Ok – very rare then. Its certainly a myth about having second homes and range rovers and so on on benefits

Its not common and most – 99% +- will be beetter off in work
I was comparing someone to their neighbour anyway.
Yes the new car and all that stuff is nonesense.

some of them are hard working citizens who work their arse off for minimum wages getting less than their non working neighbours and only being able to afford a smaller tv. It is not hard to work out why they are cross.

Perhaps they should buy their TVs from the same places as the non working neighbours and take advantage of the generous discounts on offer. It didn’t take long to work out where all the kids from the Queen’s Park estate Wrecsam were getting their top end gear from. The non working neighbour will be able to make 500quid buy significantly more than the arseless worker.

Where exactly is this mythical school where the 25 year old lazy lazy scumbags have 6 kids, drive a new car and an iphone as i smell more hysterical Daily Mail BS from you They are not immigarnts or assylum seekers are they ?

This mythical school is in Kidderminster. Are you one of these people who think that every single unemployed person is out of work because there are not enough jobs? You are obviously unwilling to accept the fact that there are people out there who would rather claim benefits than work, even when the opportunity to work is offered?

Why are there so many normal fit young people people in my small town (Ludlow before you ask) unemployed, when there are jobs advetised in Tescos, and other various unskilled type work being advertised that any of these people could do?

Oh now let me think, is it because they would lose out on benefits, and have to work hard to get what they currently get from the tax payer! Yeah I think its that!

The fact that you keep refering to me as some newspaper reader means you are obvioulsy interested in politics, and this by default means you are probably corrupt! So your opinion is probably also screwed by some political opinion. I have no political opinion and just speak the truth of what I see on the street, and from my experiences, which are not mythical!!!!! you OTT lefty! why dont you go back to your Tony Benn shrine for somemore communist preaching!

Get Real!

I suppose your other unreal views are

1) Any one who is a member of a terrorist organisation that has attacked our country, has a right to come here and live ON BENEFITS.

2)People who protest in a violent and destructive manner have a right to do so, and it against there human rights to stop them using force!

I am full of compassion and understanding for/of people who are genuinely on benefits because they cannot work due to an illness etc, my dad was in that position.
I am not full of compassion for the tossers that cannot be arsed to work, yet think they have a right to everything a hardworking person has!

In every sphere of human activity there will always be a certain amount of individuals who take the piss.

Abuse is not restricted to those who are claiming to be disabled when in fact they are not, abuse exists in the NHS, in work related expenses, the PDSA, VAT, whatever, you name it – someone will have found a way of claiming something or a service for which they are not entitled.

Try to keep things in some sort of perspective however, and not dwell on the “shocking stories” which you hear about.

Total benefit fraud, not just fraud related to disability claims, is estimated by the National Fraud Authority to be just over £1 billion. That is a drop in the ocean when compared to a total government spending bill of three-quarters of £trillion – it’s less than Britain spends every year killing people in Afghanistan.

And it is considerably less than the £10 billion in benefits which go unclaimed every year.

Billions in benefits go unclaimed

Furthermore, it pales into insignificance when compared to Britain’s £15 billion per year tax fraud. Yes that’s right, tax evasion is FIFTEEN TIMES more serious than total benefit fraud. And that’s not even tax ‘avoidance’ ……. it’s just straight forward tax fraud.

Tax evasion costs Treasury 15 times more than benefit fraud

If you really need to get up on your soapbox and start ranting and frothing at the mouth, then I suggest you get your priorities right and place at the top of your list stuff like pointless wars, dodgy tax dodgers, etc. Unless of course it’s not the costs involved which really bothers you after all.

Afghanistan is not a pointless war!

Wether you agree with it or not is a different matter altogether for a different thread.

Deepriver – can you tell me where the 5 million jobs are then to get everyone off benefits?

And yes – your rantings are clearly a load of rubbish to anyone who has any understanding of the real situation. Yes there is some benefit fraud and a few folk who work the system. However it remains a pitiful amount of money to live on and certainly no lifestyle of luxury

Afghainstan is not pointless? Really? We have killed many people without acheiving anything except alienating an entire nation.

Please tell me what the point is?

Top stuff ernie. 😀

Oh now let me think, is it because they would lose out on benefits, and have to work hard to get what they currently get from the tax payer! Yeah I think its that!

I have no political opinion and just speak the truth of what I see on the street, and from my experiences, which are not mythical!!!!!

Even if what you speak is what you see but you clearly don’t know how it got there. You have naturally assumed that the State has given them 1.500 quid to buy a new TV rather than the purchaser only paying 200 quid for the knock off TV? From your experience, which is it?

Have you been to Afghanistan? No didnt think so! yet your opinion is more valid than mine, when I have seen the the effects first hand!

You have naturally assumed that the State has given them 1.500 quid to buy a new TV rather than the purchaser only paying 200 quid for the knock off TV? From your experience, which is it?

Nitpicking now

what are the effects of benefit fraud in Afghanistan..?

Yes – in 1966.

