Are all small children arseholes?

Make sure the activates are relentless, physically demanding and their little feet don’t touch the ground to meal and bed times!

Ours were regularly right little shits on holiday. Like, to the extent they nearly ruined several with their constant bickering and obtuseness.

Lack of structure (boredom) was the problem I reckon.

As above, knacker them out by any means possible!

Also as above don’t beat yourself up if you need an easy exit (telly/games console)

Sometimes they need splitting up also, with ours, the downward spiral was definitely worse with them both involved

Sometimes they need splitting up also, with ours, the downward spiral was definitely worse with them both involved

My nieces are much better now (aged 10 & 8) but for a few years the younger one was glued to the elder and they’d move around the house as a duo, bickering.

Whatever the elder did, the younger would copy and you could guarantee that if they were sitting there doing a colouring book, the elder would pick up a pen and the younger would immediately be “I was just about to use that, I want that one, WWAAAAAAHHHHH!” and try to snatch it off her.

Pointing out that there were 100 other pens on the table didn’t help…

In the end, my sister and BiL would take them off for separate activities.

0xytocin.  preventing infanticide since we fell out of the trees in Africa

@crazy-legs we do that, took elder for a cafe bike ride yesterday and he was almost human. We sometimes feed them in separate rooms to try and reduce the mealtime angst 🙂

We regularly get the described I was just using that situation.  When they grow up I may go work for the UN, sure my negotiation skills will come in useful.

Holidays with kids are about keeping everyone happy and it’s a nightmare.

When ours were little, eldest wanted a steam train ride, youngest wanted a cafe and play area at the end of it. Bedtime routine stayed similar. No huge dramas, just same hard work in a different location.

Currently at the Fringe with youngest, who is now 17. Show, cafe, show, book shop, show, cafe. Definitely better.

Good points here about children needing stimulating activity, just when parents might want to do very little/slow down, about constant physical activity outdoors and about splitting siblings regularly…

I remember hearing the head of a large youth work organisation, that delivered hundreds of residential activity weeks, commenting that he and his wife used to plan family holidays well in advance with a timetable for the week, with wet weather alternatives. He reflected that while it probably sounded a bit ‘anal’, they’d discovered the alternative was to have to ad lib it, which was far more stressful and tiring.

Our boys 5 & 8 have been an absolute nightmare this summer. The fighting, sand throwing,  general bickering backchat. We  all are squeezed into a small van for 4 weeks so it’s 90% our fault I’m sure.
It doesn’t help that the all the French kids around us are impeccably behaved.

Consequences are important, cancel the holiday and go home, maybe it’s what they wanted all along though! Master manipulators kids, glad I skipped them.

What you need is other kids. Which will be easier once they are older

lakes there was always one other family with kids the same age

Once we started camping in the Scillies it was suddenly easy. Imogen would rock up at our tent at 9:00, I’d say “shoes on off the campsite and don’t go in the sea without an adult”. They then  appear 4 times a day to be taken for swims and food.

Taking my niece who was between our 2 in age was easier than just the 2 of them

I find that most stresses with kids.involve getting them to adhere to routines: bedtime, getting dressed, leaving the house at x time. On holiday you don’t need those routines, even if it means that the day out you planned ends up shorter or not happening just take it in your stride and the holiday will be much more relaxing.

Screen time for them and alcohol for you helps too.

Are you somewhere with a kids club? Our boys are 13 months apart, when they were the age yours are we went to your typical family oriented all inclusive type places. Not because we wanted to, but because life was so much easier and fun for the kids.

Meals – chicken nuggets, salmon flakes, grapes, and chocolate fountain all on the same plate? Fill yer boots!

Mates – Neither of them ever wanted to go to kids club but by lunch on the first day they didn’t want to leave. Made lots of friends, and wanted to play with them after club too.

Missus – The wife and I got to relax and spend some time together, as well as meet other parents in the same situation. Evenings generally meant kids all running round together and/or watching a show of some kind, while parents loaded up on whatever local booze was available.

Once we stopped beating ourselves up for not being together 24×7 everyone relaxed and had a great time.

What’s wrong with you all I absolutely loved going on holiday with my boys at that age & that was just me & 3 boys, usually camping* near a beach & having no end of fun.

* I’d worked out it was cheaper to camp & eat out every day rather than pay for a holiday home where I’d still be doing all the cooking and cleaning.

Admittedly the eldest did go a bit Kevin & Perry in his teens ?

@tonyd – funnily enough we were discussing something like that last night. Think we going try next year, w might even get a break!

We live England and sort of need come home/ ireland to see aging family for holidays,  more constrained timings now eldest in school. But means limits support/ package trips activities.

@dickyboy I’m genuinely pleased you had such an awesome time, I’ll have a think and get back to you once I figure out what’s wrong with me and my current situation, cheers.

They’re not all little shits, but they all have the capacity. As others have said there’s a sweet spot about 6-8 where they’re self starting enough to be trusted to do stuff by themselves without ensuing death, but still up for adventures, and haven’t yet realised that everything that parents do is by definition; cringe.

Holidays need to be structured with wee ones. Even if that’s “eat your breakfast and you can have ten minutes in the pool”. But yeah, the beach needs kites and shovels and buckets, trips to castles need some imagination and maybe plastic swords, and so on. I always tried to do at least one “wow” thing, go-carts, indoor climbing. boat trips, all that sort of stuff. Tired them out and gave them a memory.

Do NOT knacker them out, knackered bickering siblings is a hell that nobody needs to experience.

I think it’s about that age when you start to see how your parenting style is working :0)

Do NOT knacker them out, knackered bickering siblings is a hell that nobody needs to experience.

