Audio debate

Where to start on a separate system and what matters most. I have currently got kef carina II speakers, a sony cd player and a rotel 931 amp (30wpc). I get good sound when cd’s and thats the main thing I use. The question is – Is a higher rating amplifier or pre/power option going to sound better or is it down to the source not the amplifier

If it ain’t broke, why try to fix it? If you like the sound you’re getting, and with a Sony front-end and a Rotel amp, which have always been good, going back to the 80’s when I used to sell them, and KEF’s, then It should be fine, I can see no logical reason to change anything.
Thing is, in a regular town house, how much volume are you realistically going to be able to use? Wattage isn’t everything; it’s the amp’s ability to produce a good current to drive your speakers without clipping, or distorting.
Look at quality valve amps; they frequently deliver only around 12-15 watts, but can go startlingly loud!

Input/output impedance, speaker sensitivity, current/watts.

It’s an insane game and totally subjective. As said, if you’re happy stick with what you’ve got.

Have you got directional cables?

Naim

onlysteel – Member
Naim

Why? The OP seems happy with his Rotel, they are well-made, and sound good with a wide range of speakers.
Naim have always been made out to be fussy, which then starts an upgrade-cycle, trying, and possibly failing, to match it with components to arrive at the situation the OP currently finds himself in: to whit, a neat little system he’s happy with.
To reiterate, IIABDFI.

back when I:

a) was into hifi
b) had time to listen to stuff
c) was into music…

…I always felt the amp was the key to a good system. CD players are much of a muchness IME until you get a really good one/spend some money, but the amp is the driving force and dictates how the system sounds (warm/clinical/tight/bright etc.). Speakers are important too, of course, but cheap ones really can sound pretty good on the end of a good setup, if the volume isn’t high.

Personally, I always found Rotel amps were a bit too thin/bright/clinical for my tastes. Bit like Audiolab in this respect. Ditto Sony CD players (I had a decent Sony SCAD player for a while). I preferred a more open, warmer sound. But these things are all subjective, and the room itself plays a big part. If you have lots of curtains/carpet/sofas in the room then your system may not sound bright at all.

I am reasonably happy with the setup, if only a little more… If can be, but some people say it its the source that matters most. The kef’s are rated upto 150wpc, but any need. Prior a few years back i had a nad 3020 and heybrook hb1 and that was only doing 10wpc at quarter volume. So, is it a can of worms with the talk/marketing of RMS and WPC

The setup is on target unfilled stands on concrete floor,a different amp – pre amp/amp?

*SACD not SCAD

I wouldn’t worry about the power rating of the speakers; they’ll be more easily damaged by an underpowered/overdriven amplifier ‘clipping’ (squaring off the signal from amp to speaker).

Having had lots and lots of Hifi over the years I have come to the conclusion that speakers make the most difference to the sound but are not the arbiters of its quality.
If you’re pursuing absolute sound quality and have the cash source first still works. If however you just want a sound you like on a budget get some speakers you love and then drive them with a modest amp and CD and you’ll be happy. I’ve heard amazing systems sound pants with the wrong speakers but modest systems sound great with the right ones.

I had a very serious system in the past £15K + but get equal enjoyment from something much more modest now because I found some speakers I really, really liked and bought just enough amp to drive them well. I might be missing some details and possibly it’s not as perfect as some but I like it and that’s all that matters.

The greatest noticable difference (upgrade to sound quality) you could make to your system is to acoustically treat your room, a few simple acoustic panels or perhaps corner bass traps will make far more audible difference than any amount of expense spent on a new front end (so to speak).

Without spending time in your room or examining the audio freq it’s impossible to say what would give the greatest improvement, check out a few of the acoustic room treatment sites to get an idea of what you should be looking at.

I’ve got an Audiolab pre and power and setup and the pre amp can run as an integrated. Well, the power amp adds so much clarity, power, definition, I’m so glad I’ve got it.