So then – tell us what the point is cos few folk can see one.
and where the 5 million jobs are to get everyone off benefits.

Afghanistan is not a pointless war!

Ah I see……….money well spent eh ?

Right, I can see that your priorities, and my priorities, don’t actually bear any resemblance to each other. I think I’ll probably just leave it at that.

Aye – on the telly point you can buy a big telly on the never never for a few quid a week – outrageous interest rates and takes forever to pay for it.

Oh Ernie why did you have to go and spoil it all with some cold hard facts? Kind of puts an end to an fiurther vitriolic blinkered onionated nonsense like we’ve seen on here so far…

guess where the larger tellies are?
guess which homes have the lawns un mown?
guess which homes have the most foriegn holidays?
guess where I see the most black range rover sports?
guess where the kids hang round the strreet corners?
guess whose kids are in for 8pm?
guess who has the least break ins?
guess whose at work today?
guess whose not got holiday homes in wales/ lake district?

WTF does this even mean? ‘Guess which homes have the lawns unmown’??? 😕

Truth is it’s a very small minority of all those claiming benefits, whose claims are fraudulent. The myth of the ‘hordes of benefit scroungers’ is little more than right-wing propaganda, part of the subtle attempts to engender fear, resentment and hate within society. Divide and Rule.

I live in Tower Hamlets, one of the most ‘socially deprived’ parts of the UK. Whilst I know that benefit fraud does happen, the Truth that I see is that many people struggle to get by on benefits, and certainly don’t enjoy the kind of lavish lifestyles some on here seem to believe all benefit claimants enjoy. Come down, and I’ll show you, if you like. I’ve offered to do this several times on this forum, when confronted with ignorance and narrow-mindedness. Surprisingly, none of those venting their self-righteous spleens have taken me up on this offer. funny that. Maybe they’d rather have something to moan about than actually see the reality for themselves.

As you were.

Can we do immigrants soon? Can we? Pleeeaaasee????

Certainly elf. We don’t like people of your hue around here. Back to where you came from please.
.
.
.
.
.
.I mean – blue! what sort of colour is that?

Ruddy smurfs – coming over here stealing our women and undercutting us in the labour market.

Heh! 😆

RACIST!

Ah, I feel better now….

Nitpicking now

Not at all. There is a difference which you don’t appear to be aware of yet you feel that your knowledge of the real world has some value.

Yes I would report them if there was strong evidence pointing to the fact that they’re being fraudulent, why not? It’s still theft at the end of the day.

I read an interesting fact the other day, that more money is spent on the fraud investigation department each year than they claim back through fraudulent claims. So that is money well spent! 🙄

Also, are the people saying it is their money being spent, through taxes, the same ones who tell the police that they pay their wages?! 😆

Bloody immigrants coming over here scrounging off the state marriage of convenience having several children several homes and cars living the life of luxury at taxpayers’ expense…

Send the buggers back!

ernie_lynch:
Furthermore, it pales into insignificance when compared to Britain’s £15 billion per year tax fraud. Yes that’s right, tax evasion is FIFTEEN TIMES more serious than total benefit fraud. And that’s not even tax ‘avoidance’ ……. it’s just straight forward tax fraud.

I think you are over-looking the moral significance of benefit fraud. Lets not forget that whilst these people are not working, they are not paying tax, and more importantly in my experience they are bringing up children who will have similar values. Tax evasion is equally serious however people claiming benefits is also stealing from every person who pulls their weight – hence I don’t care how little they are stealing, I would rather it went to something worthy and not in the pocket of a thief.

Who ever said it was a ‘drop in the ocean’ should consider the effect that that drop could have if it were spent in a school, hospital or charity.

deep_river – Member

I suppose your other unreal views are

1) Any one who is a member of a terrorist organisation that has attacked our country, has a right to come here and live ON BENEFITS.

2)People who protest in a violent and destructive manner have a right to do so, and it against there human rights to stop them using force!

Are you for real?

The fact that you keep refering to me as some newspaper reader means you are obvioulsy interested in politics, and this by default means you are probably corrupt!

that is some powerful logic you are using there. oh Deary me

So your opinion is probably also screwed by some political opinion.

perhaps i am basing it on what you have said on this thread.

I have no political opinion and just speak the truth of what I see on the street, and from my experiences, which are not mythical!!!!! you OTT lefty! why dont you go back to your Tony Benn shrine for somemore communist preaching!

That was my favourite bit 😆 You are so street and such a sayer of truths. Are you a rapper? ps the school is where your wife works not you so it is technically not your experiece it is hers apparently. It is at best hearsay and at worst BS.

I suppose your other unreal views are

1) Any one who is a member of a terrorist organisation that has attacked our country, has a right to come here and live ON BENEFITS.
yes off course it is the natural conclusion to oppsoing your views. I am a political communist with an agenda that includes support for terrorist benefit claimants sshhhh you saw right through me 😳

2)People who protest in a violent and destructive manner have a right to do so, and it against there human rights to stop them using force!

No i agree with the Gadaffi solution bomb the shit out of them YOU?

