Are all small children arseholes?

My dad’s cure when my elder brothers and myself decided to misbehave, fight ,bicker or be disrespectful was to clump us equally around the back of the earhole. And , I can assure you, I didn’t love him any the less for it .

Oh, believe me.  It’s tempting.

My parents used hitting (substitute with your favourite euphemism, smacking, clipping, clumping, etc but remember they all mean hitting) as their preferred form of discipline.

Prior to having my own kids I used to think it was understandable and that I deserved it.  After having my own kids I realised that hitting kids isn’t anything to do with discipline.  It’s frustration, pure and simple.

Someone is annoying you so you hit them.  I’m sure they’d do the same to adults they found annoying if they thought they could get away with it.

Kind of crazy that England still allows people to hit their kids in this day and age.  Too many people who got hit as kids and have internally normalised it, I guess.

Kind of crazy that England still allows people to hit their kids in this day and age.  Too many people who got hit as kids and have internally normalised it, I guess.

Reading this thread with interest, even though my kids are now well and truly grown up (mid 30s) so selective memory has filtered out a lot of the challenging parts of parenting.  I think you’ve made a few pertinent points Brucewee, most of which I agree with, but I do wonder why yet again, you feel the need to attribute negative connotations to England in a thread where it’s not really relevant.  I know the law on physically disciplining kids is different in Scotland (correctly so imo), but do you really think that’s because more English people were hit and have “internally normalised” it than in Scotland or elsewhere?

Actually with my father it was not frustration, it was to do with respect. You were expected to behave and be respectful to others, particularly adults. Verbal warnings were usually given unless your transgression was , in his opinion, beyond that stage . I will also add that my father was brought up in a working class household in Middlesbrough and was probably influenced by his own upbringing.

The highs and lows of being a parent are like no other.

Its hard, its joyful, its painful.

All i can say is i had engrained in me many of my fathers parenting traits (which i now realise were pretty shite), after reading this…

https://www.wob.com/en-gb/books/philippa-perry/book-you-wish-your-parents-had-read-and-your-children-will-be-glad-that-you-did/9780241250990?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjww5u2BhDeARIsALBuLnP5XM_O2DFxgSmJKELjy4UtAN83w-UHa4OBWYvO6TL3cWPxQZyv2GIaAtskEALw_wcB#GOR009731535

it has changed my life, the way i parent and my outlook on it all. Its available as an audio book too, should you not have time to read. I cannot recommend it enough.

Using fear as a parenting tool is not healthy. Your kids should want to ‘be good’ due to learning, respect and love, not because they think they will get a beating from their parents.

and was probably influenced by his own upbringing.

I think we all are.  My Dad ‘smacked’ us a fair bit.  I think he thought it was the right thing to do, as his dad had done with him. Growing up in the 1930s and 40s it was pretty much the norm, so I certainly don’t ‘blame’ him. I don’t think it taught me respect or any of the other guff attributed to it. I respected my Dad because he was honest, hardworking, loved my Mum and took an interest in us kids. I respected him despite the occasional backhand. If there had been much more of it, it would have seriously eroded that respect.

I think I lightly smacked ours once or twice, instantly regretted (and still feel guilty about) it and vowed to stop, which I did.  I don’t think elements of bad parenting, like ‘smacking’ are an unbreakable cycle, but I do think there is a subconscious tendency to revert to what you know, especially as new parents.  It takes some emotional effort to question what you were told was right as a child and to reject it.

I’ll just say that you were expected to be respectful in our house when I was growing up and that’s what I was. I didn’t smack my own kids when they were growing up but I didn’t need ( or want to) but they are certainly two of the nicest and respectful adults I know.

Prior to having my own kids I used to think it was understandable and that I deserved it. After having my own kids I realised that hitting kids isn’t anything to do with discipline. It’s frustration, pure and simple.

That resonates. “It never did me any harm” was my attitude. Never did it with the eldest. One awful day with the youngest I was at the end of my tether, think was refusing to stay still for a nappy change, and I slapped her fairly gently on the leg.

We were both shocked. For a brief moment I saw hurt, confusion and then stubbornness cross her face. I just felt ashamed that I’d done it out of my own tiredness and frustration.

Never did it again. Was firm when necessary but never resorted to violence again. Still feel awful for doing it now, 15-16 years later.

but I do wonder why yet again, you feel the need to attribute negative connotations to England in a thread where it’s not really relevant.

I didn’t mean to have a pop at England.  Given Scotland and Wales changed the law about 5 minutes ago I don’t think that’s much to boast about in terms of normalisation.

It was more just because England is in increasingly isolated company when it comes to hitting your kids.  I do wonder if most people in England are generally aware of how few countries still allow it in Europe.

I guess I should mention it’s still legal in NI but who knows what they do there.

Actually with my father it was not frustration, it was to do with respect.

I’m pretty sure my parents would have given me a similar explanation.  Same with my friends whose parents hit them.

Talking to my friends though, one peculiar thing pops out in almost all cases.  Whatever behaviour was causing the hitting didn’t really stop.  The hitting stopped though.  In all cases it was either because we got bigger or because the parents came close to being on the wrong end of the ‘child’ suddenly deciding they could throw their hands too.