The integrated on its own us nice but as a pre amp with the power amp supporting it, it’s wicked.

Power amp is 100w per channel. Whilst more power doesn’t equal volume as some think, it will prevent clipping which will prevent speakers from blowing, ie, you can go louder without distortion.

I must admit I kindof forgot abot cd and listening to mp3 playback for a few year. It came a bit of surpirse when I started cd again, evem through a portable connected, I thought oh, what I missed out on – sound wise, depth clarity bass detail. So I think I stick with what I got as quarter of volume is loud enough. Sand in stands?

Thanks for advice/feedback

You could wreck 150wpc speakers with a 150w amp if it doesn’t have much in the way of current, by overdriving it and clipping the signal, by playing dub reggae at daft volumes, for example. I sold a nice pair of KEF speakers to a customer who burned out the voice-coils on the bass speakers by turning the bass up on a Technics amp rated at 130w.
Clot.
You could look at getting a Cambridge Audio DVD99 universal player, which plays DVD-A/SACD/CD discs, but you’ll have to find one second-hand, which is a shame, it’s a superb sounding machine.
You could go really over the top and look at one of these: http://www.richersounds.com/product/blu-ray/cambridge-audio/azur-752bd/camb-752bd-blk
But that could lead into a very slippery slope of increasingly expensive upgrades; that player is £800!
Possibly your best option is to look around for some quality s/h kit, if you still have a desire to upgrade; however, I still think if you like what you’ve got, stick with it and enjoy the music.

If you’re looking at the front end, I would drop the disc spinner and go for a Hard Drive solution these days. A friend of mine has a Linn network player and it sounds amazing with Lossless CD rips. There are much cheaper options that would probably work nearly as well, but I haven’t researched them much. I still have a very high end Naim CD player, which sounds great but have to say the newer network systems are even better and much more convenient to use.

Amps are important too. Again I’ve got a fairly high end Naim pre-power combo which is awesome but certainly not cheap. When I last upgraded (from a Naim Integrated amp) the difference was huge.

As for speakers I think it’s largely personal preference rather than price. Even budget speakers can sound great in a top quality system if you happen to like their style of sound.

From your original post though, it sounds like you simply want more power, in which case an amp upgrade could work well. But as already mentioned, that doesn’t necessarily just mean higher Wattage. What you want is a higher quality amp that can drive the speakers more accurately. Forget the Wattage, it’s relatively unimportant. As a student I had a Naim Nait 2 rated at about 15W, but it went seriously loud without distortion. I eventually replaced it with a much more powerful Naim pre/power combo, which dramatically improved sound quality, but was not really any louder. Main difference was a much tighter controlled bass.

What sort of amp should I be possibly looking for in a s/h budget option for a more controlled and a bit more power. The kef’s are bright anyway and the rotel amps are bright and bass is there, just a little more would be good.

The Kefs you have are quite efficient and are easily driven by your current Rotel.

If you want to put more juice up them and see what happens get a Rotel/pre power or one of the more powerful Rotel integrateds further up the range.

I say stick with Rotel as you seem happy otherwise and they’re very good value, good solid amps and loads on ebay.

If it were me I’d keep the amp and get floorstanders will make a much bigger change IMHO.

If it were me I’d keep the amp and get floorstanders will make a much bigger change IMHO.

I found that too when demoing (is that an actual word?) floor v stand mounted speakers of the same type (In my case Dynaudio Audiience series). Floorstanders really up the bass and generally go louder if that’s what you want. But you can lose some detail in tbe process, especially with a budget amp, so demo before you buy. Speakers are such a personal thing, it’s impossible to recommend anything specific. I went with the floor standers mainly because I like my music loud with deep bass. The stand mounted options at the price point I was looking at didn’t quite cut it at high volume in a big room, although they can be the best for subtle detail at lower volumes. Room size is a big factor in this decision too, so make sure you can demo at home.