I’ve appointed a company to do an asbestos survey on my house which they’ve done this morning. I know very little about this obviously but isn’t it impossible to assess for asbestos by simply looking at a material?

The gent who has come out told me that he can confirm if a material has asbestos in it due to his 25 years experience and that a management survey only takes a sample for testing if the material appears suspicious.

The other 2 companies i spoke to, who were all asking similar money if not less, definitely said that they would have to damage the walls to do the assessment but would do so discreetly.

I mentioned this was my expectation and would he be discreet not long after he arrived and I know I should have challenged it then if unhappy, but I was rather blown away by his 20 minute monologue on how deadly asbestos is, how it destroys tissue and nerves in your lungs, how it would never get out of your body once in, how there was no treatment and how 60% of the guys he apprenticed with are dead because of it.

Experience can tell you if it’s suspicious. Only a sample can confirm if it actually is asbestos.

Our house was built in 1995. When we bought it, I raised my concerns about the Aretex type finish in every ceiling. Buyer said they get a survey but ended up sampling the coving instead. Ended up getting our own tests done when we moved in. Aertex was asbestos free.

I’m not an expert but I would expect one could probably recognise fairly easily a number of materials that likely contain asbestos based on appearance and date. Like the roofing on our garage and also an external chimney for an unused stove, both of which I’m pretty sure are asbestos-based (I’d worked out the former myself, the latter was pointed out by a builder doing unrelated work).

But unless it’s likely to be damaged/exposed in your house I’d probably leave it in place. I only dealt with a couple of spare bits of garage roofing cos they were lying around in the garden.

On the house we eventually pulled out of we had a full asbestos survey done.

The bloke who did it took about at least 8-10 samples from various places to be sent off for independent inspection.

Report came back and all of it contained some asbestos, mostly the OK stuff but a fair bit of the not-OK stuff.

Estimated at £22k for safe removal/disposal of all of it.

We had an asbestos survey done- they took samples of the soil pipe and floor tiles as that is what raised their suspicions.  1 type of floor tile had asbestos the other didnt they looked similar.

I’m not sure what your question is, but basically an asbestos survey is done to satisfy regulations in most cases. The survey will look at what has been done and when and will then take a view on what likelihood there is of asbestos having been used. They won’t take samples unless they think there is a likelihood of asbestos being used.

I’m saying this as the result of an asbestos survey I had done 3 years ago. No holes were drilled. He may have taken some paint scrapings. The same bloke did the fire safety assessment, so he wasn’t a real expert. It may be that our building is Victorian, so unlikely to have used asbestos. Your experience may be different for a building from the 1950s with a flat roof extension. I used to work in a building that was known to have lots of asbestos and we had stickers everywhere saying not to drill the walls. When some work was done it was all protective clothing and tents.

My suspicions are that it is all in the same vein as those energy assessments – a good earner for somebody and you just have to do it to sell property.

I’m concerned that I’m being charged 350 quid for an assessment that isn’t worth the paper it’s written on because no samples had been taken.

There are different type of survey, They used to be called Types 1,2 and 3 but i think its changed now.  They get progressively more intrusive.

Onza ^^^ are you confusing aertex with artex? Aertex ceilings would be breathable and unlikely to kill you…………

Just had asbestos removal contractors on site for last 2 weeks all done now.. point being the survey was an R & D level ( redevelopment and demolition) and is more destructive   most other sites have had a management level survey which will id locations of known or sus material so it can be ‘managed’ and left in place. Are you planning a lot of major works to the house? sounds like the guy did do what i would have expected it is bad stuff ad seems to be in everything from the past

onzadog first response is right. An experienced individual will be likely to know what has got asbestos in it, only a test will show. For example, some paints used asbestos, how you could tell what was painted on a wall some 25 years ago is anyone’s guess!

@frankconway – the dated swirly shit on the ceiling.

HI Op,

i manage the property compliance for a large group ((15000 property’s) including asbestos.

A management survey is designed to find or confirm acm’s that may be disturbed in ‘normal occupation’of the building. A experienced surveyor can make judgement calls using experience and knowledge of construction materials and sampling isn’t always required. Textured coatings should be presumed to contain asbestos unless age of construction is after 1999 although best practice is 2000/2001 to account for stocks held by builders.

In reality very little investigation or intrusive sampling will happen unless it is a rufurb or demolition survey. A refurb survey will be specific to a scope of works and investigate these areas. A demolition survey will aim to find all acms prior to it being ripped down.

It all comes down to the initial survey scope that you asked for and what the required outcome of the survey was. If you just asked for a survey then I’m not surprised that you have reviewed something of limited value to you.

