allthegear – Member
I was meaning the US healthcare system – I never mentioned the NHS

You cannot expect their healthcare system to deal with everyone and even NHS cannot cope.

Also – WTF are you on about in that last para? You’re happy for people to cull each other????

Rachel

If they are determine to cull each other who are going to stop them?

wwaswas – Member
Rachel – I’d ignore chewkw – no good comes of engaging…

😯

sorry but it just degenerates into zombie brain maggots and incomprehensible conspiracy theories.

It’s like talking to a voodoo JHJ.

— http://libconthoughts.blogspot.co.uk/2015/12/the-power-of-pie-charts.html

Ironically undercooked meat deaths aren’t that rare then?

allthegear – Member

So called “islamic terrorism”, with the exception of 9/11, has killed what, a few dozen people in the last few years? It’s nothing, not even noticeable, compared to general gun crime in US.

Forget about gun crime- financial crime kills more people than islamic terrorism, in the west.

Gun crimes usually related to drugs me think with the exception of few trigger happy cops

That’s almost certainly not true. The vast majority of deaths from guns in the US is suicide, double the figure for killings.

If you’re looking solely at actual homicides, a quick Google would suggest somewhere in the region of 20% are drugs-related, though that’s a difficult statistic to pin down with any degree of accuracy. And “trigger-happy cops” is just Mail-eqsque hyperbole, police shootings and other accidents is about 3%.

I think you’ll find that some Americans will say their tight border controls and surveilance at home plus aggressive action abroad has kept them safe at home. Hence limited domesric terrorist deaths.

I see the 30,000 gun deaths is still being talked about. As I said thats 20,000 suicides plus a lot of criminal on criminal killings all with illegal weapons.

Plus what Americans do about gun control and domestoc terrorism is their business not ours. Just imagine how the voices of Europeans telling Americans how they should run their society goes down – answer like a lead balloon. They will say STFU and mind your own business as without us you’d all be speaking German.

STFU and mind your own business as without us you’d all be speaking German

you clearly have a greater confidence in the British ability to learn foreign languages than I do – it’s only been 70 years!

Rachel

I think the best thing to do is let Paxman in full attack dog mode get at him!

Or would that just be too cruel….?

I think you’ll find that some Americans will say their tight border controls and surveilance at home plus aggressive action abroad has kept them safe at home.

So why do they want to spend $6 billion on building a wall between themselves and Mexico then?

EDIT : To be fair you did say “some Americans”. Who did you have in mind – Donald Trump?

@allthegear, my point is “Euro Liberals” complaining about Trump just plays right into his hands. We might think the NHS is great but most Republicans (and many Democrats) think its a total disaster providing second rate care. Irs a different political landscape thats my point. Look at his Twitter post about Katie Hopkins, he well kniws that will wind up us “Liberals” even more and make him more popukar amongst hus supporters

@ernie, Trump has suggested Mexico pays for the wall extensions (as walls alreadynexist) in return for the free trade agreement that exists 😯

Trump is nuts, we are just helping him by reacting

he well kniws that will wind up us “Liberals”

So why are most “Liberals” here laughing at him?

Trump just plays right into his hands

Really?

How?

You might argue that any publicity is good publicity, but I’d counter that anyone with half a brain can see Trump for the dangerous loon he is. The closer to the light he’s held the more easy it will be for folks to see through him.

It’s a lot of noise for someone who doesn’t stand a chance of winning. They voted Obama in last time for crying out loud, switching to Trumpet from there is preposterous.
All this is just clickbait.

The closer to the light he’s held the more easy it will be for folks to see through him.

It also makes the hatred that he preaches more ‘mainstream’.

He does not stand a chance of winning, that is correct.

However, it should not be underestimated the damage giving him a platform is doing. His racist rhetoric is putting many many lives in danger, and I am not talking white lives here, I am talking the already isolated Muslim communities throughout the western world.

His words, his actions, his demeanor is dangerous, worryingly so. And comparing it to that of the treatment of the Jews is about as accurate as you can get. We are witnessing quite an unprecedented shift in American / world politics.

We are witnessing quite an unprecedented shift in American / world politics.

What we are witnessing is a polarization of politics with an international dimension compared to 10 years ago, due to the worse crises in capitalism since the 1930s.

It should be remembered that after the economic mess left by George Bush the United States shifted fairly significantly to the left. While the UK shifted to the right. Before we start getting too sanctimonious and superior.

I don’t see the link between Capitalism and racism but good try.

We are witnessing quite an unprecedented shift in American / world politics.

I don’t think we are. The US have always had their share of loonies (as have we), Trump isn’t a lot worse than Palin was.

I don’t think we are. The US have always had their share of loonies (as have we), Trump isn’t a lot worse than Palin was

I don’t recall any other politician in recent history making the bigoted, racist, sexist and damaging statements that Trump has made.

It also makes the hatred that he preaches more ‘mainstream’.

So what do you?

Ignore it?

Pretend it doesn’t exist?

Or try to show it up for what it is?

I don’t recall any other politician in recent history making the bigoted, racist, sexist and damaging statements that Trump has made.

