5 was the same).

If you want to go off piste then an EV2 (C8/807/Ulysse) hand brake button pulls out to drop the lever whilst keeping the brake on for this exact reason.

I’d recommend getting something with a bulkhead between the van bit and the cabin bit as it helps separate dirty bike/work stuff from the area you’re sitting in.

Got one in ours and great at keeping cargo separate from occupants when travelling, and certainly helps reduce noise inside. There’s times its a PITA: carrying long stuff or the ability to sleep in the rear – I’d like to use mine like Tracy mentions but at 187cm I’m tight for length.

I can carry a bike with both wheels on diagonally but easier with front wheels off. Three big bikes go in without faff, 4 or more requires stem bolts slackened and bars turned 90deg. I’ve got 5 fork mounts but slot more bikes between those mounted securely:

Or full holiday mode – 4 bikes, 2 SUPS and all camping equipment and food and drink etc for 10 days (tent and coolbox missing from the pic). It’s great having the space to bring everything you could possibly imagine and still have space left over without Tetris packing.

On our camper, same seats as the Tourneo but not electric, the seats swivel without catching anything and the hand brake is between the seat base and the door. On or off its in the down position so out of the way.

Once it is bought, the running costs are also high – if it isn;’t used daily, then the per-use cost goes up; if it is used daily then mileage/wear and tear/fuelling all take a toll.

I hear you. Compared to what some folk I know spend on leases though, I’m spending peanuts in comparison. £23k purchase price mostly bought outright with the T5’s sale funds plus a wee loan (now repaid). Plan/expect to keep the van 10-15 years and have some value at the end, hopefully. Fuel per mile is still less than half that of my car but that’s more down to the car than the van!

Mine will become a ‘daily’ when I sell the car in another few years time but even combined I only drive about 6k miles p.a. on average so happy to live with van running costs.

The bulkhead is a pain sometimes (like last weekend when I needed some 8×4 ply sheets!), but it does cut down on noise for sure & I would rather it was there than not. Worst case I can remove it if I really wanted to.

Ours is an L2, so an LWB. I could probably sleep in it if I wanted to, not sure why I would as we have a camper, but it will fit a bed in. Although being a Transit, it doesn’t actually have an internal boot release, so you would be well & truly locked in! 😆

In terms of costs, yep they aren’t cheap, but I get a healthy car allowance & mileage rate which more than covers my personal use, we have an electric car we share anyway for work trips, which takes a bit of planning to not double book, but 95% of the time it works out fine, although we were fortunate enough to have the money there to buy it outright.

Although being a Transit, it doesn’t actually have an internal boot release, so you would be well & truly locked in!

I’ve bought a push-button switch to wire into the unlocking system, but I’m not sure I want to put my faith in a non-mechanical means of releasing the tailgate after locking myself inside 😆

Vito / V-class aren’t being made currently,

Oh? Why not?

Interested to hear people’s experience of taking vans/pickups to France. When I was a kid, we were charged class 3 tolls in a crew cab transit, if it had full (blacked out) windows it would be class 1, which was significantly cheaper. I’m guessing a tourneo would fit this but not a crew cab transit.

Also, with incoming LEZ’s in many cities (here and abroad), does a tourneo/caravelle simplify this as its not commercial?

@ratherbeintobago from what I understand MB are diverting chipsets from vito/v-class to other vehicles where there’s greater demand. They’re still making the EQV version though, just not any IC versions. They were due to restart production very shortly however.

@ceept French tolls are calculated on the height of the vehicle at the front axle. Our caravelle gets charged as a car. Re:LEZs, older Velles fall foul of these as many were registered as vans. Newer (t5.1 onwards) were all registered as cars so are less costly. When taking to Germany or France you’ll need a critaire sticker or Umweltzone sticker. The French website for critaire is pretty quick. We’ve found Stuttgart city authority the quickest for umwelzoneplakkete.

I actually bought an old Peugeot Boxer minibus that had been used by a school, and it took us all around the continent for a good few years before it needed so much welding it could no longer stay on the road. Of course, you can remove the horrible minibus seats and turn the interior into whatever you want.

But assuming that isn’t very appealing for most people, can I just warn you off one option?

DO NOT EVEN CONSIDER A VITO!!!

I got one to replace the old minibus, and I have never driven a more horrible, atrocious, poorly configured and poorly built vehicle!

Mine was a 2013 with a 2.5 diesel, and far from being able to list what was wrong with it, it would be easier to name the bits that were right. The tyres. And that’s because I paid for a full set of quality all seasons. Otherwise, nothing. And it’s not like it was a lemon. I mean, the driver’s seat was poorly designed, the foot-operated parking brake that needed a new cable every three weeks, the dash that could not be seen because of where the wheel was placed in relation to my line of vision… you name it. Never again.

Get a VW (of which I have had two) or get creative, but don’t get a Vito.

I had an ex aa t4 combi which I reckon was well overbuilt and the last commercial Vw to be super reliable. I bought that at auction and camperised it and prob broke even on it after 5 yrs. I then had a t5.1 after that and as it was the 180bhp biturbo version spent the last few yrs with it worried about the engine failing due to the egr issue. It used to drink oil. I got rid of it at 60k miles as it was too much of a risk despite there being nothing actually wrong with it I couldn’t enjoy using it thinking the engine could eat itself. After ten yrs and 60k miles it had a residual value of 80% of what I paid for it.