being took to court for £80! do I pay or continue to argue the toss?

I joined a gym in November last year and signed a six month contract. I’ve been a member with them on various occasion over the last decade and in general they don’t hold you to contract, until Dave Whelan bought them from JJB that is! When I signed I asked the girl who signed me up if I lost my job would I be able to postpone and she said ‘they never hold you to contracts’ and in the past they haven’t.

anyway, made 4 payments £160 and then I lost my job in April so had to ‘postpone’ it and left it at that. Then they’ve started to pursue me and have got a debt recovery company ringing me daily. I’ve told them that the basis of my defence is that the paper contract was superseded by a verbal contract and that on the basis I attended on only four occasions they have had a reasonable amount of money for the use I have had.

In reality I’m banking on them not footing the cost to take it to court and will drop it.

Or, do I pay up and cut my losses…

Verbal contract trumping a paper contract 😐

I’d pay up.

Yeah, you don’t have a leg to stand on and it will amount to a lot more than 80 quid once they’ve added legal costs on.

Even if you could convince the girl that said that to turn up in court and say what she’d said I would still say you wouldn’t get away with it.

You agreed in writing to pay a certain amount over a certain period. Anything some employee may or may not have said to you is totally irrelevant.

Sorry but pay up.

Rachel

But if you are not working, then just tough it out – maybe they’ll get £1 a week.

Tell them in writing though that you’ve no income, and when the Judge finds against you – remind him.

Whoa – whether you are working or not has nothing to do with it – you agreed to pay a certain amount of money to them and they would really rather you stuck to your promise.

Regardless of your current circumstances, are you the type of person that does what they say they will do or not? It really is as simple as that.

Rachel

They won’t take you to court.

I wouldn’t pay them in your circumstances

Yes even if I’d signed on the dotted line. But any company that takes it’s customers to court over something like gym membership regardless of there circumstances can F%^k Off

Not in anyway saying that would be a good idea but it’s what I’d do regardless.

FFS, a gym threatening there own customers over a 6 month membership.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2011/may/27/gym-contracts-unfair-rules-court

It really is as simple as that.

Of course it isn’t.

But any company that takes it’s customers to court over something like gym membership regardless of there circumstances can F%^k Off…

…FFS, a gym threatening there own customers over a 6 month membership.

This.

http://buckworthsolicitors.co.uk/?p=630

Mentions “loss of livelihood” and defines it as being found “unfair” in The High Court.

If you have **** all cash, on dole or whatever, worth telling them, they may give up.

I doubt you’d win tho and costs would mount if they sued.

http://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2011/1237.html

Just google: Office of Fair Trading V. Ashbourne Management Services Ltd [2011] EWHC 1237 (ch)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/8896311/Cancer-survivor-banned-from-Bannatyne-gyms-after-court-case.html

Nice, slightly off the OP’s question but still on topic

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?260-Gyms-and-Health-Clubs

I’ll go away now

BBC Watchdog did a couple or pieces about this, still available on their website.

The ashbourne management stuff had them tied in for long periods, not 6 months so doesn’t really apply here.

I’d get over to Consumer Action Group and ask some peeps over there

Tell the debt recovery firm it’s disputed and you will only deal with the original company to whom the contract applied. Then tell the gym IN WRITING you were made unemployed and that an employee advised contracts were not enforced when you signed. It’s a breach of process, similar to misselling PPI. I’d be amazed if they bothered following it up with court action.

I don’t think some of the advice here is good advice to be honest. The thing about verbal contracts, they ARE enforceable, as long as you can prove you had one in force.

So, if the Gym company is threatening court proceedings, tell them you will be calling their own employee who made the oral representation, as a witness, against them. Tell them that prior to this, in the interests of fairness and full disclosure, you wish to arrange a time for them to be made available to you, so you may take a witness statement from them about the conversation, and then present it to the court as a statement of truth.

If the employee is “unavailable” you want to know why. If they are not willing to make a statement, then they can be compelled to. The loss of the emplyee and the upset caused may be greater than their loss incurred by your cancellation. Put it this way, if you get a statement confirming your version of events, then the judge will NOT be impressed, regardless of the contract they seek to enforce.

If they pursue it further to a hearing (small track claims), then ask them to quantify the loss. The loss to them represents a share of the lighting, heating, staff costs, wear and tear on the equipment and contributions towards the various insurances/training they have. By failing to attend, they are making savings, and therefore their actual loss is the gym membership fee + some admin cost for cancelling, less the overheads. If they want £80, offer them £20 as the loss of profit on the membership, as to obtain he full amount would be a double recovery, ie savings + fee.

Of course, some posters above are also correct in how to deal with the debt recovery company.

I don’t think some of the advice here is good advice

In my defense I did state mine was suspect in my first post 😀

Still, balls to ’em

If they pursue it further to a hearing (small track claims), then ask them to quantify the loss. The loss to them represents a share of the lighting, heating, staff costs, wear and tear on the equipment and contributions towards the various insurances/training they have. By failing to attend, they are making savings, and therefore their actual loss is the gym membership fee + some admin cost for cancelling, less the overheads. If they want £80, offer them £20 as the loss of profit on the membership, as to obtain he full amount would be a double recovery, ie savings + fee.

They can quantify the loss as the amount not paid in the agreed and signed contract. They don’t need to quantify anything other than that.

Citizens Advice Bureau 💡

Long time since I’ve done anything with contracts, but look into ‘implied contracts’. Regardless of what was signed, if conditions are implied, they form part of (and/or change) the contract (or at least that certainly was the case).