It hasn’t changed anyones views. There are plenty of loons who must love him. They were loons before and they will be loons when Trump has gone. Although not a politician, our very own sexist, bigot heavyweight boxing champion has made remarks about women which would make trump recoil and plenty seem to be sticking up for that particular dickhead.

I looked at it yesterday, thought about it, changed my mind and didn’t click the email confirmation, then heard the UK politicians don’t want anything to do with it and thought, definitely sign, if only to make them squirm, which party does he donate to over here I imediately wondered. In the short time of deliberation it had doubled from over two to four hundred climbing as fast as the Clarkson one, with the news media featuring it on almost every bulletin, the same news media that created the furore in the first place. If he wasn’t reported, would it really have happened?

Indifferent to these dopey petitions but all for getting more of that balloon trick on page 1. Proppalol.

Who would win the Hairstyle Slapdown?

LHS – Member

I don’t see the link between Capitalism and racism but good try.

I made absolutely no link between Capitalism and racism, although the link is obvious.

This is exactly what I said :

ernie_lynch – Member

What we are witnessing is a polarization of politics with an international dimension compared to 10 years ago, due to the worse crises in capitalism since the 1930s.

It should be remembered that after the economic mess left by George Bush the United States shifted fairly significantly to the left. While the UK shifted to the right. Before we start getting too sanctimonious and superior.
Posted 18 minutes ago #

You probably have noticed that we have in recent years experienced the worse global crises of capitalism since the 1930s.

Perhaps you haven’t noticed though that this has directly resulted in completely unexpected gains for the left, for example in Greece and the UK Labour Party.

It has also resulted in huge gains for the right, again in Greece and UKIP in the UK, and of course more currently in France.

This greater political polarization can be linked to prevailing economic conditions. I suggest you consider that rather than relying on smart-arse comments such as “good try” 💡

mrlebowski – Member

It also makes the hatred that he preaches more ‘mainstream’.

So what do you?

Ignore it?

Pretend it doesn’t exist?

Or try to show it up for what it is?

I would suggest that you don’t treat Trump as an amusing but ultimately harmless idiot.

I don’t think he is.

Perhaps you haven’t noticed though that this has directly resulted in completely unexpected gains for the left, for example in Greece and the UK Labour Party.

It has also resulted in huge gains for the right, again in Greece and UKIP in the UK, and of course more currently in France.
Hesn’t there always been these gains/losses though ernie? Mainly because the only choices are left or right, one wins for a while, then the other wins etc etc regardless of the state of the economy. Open minded, non-indoctrinated voters ensure that this will always be the case, no?

ernie_lynch – Member

I would suggest that you don’t treat Trump as an amusing but ultimately harmless idiot.

I don’t think he is.

He most definitely isn’t and it is a very dangerous game being played.

wrecker – Member

It hasn’t changed anyones views. There are plenty of loons who must love him. They were loons before and they will be loons when Trump has gone.

But right now they’re loons being empowered and emboldened. I’ve posted about this a couple of times and maybe in this thread, so, not to repeat myself but it’s pretty bad news. lots of people have unpleasant thoughts but don’t feel brave enough to share them. Now you’ve got a **** presidential candidate being a **** on telly, other ****s are more likely to go out and be ****s.

It might not change views but it’ll change how vocal people are about those views, and whether they choose to act on them.

Yeah I don’t see any differences in left gain or right gains. Think you are trying to make a link that’s not there.

Hesn’t there always been these gains/losses though ernie?

Well if it was so these gains wouldn’t have been unexpected. The general consensus is/was that they were unexpected.

I would suggest that you don’t treat Trump as an amusing but ultimately harmless idiot.

Hmm, I think you have the wrong end of the stick.

Trump is a loon, an intelligent loon which makes him dangerous. That’s why I think he shouldn’t be ignored.

As for the “mainstreaming” of his views? They’ve always existed, acting like an ostrich doesn’t make them go away.

Ah, get you. I thought it was more just running away from whatever they already had, rather than a collective shift of position (left/right).

As for the “mainstreaming” of his views? They’ve always existed, acting like an ostrich doesn’t make them go away.

It’s just a clickbait effect. As an example, Choudary is always given a platform even though he has nothing to offer, he sells papers and gets viewers. It’s the car crash thing.

As for the “mainstreaming” of his views? They’ve always existed

Well it’s the first time I’ve heard a high profile US politician from a political party which regularily forms governments, ie not a fringe politician from a fringe party, call for all muslims to be banned from entering the country, quite apart from a few other hate based comments.

Well it’s the first time I’ve heard a high profile US politician from a political party

Could this be because he’s mostly funding his campaign himself though?
Others have sponsors, donors to potentially upset, and PR people with a tight control on things, limiting what they can say.

Could this be because he’s mostly funding his campaign himself though?

Quite possibly but whatever the reasons the level of bigotry which Trump has been expressing has never been mainstream US politics.

Well certainly not for quite a few decades.

Well it’s the first time I’ve heard a high profile US politician from a political party which regularily forms governments, ie not a fringe from a fringe party, call for all muslims to be banned from entering the country, quite apart from a few other hate based comments

He has about 8% of the vote – I’d call that pretty fringe. If he wasn’t Trump we’d all have forgotten about him long ago.