I picked and payed for my degree purely because it was something I wanted to study (philosophy).. I didn’t once consider my career options come the end of it…. Lucky really.

Given the plethora of science versus religion threads on here, perhaps compulsory philosophy courses for STW forumites are in order? 😉

I think the Scots have the perfect balance – two years of broad courses (including main subject) and two years to specialise.

Anyway this is a bit of a sideshow compared with the potential S-S in Europe isn’t it!!!

flanders reckons it will all work out in the end…….

and she too says france is the clef, shes a bit more optimistic about their economy too

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-20354081

What do you say to a media studies graduate? “Can I have a double skinny latte to go, please”

It’s all pretty irrelevant. Israel will probably kick off World War 3 and we’ll all be dead by the middle of next month just like the Mayan’s predicted.

Ask a Mayan about that, and all you’ll get is 🙄

and why I think higher education should be free to all. because imposing fees on students can severely limit individual freedom and scope to explore their own unique talents the way they should.

surely that is ok if only the very best, the creme of the crop, get to go to uni. if each student was now given a grant it would bankrupt the system.

i honestly don’t believe that we need to send more than 10-15% of school leavers to university in order to fill key jobs.

perhaps pay/subsidise those courses that cover the subjects key to furthering british industry and education.

Bloody hell, Keynes would love this thread

Still, at least we are not sat in trenches firing poison gas at each other.

surely that is ok if only the very best, the creme of the crop, get to go to uni. if each student was now given a grant it would bankrupt the system.

i honestly don’t believe that we need to send more than 10-15% of school leavers to university in order to fill key jobs.

Sorry we do, we need a high tech economy producing and designing the next big things. We don’t want an economy tailored to producing and exporting rubber dog shit.

Have you seen how different and more complex a nurses job is now compared to 50, 30 hell 15 years ago? They need to know their shit. It doesn’t take a high IQ to do well and be competent in academic fields. Unlike your generation I think a lot of the new generation understand this, how else do you explain classes around the world in bog standard state schools producing highly driven motivated students that are achieving in computer sciences, engineering, health, economics, geology etc? My current girlfriend went to a state school in the Philippines where practically everyone in her year ended up getting good degree’s at university because they work…really really **** hard. That year would have followed the normal distribution curve for intelligence!

What you’re doing is discouraging our current crop of students from competing with them, you want to dumb our economy down. Unless you want to be a factory line worker, a bricky, a chef, a squaddy or policeman you now NEED a degree – because most jobs now need people that can think critically and/or need training and academic competencies that meet certain standards that are best taught in a university setting (eg it’s much easier to train nurses centrally at universities and get standards the same throughout the board than it is to do ‘on the job training’).

Furthermore, education produces a more intelligent population. Get this, the brain is plastic. Yep that’s right, your capacity to learn and think is not set in stone by your genetics….it is in fact highly influenced by environmental factors. So, whilst the rest of the world gets more intelligent….would you rather that the UK’s average IQ/academic ability started to fall behind?

The problem with certain older generations is that they’re living in the **** stone age…..welcome to the brave new world! You want the best? Pay for it….spend it on the young as they’re your damn future….. and quit spending it on classic boomer love affairs like keeping codgers alive till they’re 106…. or shiny new submarines for the red faced Argentine hating tory supporters who still think we should be a world power.

Same shit storm working its way through the economy, why wouldn’t a re evaluation of property take years ?
Cash is King.

One day someone will wake up and realise – shitting hell, every pound penny and tenner is in one robbing tossers bank vault. I have an inherent problem with banks being a profit making business sector, because they are so integral and fundamentally important to the economy. Can’t they be regulated so that salaries are reasonable and are still reward driven but without sucking every last penny out of the country? I may be wrong but I think they’re beginning to realise that competing with each other to the degree they did in the 90’s is pointless because no one was going to have any money except the banks and then that would be the end of banking. Like a game of monopoly – you can’t carry on playing when one person wins all the paper money without printing more and thus ruining the point of playing the game in the first place.

Ironically enough, whilst they seem totally incapable of installing basic human rights in many of their countries, the Islamic banking system is probably the most well thought out and intuitive i’ve ever seen – at least in parts. In that system you have a reward structure for bankers and brokers, but not at the cost of widespread debt and the disgusting practices we see in our “democracy” where elderly people have their door kicked down by bailiffs for being a month late on their mortgage.

No doubt someone will bollock me for this, but bring it.

nukeproofriding – Member

where elderly people have their door kicked down by bailiffs for being a month late on their mortgage.

One example of this actually happening is all I ask.

One example of this actually happening is all I ask.

Oh bullshit! It happens all the time. It’s a disgusting practice and a thinly veiled excuse for pushing those who are already on the edge even further because large companies know that you don’t have a leg to stand on when you’re that poor in this country. No place for it in a supposedly civilised, 21st century country.

Mortgage owners fall through the gaping cracks in wellfare system because it’s more convenient for government to ignore them by pretending everyone who aspires to own their own home is filthy rich.

Meh…. sod all old people have mortgages. They paid them off years ago before house prices rocketed. The people that are getting kicked out of their homes are young families.