Cost paid is very expensive for what you have received. For reference I pay around £100 for a management survey on a low rise block of flats.

If I can help further then let me know

Andy

If you’ve paid the £350 and they say no asbestos is present, then the company you’ve paid is taking the ownership of that statement.

Having delt with asbestos surveys of commercial buildings for 20yrs, this is pretty normal. Especially on more modern buildings. If built before the 1980s it’s rare it’ll come up with nothing present but again, not unheard of.

As regards how dangerous asbestos is, if its one of the two dangerous types, it’s only bad if you disturb it and inhale. If it’s in a board in your attic that you don’t touch, just leave it alone. If it’s in a wall you put lots of pins in, have it removed – a teacher successful sued her LEA after developing asbestosis from putting pins in the wall of her class room for 40yrs.

And that is the problem. The returned survey will be full of caveats and would never say no asbestos present unless a sample has been taken and confirmed as not containing asbestos.

It will also at the very front of the survey state that it is a management survey and if future work is taking place then further investigation would be required.

Management surveys are to meet your responsibilities under regulation 4 of the control of asbestos regs and should only be used for this. Unless it is a place of work or you are letting it out then it is of limited value…

Thank you all for your help.

I didn’t even know that Artex was potentially a source of asbestos! I lived in a house build in the late 80s and sanded / scraped off a kitchen ceiling covered in the stuff and I’m pretty sure I didn’t bother to take any precautions either.

Doh!

 I didn’t even know that Artex was potentially a source of asbestos!

After it was banned, they continued making materials that looked like the previous materials that had asbestos in it.

It was in quite a lot of stuff, they even made toilet seats out of what they once called the “magic mineral.”

Artex and textured coatings is a tricky one as often the asbestos was mixed in on site to add workability into the product. Result is it can be present in patches and not in others.

The only way to make sure is to take several samples across the wall/ceiling and to avoid representative sampling, which is taking one or two samples, and if non asbestos then presuming the rest to be the same. Most surveyors do this however so you need to understand the subject to fully understand a completed survey report and mitigate the risk correctly.

A good surveyor will take scrapes from different points on a wall/ceiling and submit as one sample and do this for each wall/ceiling.

Funny that comment about the teacher, we redeveloped a school a few years back, they had previously had some asbestos removal done which was the proper nasty pipe lagging stuff, but we decided to have another one done before demo and development One of the worst bits found was a panel in a door in the staff room which as above was full of pin holes! A lot of people (especially in construction, me included) will have breathed that shit in without realising, not all get ill some do….

Am I also right in thinking that asbestos is an exposure risk – ie the more exposure the higher the risk? So while having it in some artex might be in desirable, the odd screwhole for a wall bracket is one thing, widespread renovation is another? Or just don’t touch it at all?

I had an asbestos survey done about a month ago, as I’m having a new kitchen and bathroom fitted and the contractor wanted one doing. The surveyor dug a couple of small holes in the walls with a sharpened screwdriver and had a look under the floor coverings. The only thing he took away was when he took a tile off the wall in the bathroom, there was some papery looking substance. He bagged it up but said there and then that he didn’t think it was asbestos, he was just making sure. Bet he was only at mine for 10 minutes at the most.

Asbestos in artex almost certainly killed my dad. He was a painter and decorator that must’ve mixed up and slapped on literally tons of the stuff over the years without even thinking about asbestos or wearing protection. Started getting breathless in his mid 60’s. He’d never smoked and was quite fit for his age. Went for a chest X-Ray and the specialist told him he’d been exposed to asbestos and the prognosis wasn’t good. His breathing deteriorated over the next couple of years until he was diagnosed with mesothelioma. Died at 68 about 3 years after first feeling a bit ill but looking forward to his retirement in only a few months time.

I’m an asbestos surveyor.

What type of survey did you specify and for what reason?

A management survey is a survey which details the surface materials of your property that will be disturbed during normal use and is non instrusive.  A surveyor will use their knowledge of construction materials to visually assess the surface types and then take samples of suspicious items.  This includes negative sampling for items which may appear to be asbestos but are more modern non asbestos equivalents.

Therefore, I’d expect a management survey to at least find a couple of items to sample during a survey of a house.  Possible things are textured coarings to walls and ceilings, insulation boards, cement products, well bound materials such as vinyls and bitumens.  From experience of surveying domestic properties there would always be a felt, or sink pad or artex to sample somewhere.  Maybe your property didn’t have any of this.  Your server report should details each room’s surface type so check that first.

Challenge anything which has been entered as a visual sample and not physically sampled.  Be aware of anything which is detailed as an area of no access and if you need to access this at any point then suspect it may contain asbestos unless proven otherwise.