Are all small children arseholes?

For all the people who’s kids are arseholes, who brought them up and gave them values?

You might have a darling angel but don’t for a minute think you’re some kind of superdad and the rest of us are the real arseholes.  Did you choose the genetics you or your kids came with?  Did you get to choose your own early life experiences and the behaviour of your own parents that you somehow subconsciously absorbed and repeat even though you hate it and yourself because of it?  Did you get to choose the life events you had no control over that forced you into making some very difficult decisions that are still impacting your family?

Your life and your kids are great.  Awesome.  Very happy for you.

This is obviously a place to vent for people who have just been through incredibly stressful experiences and are possibly dealing with larger problems that you can’t even comprehend with your perfect little life with your son who seems quite happy to let you live vicariously through him.

So, can I just ask that people who have just had an awesome holiday with their awesome kids and decided to come to this thread to tell us we must be shit parents to kindly **** off.

I already know I’m a shit parent.  I’m trying very hard to fix that and, possibly more importantly, stop beating myself up for being a shit parent.  It’s more difficult when others feel the need to jump in and confirm my own assessment.

Thanks to everyone who is sharing their honest holiday experiences.  It helps a lot to know it’s not just us.  Maybe when I’ve mentally recovered I can share a bit.

@BruceWee – I mean the clues are all there with this response. It’s no wonder you’re having a tough time with your kids when you can’t even handle a discussion on a forum with getting het up.

I already know I’m a shit parent. I’m trying very hard to fix that and, possibly more importantly, stop beating myself up for being a shit parent.

I’m really sorry you feel that way. All of us are simply trying to do our best with our kids the best we know how, all of us have **** it up royally at some point, even those who think they have super kids. The damn things don’t come with instructions and what worked for the first won’t work for the second.

There’s no such thing as perfect, beating yourself up for past mistakes won’t change the past. Focus on fixing the future, which is a slow process. Reach out for support on here and you’ll find it among the misplaced humour and general bollocks.

@BruceWee – I mean the clues are all there with this response. It’s no wonder you’re having a tough time with your kids when you can’t even handle a discussion on a forum with getting het up.

Perhaps I should switch things up and try to become more passive-aggressive.

How did that work out with your kids?

Some of our holidays with the boys when they were little were horrendous and we even aborted 2 after a couple of days and came home and then I found the secret….. Leave the wife at home. We have dogs and someone needed to look after them so for about 3 years I took the boys off and she stayed home and it was bliss. I realised it was her who couldn’t handle stress and made every situation unbearable. We had 3 really great holidays where I let the boys actually do what they wanted and sacked off the tiresome trips round stately gardens or what ever and it was so much easier.  I was also happy to just wing it and go home a bit earlier or in one case later than we had planned dependant on when the boys had had enough.

Sometimes everybody can be an arsehole, doesn’t matter what age we are.

The problem with deciding if your own kids are nice people or not is we are all pre-programmed to like and protect our young or the species would die out. Some people I know sing the praises about how wonderful little Jonny is when in reality, everybody else thinks they he is an arsehole. The parents just have a massive blind spot to it.

@brucewee – hank you, you have written what I was struggling to put into words, politely. We have some complex health and developmental factors involved in some of the issues we are experiencing, but I don’t owe any random super parent that info.

I, like many, vent on here now and again, as a safe space and try to ignore the sanctimonious few and appreciate the general support here. Though it is sometimes harder than others to ignore the perfect/ feel worse for the input.

Crikey…this thread is getting a little dark..

I don’t have kids, but I once was a kid. When I was 5 or so I undoubtedly misbehaved and pissed my parents off constantly. It’s what kids do. It has nothing to do with my parents who are brilliant, evidenced by the fact my brother was fine. And I as I got older I grew out of it.

Stop beating yourselves all up about bad parenting.  And likewise if your kids never act like dicks, don’t feel too smug. It’s probably got very little to do with you..

My wife consistently offers to take son+partner and grandchildren (3+5) on holiday but then remembers what hell it is until the next time even though I remind her that last time we needed a holiday on our own to recover. The children can be cute and charming or malevolent trolls but that’s kids. I find their parents more consistently annoying.

Crikey…this thread is getting a little dark..

Yup, read the wrong comment on the wrong morning.  Sorry about that.