Yeah you’re right. Young families being effectively kicked out onto the street by paid thugs is medieval. You pay through the nose for the privilege of being able to then pay the mortgage company more money for a house that might be depreciating in value because few working people can afford to buy a house before they’re 35 or 40.

Just the one will be fine.

I’m not going to waste my time trying to change a mind made of breeze block Northwind. Bad quality, made with slave labor breezeblock.

It doesn’t seem that much to ask. I mean, you’ve got time for 2 posts of diversion and 1 of personal attacks, so one example shouldn’t strain you.

What you’re doing is discouraging our current crop of students from competing with them

Yeah I think the point is we need a balance of jobs available. You cant just decide that everyone will be a ‘techie’ computer genius from now on. We need a stable manufacturing marketplace that can compete with the EU but provide fair wages, a stable creative industry (we’ve pretty much got that and are world reknowned for that) stable farming, stable service, stable everything job industry. Difficult in a world where the cheapest bowl of rice is still yet to be discovered – mainly africa. But that is where you offer quality over quantity – something Britain used to offer in it’s steel, vehicle and boat building industries but which was lost because Brain dead zombies like thatcher wanted us to be an entirely service based economy. Pseudo intellectual chickens who all got an A* in customer interaction exams, in a steel shed answering phones all day so that she and her family could go hunting, and so her son could fund his various world wide war campaigns.

The point is we need to encourage and support our innovators, but provide opportunities to those who are suited to and want to be skilled labourers, or to have a craft. All our bloody school tests are utter nonesense if you ask me too.

It doesn’t seem that much to ask. I mean, you’ve got time for 2 posts of diversion and 1 of personal attacks, so one example shouldn’t strain you.

Bad quality, slave labour made breeze block.

[quote=nukeproofriding ]
Young families being effectively kicked out onto the street by paid thugs is medieval. [/quote]

Thank goodness I’m middle aged then.

Edit: Oh no, I forgot. I’ve already paid off my mortgage………….

Edit: Oh no, I forgot. I’ve already paid off my mortgage………….

Look I didn’t post to pick a fight with you, but you seem to love doing it. What do you want? A certificate? Not everyone is as rich in intellect or funds as you Druid… we simply can’t all be as great as you. And are you seriously denying there is a nationwide problem with middle aged, well employed people being unable to afford their mortgage?

Ah, so you’re not going to waste the time backing up something you stated as a fact, but you are going to waste the time repeating your refusal? It’d be quicker just to give the example which you surely have, really.

I’m denying there’s a spate of elderly people, young families (and now, apparently, middle aged folk too) having their doors kicked down by paid thugs and expelled onto the streets for the sake of having defaulted on a mortgage payment. There may be problems but making irrational, inflammatory and exaggerated claims about the scale of the problem is doing no one any good and marks you out as a bit of a loon.

^^^nukeproofing…. brilliant. not only do you ramble and abuse one guy you confuse the next for the first.

what is it with breeze blocks?

@nukeproofriding

Money doesn’t sit in bank vaults it’s lent, out to others in the form of mortgages, business loans etc. I do laugh about all these “banks have my money” I’m nearly 50 and have never had more money in a bank than I have borrowed (ie mortgage), I have investments but they are not held by a bank. So the bank doesn’t have my money I have theirs / somebody else’s

I appreciate you think bankers are overpaid, so keep your money in a building society account. BTW there are lots of professions making good money including the civil service.

People only get evicted when they fall materially behind in their mortgage payments, as above the loan doesn’t represent the banks money, it comes from a depositor – when you take a loan you are obliged to pay it back, I’d you don’t the bank is going to come after you on behalf of the person who’s money it is. This Is a bit of a simplification but it demonstrates the principle.

Yes we need a more diverse economy, let’s start rebuilding it before we dismantle one of the existing sectors

nukeproof has a point

banks will allways be robbing bstards
theyve been caught out lately too, fixing libor rates, (not forgetting misselling PPI to millions)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/9371150/Libor-scandal-may-have-cost-families-their-homes.html
and now it seems the gas and electric companies are doing the same

not to mention the payday loan(shark) ‘companies’ that all of a sudden seem to be legitimate – Wongas APR is over 4000% and they have close contact with No.10

im sure i read in the last year that repossessions had started going down again from their peak just after the crash, but with the majority of government cuts still to be brought in and no signs of the recession ending more are on the way

record increases in people going to food banks for help

There’s nothing wrong with Wonga, they have OAP puppets on there Ad’s

nukeproofing made a good point [ post pub??] and used a bad example

I’m nearly 50 and have never had more money in a bank than I have borrowed (ie mortgage),

Every single person in the world except the fantastically wealthy say this and this is the problem – the money we are spending is not there and you are confusing the lending sector of banking and the speculative [gambling??]sector of banking

BTW there are lots of professions making good money including the civil service.