Swalsey

I think Ernie was trying to put it in context.

“Benefit scroungers” is a moral panic built up by right wing press and commentators as the enemy within. yes it exists but is a small issue compared to tax fraud and avoidance for example. However far more money and time is spent chasing benefit cheats than tax cheats – despite the fact tht chasing tax cheats gets high returns and chasing benefit cheats does not.

I think that myself and some of treehuggers on here just have to agree to dis-agree!

Some people think that every problem is the fault of the state and the politicians, these are usually the same people who blame naughty children on the fact that the education system has let them down, rather than the fact that the parents are layabout scumbags.

I believe that everyone makes their own choices and luck. Sure, not everyone has the opportunity/ability to a highly paid lawyer, but everyone has the ability to make the most of there lives and pay there own way!

Now I belive that the Rainbow Warrior docks in southampton next week, I think that theres some room for a few more leftwing citreon 2cv drivers to go and do some good in the world, long live communism!

Im bowing out, goodnight gentlemen 🙂

So please deepriver – where are the 5 million jobs you claim are awaiting folk to get them off benefits?

What is the point of our occupation of Afghanistan?

Now I belive that the Rainbow Warrior docks in southampton next week, I think that theres some room for a few more leftwing citreon 2cv drivers to go and do some good in the world, long live communism!

I call Troll.

No-one can possibly be this daft. Surely? 😯

Entertaining though. 😀

Still waters run deep 😯

20% of Britain is still owned by the aristocracy and people are more worried about benefit fraud. :-/

believe that everyone makes their own choices and luck

you should read the parable of the sower and no I am not a christian either.

The story is simple. A farmer sows seed in a field:

· Some seed falls on the paths, and the birds quickly eat it.

· Some seed falls where there are rocks, and not much soil. Plants grow quickly, but soon the sun dries them. There is not enough soil, and the plants die.

· Some seed begins to grow in a place where there are too many weeds. The weeds stop the growth of the plants, and the plants die.

· But other seed falls on good ground. So, the plants grow well. The farmer has a harvest from these plants.

]the non christian moral being the children who fall on the stony ground may struggle a bit more than those who fall on fertile soil like say Cameron or the royals. See also the lack of social mobility and the fact the world is not a meritocracy to demonstrate that whilst some people can rise above the shit they find themselve born into statistically it is quite unlikely They are no more all lazy than the sons and daughters of the rich and privledged are all talented see Prince Edward for example.
still waters run deep Chapeau to you

Elfinsafety – An encore just for you 🙂

Not a troll,

I usually cant be bothered to get involved in some of the entertaining debates that happen on here. For me its a light hearted way to get some good cycling info/gen/advice etc….

But Im in one of those moods today! Pleased to entertain you.

edukator two wrongs dont make a right given the choice would i target tax avoidance or benefit fraud it would be the former. That doe snot mean i should find the later acceptable becaus ether eare other injustices in the world

TandemJeremy – Member
No one is less well off working than on benefits. Its a myth.

retro83 – Member
Anything to back that up? PolicyExchange seem to think it is rather real.

POSTED 1 HOUR AGO #

TandemJeremy – Member
policy exchange – right wing loonies.

It’s really **** irritating the way you keep posting things like this.

You make some bold statement with no facts to back it up at all, then when somebody posts figures which dispute your assertion, instead of posting some alternatives which support your point or finding fault with the process by which they were obtained you just brush them off as ‘right wing loonies’ with no further evidence of that, nor retracting your earlier claim.

Infuriating.

I do wonder sometimes when people like deep_river and others BNP/right wing sorts have ever actually seen people in this country in real poverty

I saw it all around me as a kid but never actually realised just how bad it was until later when I looked back.
There’s real need out there, and – TBH – I couldn’t give 2 figs if a few get away with milking the system when the alternative is to make claiming so difficult and onerous that those that really need it will suffer.

Infuriating.

But correct, apparently:

Policy Exchange
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Policy Exchange
Formation 2002
Type Think Tank
Location London, UK
Website policyexchange.org.uk
Policy Exchange is a British conservative think tank based in London. The Daily Telegraph has described it as “the largest, but also the most influential think tank on the right”.[1] The New Statesman named it as David Cameron’s “favourite think tank”,[2] a view shared by the Political Editor of the Evening Standard Joe Murphy, who referred to it as “the intellectual boot camp of the Tory modernisers’”.[3]

They are a bunch of right-wingers, that bit is 100% true. Loonies? Possibly.

Now I believe that the Rainbow Warrior docks in Southampton next week, I think that there’s some room for a few more leftwing Citreon 2cv drivers to go and do some good in the world, long live communism!

😯 I know everyone has the right to a proper education, obviously no-one can control what you do with it, but to openly abuse it is quite disgraceful and an insult to the educators. I also corrected the quote for you. 😉

Come on Elf read the blurb on the report……

Policy Exchange is an independent think tank whose mission is to develop and promote new policy ideas which will foster a free society

😉

TWO-UNDRED!

😀

I’ve worked hard for that one, and it’s my right to claim it…