It’s fine having lofty ideals that justify why you hit your kids.  The real test is if you are going to stick to your ideals once you realise your kids are going to kick the shit out of you if you try hitting them again.

Kinda get what you’re saying there but…..by the time I was bigger I had realised that it was my behaviour that had created situations where a wallop was administered and I didn’t behave like that any more.
( My dad was also built like a brick privy )

My son is in elementary school. I know a lot of people with a lot of children. although the catchment area is wide,  most of its intake of the school is from one pretty homogenized and small neighbourhood. It’s a “nice” area.

however, there seems to be no rhyme nor reason to the way an individual child will behave. To assume that a child’s behaviour is entirely down to how they have been raised or that their behaviour in public is the same as at home is just wrong.

not sure what I’m trying to say, but some kids are not too bright, but very polite. Others are bright as buttons, but really struggle with going to school. Some can’t help but destroy things, while their siblings are gentle and kind.

if you have good or easy children you are lucky. If you have a child with big issues, you are unlucky. If you aren’t a natural parent (something you’ll probably discover too late!) you are unlucky. If you’re a great parent but your partner isnt, you are also unlucky.

i have a good child. He’s not easy and is Incredibly strong willed. I struggle at times. What I found most disheartening was that when I was initially struggling the information that I got from parenting books was exactly what I was doing, but it wasn’t working for us. However at school he is engaged in the lessons, popular with his classmates and well behaved.

My recent struggle is getting him to brush his teeth in the morning. I could say to myself, they are his teeth. If he doesn’t brush them, ultimately it’s not my problem.  Unfortunately, that doesn’t sit well with me, so I persist with the struggle. It’s bloody frustrating.

still don’t know what I’m trying to say, but it’s difficult, with all the information that we have easy access to these days it can quickly become perplexing. There is more that one parenting technique and not all parenting techniques work with all children. A neighbour has great success with punishment and reward (naughty step/gold stars kind of thing) while another using the same approach just gets entrenched in battles. Some children don’t want to be controlled in that fashion or end up getting confused by being rewarded for doing the things that they really should just be doing as part of a family (getting a treat for tidying up their toys for example).

Anyway, family holidays are more like business trips than they are like the holidays you enjoyed before you had children.  They can still be enjoyable, but they won’t be the same.

TLDR, parenting is difficult and people are better at it than others. All children are different, don’t respond to the same parenting techniques and are pretty much born with their personalities.

If my kids refused to do something that is obviously a good thing for them like: brush their teeth or go to bed. I’d have the usual discussion with them and show them pictures online of people’s rotten teeth etc. if they persisted, I’d start to remove everything they enjoy, one thing at a time. Sounds harsh but I’m afraid if they are going to live under my roof, they’re going to do what I say, especially when it’s something that will genuinely be beneficial for them.

Best thing is to just speak with them, and explain things logically, I hated being told to do something as a kid without any proper reasoning behind it.

I’d start to remove everything they enjoy, one thing at a time. Sounds harsh but I’m afraid if they are going to live under my roof, they’re going to do what I say, especially when it’s something that will genuinely be beneficial for them.

yes, you’d think that this would work, wouldn’t you?

pictures of rotten teeth are a good idea, but I’d probably have to clean up the vomit afterwards!

I’m at my Mum’s at the moment, my sister and her two girls (8 & 10) arrived yesterday.

The girls are of the age where they can be smart, funny, intelligent and genuinely kind.

But they’re also in constant competition with each other, any perceived unfairness results in an argument and they’re incapable of walking through the house without one of them tapping, tickling or pulling the hair of the other.

A: OWW, you pulled my hair!!

B: did NOT (blatant lie)

A: /punches B in retaliation

B: OWWW, that REALLY hurt! /sobs. I only pulled your hair a bit and you really thumped me!!

Repeat 10 minutes later.

but I do wonder why yet again, you feel the need to attribute negative connotations to England in a thread where it’s not really relevant.

Such a weird comment. Especially as you answer your own question right afterwards.( That the law is different.)

Kids are tough. My boys squabble then play nicely then squabble. I remember doing the same with my sister.

Hitting kids doesn’t work. I was hit as a child an it never stopped me doing things. Hitting a child is a parents frustration and to my mind demonstrates the parent can’t control their emotions. If a manager hit an employee they’d be out on their ear. Hitting a child is the same abuse of power. Don’t get me wrong I’ve shouted and lost my temper but it’s never resorted to violence. I can’t tell my kids not to hit then hit them…. Talk about mixed messages.

Anyway my kids are hard work and frustrate me from time to time but they’re also great and bring me great joy.

Such a weird comment. Especially as you answer your own question right afterwards.( That the law is different.)

@thegeneralist No, read it again. I didn’t answer my own question. I acknowledged that the law was different, but I felt that the person I was quoting was implying the law hadn’t been changed in England, because English people had ‘internally normalised’ hitting kids in a way people in the other parts of the UK hadn’t.  He clarified that he didn’t mean that and all was good. Is that OK with you?

Phillipa Perry’s book is really good! It’s not the answer to everything (and it’s not always easy to do as she advises) but she explains parenting far better than I could.

Isn’t this exactly what kennels were invented for..?