Are you really claiming the pay structures within the civil service are in some way comparable to the pay systems used within the banking sector- that is as daft as nukeproofings example. Pehpas you just want to throw some mud at the public sector and drag them into this debate as if civil servants caused this problem rather than banking and they are the overpaid self serving tossers with the large bonuses and the absence of moral fibre

The credit card companies I have cards with keep putting my limits up without being asked so they can’t have learnt too much! I use them and transfer balance between them onto the 0% offers and pay them regularly but the amount I could spend on them is silly!

Loads of these payday loan shops have popped up recently in my town.. I dread to think what kind of debt people are running up for themselves. Yet I walk past them most days and they always seem busy.

There’s even some hugely derided store called ‘brighthouse’ recently openned on the highstreet. I looked in the window and they had a Laptop that argos were selling for just over £300. I roughly worked out the repayments in my head and that laptop, which you could walk away with today without a deposit would cost you £1345 overall !!

I just dont get how peoples need for the latest fad can overide their basic grip of home finance.

It’s a twin-pronged attack. You have the media glamourising the acquisition of goods, second properties, foreign holidays etc and then folk (like some of the above) shifting personal financial responsibility on to the money providers.

I’m denying there’s a spate of elderly people, young families (and now, apparently, middle aged folk too) having their doors kicked down by paid thugs and expelled onto the streets for the sake of having defaulted on a mortgage payment. There may be problems but making irrational, inflammatory and exaggerated claims about the scale of the problem is doing no one any good and marks you out as a bit of a loon.

No need to call me a loon really. You are quite remarkably detached from reality aren’t you? You may well want to make all your internet friends on this forum believe you live in an impenetrable middle class bubble, and I doubt you do – but there are people out there being forced to sell their house and move into rented accommodation if they can afford it, split their family and live with friends or live in a family shelter provided by a charity. That is happening. Right now. If you don’t believe that then I’m just lost for words.

nukeproofing made a good point [ post pub??] and used a bad example

Yes, sorry it was a terrible example.

elzorillo – Member

I just dont get how peoples need for the latest fad can overide their basic grip of home finance.

If you look back a couple of pages it appears that finding ways of persuading people to do just that is one of our larger exports.

It was meant as an indicator of how you are coming across on this thread. Whether you are, or aren’t, I can’t tell from this side of my PC.

You are quite remarkably detached from reality aren’t you? You may well want to make all your internet friends on this forum believe you live in an impenetrable middle class bubble

For someone who has been on this forum for less than a week you seem to have formed a remarkably strong opinion about many of the posters. Me – middle class?

Where was that thread that popped up listing shops with 0% finance?

For someone who has been on this forum for less than a week

Why is this such a major sticking point? I’m not allowed to comment on a topic because i’ve been on the forum less than a week lol? What is this? The Bullingdon club?

I think there are fair points to be made about individuals managing their finances poorly – getting dragged into things they can’t afford, which is entirely their fault and as such they are at the mercy of their creditors. But there are larger nationwide issues that if solved would alleviate some of those problems. Even those who have a tight belt on their finances and don’t spend on extravagances – but don’t have cushy jobs are being squeezed more than ever. Meanwhile small businesses are paying ever higher tax and vat rates, higher rental bills for their premises and Phillip Green is jetting around monaco paying a fraction of the tax percentage that a small british business does. Their gas and electricity bills are going up, fuel’s ridiculously expensive, many of them are still suffering from the previous banking generations colossal cock up with mortgages that went rotten and a subsequent price hike in apr. And all the time they are expected to work harder, for less.

The banks need to lend more to individuals and sensible businesses with a fair rate of return that ensures that they cover their wages and costs, but not billions of profit. Our country cannot survive on an entirely banking based economy, but we’re supposed to be grateful that they’re here. The fact is they need us as much as we need them, and they aren’t going to disappear anytime soon, regardless of whether they pay their fare share of tax. This is especially true when foreign baking marketplaces are growing larger than our own, and do it with less risk. Their gambling divisions need to be put on a leash, and their ‘bonuses’ need to be based on performance and the stability of the countries economy they mine for profit. If they **** up, they **** up and it’s at their own cost – not ours.

That wasn’t my point though, was it?

@junkyard – banks have got into trouble because of bad lending not this “gambling” nonesense, HBOS, Northern Rock, Alliance and Leicester, Bradford and Bingley – these banks only have retail and commercial arms – they don’t do “gambling”. RBS bought ABN Amro at an inflated price (ABN had done lots of bad lending) – none of these failure have anything tondo with “gambling”.

@nukeproof – banks lent too much, they need to lend less – this is the painful reality. On situations like Phillip Green or more accurately his wife, is agree totally they (legally) avoided £500m in uk tax, the rules need to be changed.

Wonder why construction is doing so badly? The only other person I know in construction is run off their feet and can’t cope with the workload coming in (winning 30-40% of bids, normally win 5-15%). All of the engineering/manufacturing firms I deal with through work are run off their feet at the moment and quoting 3-6week lead times when just 6 months ago they were quoting 1 week. Seems like things are on the up in my current sector?

I’m led to believe that there are lots of openings for thugs. Essential skills include kicking doors in and throwing folk out onto the streets. Being able to do this without attracting any attention from neighbours or the media will be taken into account during the selection process.

nukeproofriding in ‘not being new’ shocker….