I think some families need routine (like really need routine) in order to function tolerably well.  The problem with summer holidays is that this is always going to disrupt the routine regardless of what you try to do and this is inevitably going to lead to problems.  My thinking is, you’re going to have problems anyway so you might as well go somewhere with a beach and some sun.

In recent years I’ve tried to make the focus of the holiday letting the kids spend time as much time as possible with their extended family.  We’re kind of lucky (but also kind of not) in that they all live so far away that getting together with the cousins is an exiting event.  Sure, it just means you’re introducing more kids for your kids to fight with but at least it’s different kids.

I think my kids are struggling a bit to be accepted where we’re living.  The thing I like about the extended family is there are people who are forced to accept you whether they like it or not.  I think my kids at least find that kind of reassuring.

Overall the holidays are still generally a complete shit show which sees me finding somewhere quiet to drink until I pass out at least twice over the course of the three weeks but I do like the fact it reinforces for my kids there are people who will accept them no matter what.

I guess everyone eventually figures out the least worst option for themselves.

Oh man I wish I was such a perfect parent with such perfect little darlings that are too scared to have and show emotions and feelings of their own for fear of upsetting the perfect parenting.

Our kids are mostly well behaved, kind and considerate. But they can also be complete arseholes who don’t like it when the answer is no and seem to know just the right way to wind us up.

The thing with being on holiday is that for most of it you are all stuck together day and night, in a little bubble, in each others pockets, away from routine and home comforts and things that normally might not bother you can all build up. There’s noone to vent to because the people you are with are the people you are pissed off by. So you come to your friendly internet forum to seek reassurance that you are not alone, only to be told that you are in fact a shit parent.

Be responsible.

CHOOSE your response.

Both here and far more importantly (as you are more than aware of) on hols with the fam

Have fun

Be responsible.

CHOOSE your response.

Both here and far more importantly (as you are more than aware of) on hols with the fam

Have fun

You could also CHOOSE not to share your feelings on a thread where people have had experiences you can’t even begin to understand.

Just sayin.

By the way, anyone who thinks their biggest problems with their kids is that they are really expensive and they take up a lot of time is showing that they don’t really have any problems with their kids.  To the extent that they don’t even know what a problem is.

Kids being expensive and time consuming isn’t a problem.  It’s a description of what kids are.

It’s like a lottery winner telling all the poor people in the world they really don’t understand what they are complaining about.

Yep, just saying.

We have some complex health and developmental factors involved in some of the issues we are experiencing, but I don’t owe any random super parent that info.

But it might have tempered responses if you’d added that detail in your original post. I’m lucky in that I never had to face those problems with my kids to any great degree but I do have a severely autistic nephew so am not blind to the issues that some families can face. Best of wishes to anyone who has to cope with those sorts of difficulties, I really don’t think I would be able to cope myself.

I’ve one at 17 and one at 30. Very proud of both. But i have to say, i think  teenagers who regularly hang out with parents is a bit weird. It may be great when they are young to do fun stuff with them but after a certain age its time they start to find their own way in life.

I’m on holiday with my two daughters and wife at the moment and it’s been fine.

Except the youngest is recovering from Covid and still has the cough so sleep is quite disrupted for all four of us in a tiny apartment.

I’m bored so it’s probably me being the pain at the moment! All inclusive beach holidays aren’t really my thing, but the kids and wife are enjoying so it’s fine.

Anyway, my unsolicited advice is: don’t worry about being “the best dad” or “a brilliant father”. Be “Average Dad”. Average is good enough.

Did you choose the genetics you or your kids came with?

I mean…  you DO actually choose the genetics of your kids don’t you? You chose to pass on your own genetics and you chose who you mate with. Procreating is an active choice  🙂

Some of my parents in laws mates have 5 kids.

In conversation they said that the first 4 (girls) were absolutely perfect in every way and number 5 ( boy) was an absolute nightmare. They said if number 1,2,3 or 4 had been like number 5 there would not have been another.

It’s comforted me numerous times when my wee one had been less than perfect, that people who can successfully parent 4 kids in a row get number 5 so spectacularly different.

So it not just down to the parents. It’s also down to the individual kids.

So when/ if my kids do any of the stuff that my grandparents, aunts uncles, me or my sister did it won’t all be my fault.