The law is generally pretty fair, you aren’t refusing to pay out of malice, or to benefit yourself, you are unable to pay (and as a result no longer use their services) due to unemployment. I used the same argument in court to stop my mortgage company prepossessing my house so that I could sell it. The Judge ruled in my favour.

piemonster – Member
I’d get over to Consumer Action Group and ask some peeps over there

NOOOOOOOOO

They don’t know what they’re talking about. ‘Advised’ some people on Consumer Credit Law and there have been plenty of charges put on properties and at least one eviction because of it. Idiots.

they never hold you to contracts

I’m sorry, this is not a term of a verbal contract. It is a representation about possible future waiver of rights under a written contract. There is (almost certainly) a provision in the written agreement saying that waiver of rights on one occasion doesn’t affect future enforcement. But they haven’t even done that. Someone who did not even hold herself out as negotiating on behalf of the company (“they never”) gave you a general statement about the company’s attitude to non-payers. It wasn’t a promise that you would be treated like that.

IfI was gambling my money on the “verbal contract” argument, based on what you’ve told us I’d pay up. I am a lawyer, altho this is far from my specialist subject.

They’re unlikely ever to take you to court for that amount of money. Of course, that’s exactly what debt recovery firms threaten to do, with the hope of scaring you onto paying up. Again though, they are often paid percentages of the ‘collected’ money. What’s that to them, £20 or something? I can’t see you getting much more than a letter to be honest.

Actual court papers or just a debt recovery firm threatening court?

Actual court papers or just a debt recovery firm threatening court?

A solicitors letter but they also ask me not to call them and call the debt recovery client! I’ve dealt with debt recovery in the past so I know how they prey on fear and it don’t worry me.

Some brilliant advice so far folks and much appreciated. To clarify some bits i missed out I am back in work but the work takes me 200 miles away from their nearest branch for 6 days a week so I’m basically digging my heels in and I feel it is unreasonable for them to pursue me for £80 when they’ve had £160 for me attending 5 times!

thanks again folks, some proper straight forward, technical and honest advice 8)

one thing, they plan to issue proceedings at Northampton County Court, both DW sports (HQ) and myself are based in Wigan, if they plan to start proceedings could I request they switch it to a local court???

Is it really a great surprise that a business is seeking payment for their services? It is, after all, their income stream.

Perhaps if more people paid what they owed the nation wouldn’t be in the financial mess it is in.

I wonder if the ‘tell them to stick it’ brigade would be so accommodating if their employer or clients refused to pay them?

Arkell v Pressdram?

I think I’d sit back and wait for the court papers 😉

If you get them (and you won’t) you can pay it then…

Well has he hasn’t actually been using the gym, it would be more like me demanding payment from my employer even though I never turned up.

Putting the moral argument to the side for a moment…

Bannatynes has sold this outstanding debt to a debt recovering company for a fraction of the amount of the £80. This company will now start sending all sorts of letters threatening the world in order to try and get people to pay up.

Some will, some won’t, but for £80 this company will simply be hoping that enough people do pay up overall to make a profit. At the £80 level ignore completely the letters and they will go away. Eventually.

You signed a contract. A girl at reception saying “they won’t pursue you” isn’t a verbal contract and in any case the written one would override it.

Times are tough so the gym is probably struggling and they are therefore pursuing outstanding amounts rather than letting it go.

I’d say pay up but make sure you tell as many people as you can about their aggressive tactics.

Yes you can apply to transfer proceedings to the local court it’s where the contract was made . Also correspond with the solicitor they have instructed not the debt recovery people if they don’t reply threaten to report them to the SRA . As stated above a verbal indication of future intent is unlikely to alter a writen contract . I had similar threats from Exports and their debt chasers they never took me to court we had a final conversation where they said that was it they would sue then a week later they rang and accepted the 30 i’d agreed I owed them as one months notice .

I lost my job in April so had to ‘postpone’ it and left it at that.

What does that actually mean? Did you talk to the gym?

You can’t just stop paying a contract and hope it goes away without telling anyone. This is why you’re being chased in the first place.

You absolutely cannot negotiate with debt collection agencies. They’re interested in one thing and one thing only, which is recovering the debt. Your personal circumstances are irrelevant, you could be on fire for what difference it’d make.

Your first step is to notify the gym that you want to cancel their membership and tell them why. I’d be tempted to do this in person, tell them how you’ve lost your job and struggling to make ends meet. You might find someone sympathetic.

As for this,

have got a debt recovery company ringing me daily.

If the debt is in dispute then it’s illegal for them to pursue it. If they continue to do so after they’ve been told there’s a dispute, you can go after them for harassment.

Well has he hasn’t actually been using the gym, it would be more like me demanding payment from my employer even though I never turned up.

Excellent! So if I don’t use my car for weeks or months, I obviously don’t need to make the finance payments or when I go on holiday, I don’t need to pay my mortgage? After all I’m not using the house when I’m on holiday.

It is no different to signing up to a new mobile contract or Sky TV contract (Other TV suppliers are available).

A contract is a contract. If you want out of it you need to find a mutually agreeable way out.

Unfortunately gyms know when they sign new members, many have the best intentions of using the facilities every week but most people fall back into their lazy habits very quickly. This is why the gyms sign you into a long term contract. That way once you fall into the bad habit of not going, they are guaranteed their income for a period of time.

so I’m basically digging my heels in and I feel it is unreasonable for them to pursue me for £80 when they’ve had £160 for me attending 5 times!

You signed a contract to have the gym available when you wanted to use it.
You chose not to use it very much (your choice)
You actually are working.
You can afford to pay what you owe.
You just don’t want to.

Does that sum it up quite well ?