I’ve been listening to some stuff about ancient greece. The poetry seems to be full of complaints about people being  dicks to each other. The history is full of people being dicks to each other.

It’s just people

i think  teenagers who regularly hang out with parents is a bit weird. It may be great when they are young to do fun stuff with them but after a certain age its time they start to find their own way in life.

I was always quite happy NOT to find my own way in life when it involved an all expenses paid holiday to a Greek island, or the Alps, or the Caribbean…

I was a boundary pushing wind up merchant as a child and I took pride in it at the time. Everytime, my daughter stares me directly in the eyes and continues to do the thing I explicitly asked her not to, I have to respect her for it and accept that this is what I deserve.

For those with perfect kids. Yours will be the ones that are utter **** to everyone else and despised by the other kids and parents at school. Nobody is perfect and everyone is a proper **** at times. To not be would not be normal. On my way home tonight a kid pushed another kid in front of me whilst riding my bike. I bet the parents think their kid is great and wouldn’t put a foot wrong, little angel etc.

As previous posts, my kids are well rounded and a delight to be around 90% of the time. I’m under no illusions that they can be right pricks at times though. To not accept this and to deride others for being open and honest about it is, quite frankly, a bit pathetic. Everyone accepts that other people’s kids are really annoying. Guess what, so are yours! Most folk are just blind to it or unable to accept it.

I already know I’m a shit parent. I’m trying very hard to fix that and, possibly more importantly, stop beating myself up for being a shit parent.

Yep feel this way all too often. Can feel like becoming a parent was a enormous mistake – a mistake to bring two more beings into the world who are just like me and will have the same difficulties I do, if not more so. Think the best advice was about letting go of how you expect children to behave properly and just let them enjoy life as much as possible without sweating the details, set sensible boundaries – sensible as defined by realistic expectations of children’s behaviour! Letting them be who they are without shaming them for their differences as it’s us they need to feel safe with.

Also what MoreCashThanDash said.

Our holiday improved after a couple of early nights for them. Had a great last couple of days (although not without blips), before driving home. Couldn’t believe how well behaved they were in the car – unbelievable!

Totally normal, there isn’t really a good age with kids, they can be arseholes at any age. Obviously they are also incredibly good fun when they’re on form and are definitely worth weathering the storm for. Most rewarding thing I’ve ever done is have kids.

I’ve had my 14 year old daughter screaming at her 11 year old brother because he dared walk into the kitchen bare foot after football.

It’ll all smiles and rainbows tomorrow, and today will be just a memory.

Kids.

Did you get to choose your own early life experiences and the behaviour of your own parents that you somehow subconsciously absorbed and repeat even though you hate it and yourself because of it? Did you get to choose the life events you had no control over that forced you into making some very difficult decisions that are still impacting your family?

Your life and your kids are great. Awesome. Very happy for you.

This is obviously a place to vent for people who have just been through incredibly stressful experiences and are possibly dealing with larger problems that you can’t even comprehend with your perfect little life with your son who seems quite happy to let you live vicariously through him

I didn’t know we were not allowed to disagree, sorry.

However, I’m not sure it’s really necessary to start having a pop just because my life differs to yours.

You know very little about my life circumstances and how I ended up where I am and who I am today. I’m a better person for them and for getting past them and trying my best.

I’ll stay out of threads like this and go back to just cycling ones, this one leaves a very bitter aftertaste.

To be fair @weeksy this comment “For all the people who’s kids are arseholes, who brought them up and gave them values?” Is a bit pissy is it not? So might want climb down off your moral high horse there?

I’m the OP, I have added some context, but at their ages it is hard to separate what could be normal for age or related to diagnosis/ condition, which was also part of my reason for posting  along with needing a vent in a supposed safe and supportive forum.

Sorry if you feel you need avoid this thread, it has been equally helpful for me (and others hopefully) and somewhat saddening to have people point out its clearly my parenting fails that are the cause of my current situation, without context, like you bemoan above.

Yeah there’s a few responses on this thread which try to frame all this as if the only feeling some members have toward their children is that they’re arseholes.

I’m pretty sure I don’t speak only for myself when I say that is not the case, and there’s numerous responses to back this up.

Daltrey said it best, “the kids are alright”

We’re the dicks, messed up by our own parents.

I’m just trying to make sure, the inevitable mistakes I make with my kids are different than the ones my parents made with me.

Has this thread turned into a ‘nature vs nurture’ debate?

Anyhoo, IME, kids are just small people who haven’t learnt to control and suppress their raw emotions, wants and needs. Yeah, this can be annoying at times, but in the most part, it’s great. It makes us boring adults feel young again and makes us smile more.

You know very little about my life circumstances and how I ended up where I am

And yet you chose to criticise other while knowing nothing about them.

And yet you chose to criticise other while knowing nothing about them.

Welcome back… i’ve missed you.

I’ll stay out of threads like this

That went well then.

When my kidsl bicker and both come to me to sort it out, rather than listen to both cases and then passing judgement. I’d tell them that they needed to negotiate with other to come to a resolution by themselves. Seems to work, and also allows them to learn how to negotiate as well as understand that is life, there won’t always be a authoritive figure. who will sort things out for them. If one of them has done something genuinely wrong, then this would need to dealt with as a seperate issue.

.

Documentary about Scottish kids:

Well this thread was always going to take unkindly with anyone who has had a different experience with kids. Popping ones head above the parapet and posting about this will always appear sanctimonious. However it still needs said IMO.

However it still needs said IMO.

What needs to be said?  That if your kids are arseholes it’s because you made them arseholes?

I’m not sure if that needed saying, tbh.  I don’t even think the OP really meant, ‘My kids are arseholes’ but rather, ‘My kids are currently behaving like arseholes and it’s driving me crazy.’

When your kids have you at the end of your tether it can genuinely feel like you are the only person in the world that has ever felt this way.  No one else experiences this and there must be something fundamentally wrong with you to have created such monsters.

The reactions on the first couple of pages show that this feeling of being the only bad parent in the world is actually incredibly common.

Sure, there are a few parents who have magically managed to produce offspring who never drive them mental but I suspect they are in the minority.  Personally, if those parents want to pop up and say, ‘My kids are fine’ then OK.  I might be very jealous but everyone is free to voice their experiences.

If, however, these people feel the need to pop up and say, ‘My kids are fine, you must be bad parents’ then they can get in the sea.

By the way, do anyone else’s kids do this?

Sometimes my 8 and 11 year old are fine playing together. Other times they are a bit fed up with each other so go to different places and do their own thing.  Other times (and this seems to be their default behaviour during the holidays) they can’t stand the sight of each other but they also can’t stand to be separated by more than a metre.

Cue literally constant arguments, punches, kicks, scratching, shouting, screaming, etc that no amount of mediation or forced separation can fix.

They hate each other but also can’t be apart from each other.  In retrospect it’s probably some kind of reaction to the stress of new surroundings and new routines and honestly, it’s kind of endearing.  Endearing but only in retrospect.

At the time the only thing that keeps me sane is fantasising about jumping off a fourth floor balcony and finally putting an end to the torture.  That and booze.

My dad’s cure when my elder brothers and myself decided to misbehave, fight ,bicker or be disrespectful was to clump us equally around the back of the earhole. And , I can assure you, I didn’t love him any the less for it .

My kids  (12.5yo boy and 7yo girl) have been pretty darn good on all of our recent holidays even including an 03:00 start an 02:00 return on the recent trip and 17h of travelling and an 11h flight on the previous trip.  They were quiet, well behaved, read and watched ipads and played quiet games.

They do occasionally  fight and bicker, but the kids know not to infringe upon Wheaton’s Law (Rule 1 – Don’t be a dick) and can recite it.  Whichever one does, they’re reprimanded and usually don’t do it again as they know there’s a rising scale of punishment.

They were MUCH better behaved than all of the other kids around them on the return flight home.

Almost all of the bad behavior we saw both on holiday and on the flight was caused by badly prepared or distracted parents (I’m not saying that’s you BruceWee).  Ipads out of power, 1 toy to share with multiple kids, noisy toys or games, not booking seats together on the plane – who does this?

I’d also agree that most French kids were better behaved than the UK/German/Indian tourists we saw.  Not all but a lot.

I also agree with not overworking them.  We do 1 day adventures and 1 day at home (pool, snacks, games, reading, etc) on a rolling schedule and every second adventure day is decided on by the kids.  This gives them things to look forwards to and have a stake/say in what’s going on.