I appreciate I’m only seeing this from the view of my nieces but this is very true. When they were tired they got unbelievably cranky, they were too tired to function properly but didn’t understand why this was and they were too tired to even go to sleep – they’d still be hyper from whatever they’d been doing but now tired and often hungry with it as well so they just became little terrors.

Mine are 23 and 21 now – I just smile knowingly when I see the meltdowns on holiday.

Do NOT knacker them out, knackered bickering siblings is a hell that nobody needs to experience.

Nah, need to time it.

We seem to have a 25-30 minute window between being knackered and ready to relax/go to bed and TOO knackered and absolute little turds. Have the same with my GFs daughter.

But generally, mine aren’t arseholes anymore, had a few melt downs over the years, but only two or three on a weeks holiday. None at all now, or for the last few years, (since they were 6-7 ish)

We took ours to Disneyland when they were 7,5 & 2. I was knackered from the drive down from Yorkshire and a crap sleep in some run down hotel nearby the night before. They were fully wound up with excitement and over stimulated and acting like ungrateful little brats whilst I wondered where all the magic and happiness was. But then I saw the greatest thing ever – another dad losing his shit with his kids. The confirmation that it wasn’t just me was a huge weight off my shoulders. Somehow that triggered me in to chilling out and letting kids be kids and from then on the rest of the stay seemed so much easier.

8 years later and we’ve recently been camping. Normally I am up at least an hour before everyone else (they all sleep in whilst camping) and that is my time to walk the dog and then sit and chill with a morning coffee and watch the world go by with the dog chilling at my feet. For some reason this time they all decided to get up at the same time on 3 out of 4 mornings just to mess with me and not allow me to relax. I swear they do it on purpose.

Sorry to be different but my sons were both pretty blummin’ good.

the fact you’re speaking in the past tense suggests some years have passed since. Which helps confirm my suspicion that the PTSD of parenting, combined with the alcohol levels required (see first reply), have wiped your memory and contributed to the societal conspiracy to hide the fact that all kids are arseholes to their parents.

having said that my two are currently merrily riding around a pump track whilst I sit and relax which is one of those lovely moments. Until I just remembered how strongly they insisted I’m not allowed to bring my bike as I’ll get in their way. Arseholes.

totally recognise OPs situation. I haven’t read the whole thread but agree with the suggestions to just back off. And that starts at breakfast. Just don’t ask them to do anything. You’re on holiday. They’ll come for food when they’re hungry. Sod brushing their teeth if that’s gonna start a war. Plan nothing for the day. You need a reset to get out of the death spiral of annoyed parents who no longer have any patience to deal with annoyed/tired kids.

There are many points made above that we recognise in our kids (the advantages of lots of structured activity, the benefits of splitting them up etc). Ours are 9 and 12, one diagnosed with autism, the other with many behavioural patterns that suggest he might be neurodivergent. We’re currently in NW Scotland and the youngest it struggling with pain in his knee (a condition diagnosed a week before we came on holiday). This has lead to us abandoning most of our plans for activities, with some predictable consequences – the other child became so anxious last night because of the uncertainty about the rest of the holiday that he was sick. Unfortunately he didn’t make it to the bathroom but did at least make it to the sealed floor in the kitchen, but that meant that whilst being sick he also had to fight off the dog, who was trying to consume it as fast as it was being produced (we saw the funny side).

We’ve found the Radio 4 series Ashley Blaker: 6.5 Children to be both quite humorous and quite helpful for realising that sometimes it ‘not just you’, and that others have a more challenging time than us. Our most used phrase from that series is the ‘perceived unfairness alert’. We had one of those yesterday when there was a mistake in the pub and one child got an adult portion rather than a child’s portion. Cue child 2 refusing to eat anything. A few years back that would have been frustrating. Now though it’s just another of those things…

Should have gone to Disney/Centre Parc and got matching T-shirts…

To be fair, mine were pretty good at that age on holiday aside from a few nights crap sleep on ferries and the like due to over-excitedness.

Oh, and my youngest saying he’d like to go home after 30mins at Disney as his legs “ached”.

That being said we’ve never done holidays where we just hang around a house, we’ve always tended to go to the beach/pool/theme park/mountains/forest.

Go do stuff, have a plan, but be flexible, take more snacks than necessary for a rugby team.

Holidays with kids that age are largely just graft. 

The best you can hope for is to tag-team it and give each other a break. If you’ve got family you get on with and/or amenable friends, going away in a larger group can dilute the pain a bit.

I’ve found it does get markedly easier and more pleasant, the older they get. My 13 year old daughter has been a great holiday partner-in-crime for fun stuff over the last few years, which is great, as my wife isn’t super-adventurous when it comes to holiday activities, especially anything involving boats.

Hold fast. It’ll probably get better.

My son has just turned 5 and can be a little git when he wants to be. I think a fair few of us, mainly pointing the finger at myself here, expect them to think like we do, well, they don’t. My other half keeps reminding me that. I remember bits and pieces from when I was 4 and 5, all happy memories. I don’t remember being a ****, but I’m sure I had my moments.

Focus on the good points, when it hits the fan, remember many others go through it, you just don’t see it most of the time. I always compare my son’s behaviour to others, which is another thing I shouldn’t do, but I still do it. My neighbour’s on had a mini melt down at our house the other day as it was time to go home, my neighbour said, “see, it does happen to us too.”

Good to know this is all normal having come back from two weeks on holiday with our 5-year-old being convinced we needed to call an ADHD specialist!

@nothshorenial – admittedly they’re all in their 30’s now so I might have blotted out the bad bits and I think being a single dad kind of helped as they had nobody to counter my no means no stance.

just back from our hols, my boys are 7 and 9 and for the most part quite good fun.  Did the pool holiday (not all inclusive though) –  I get less than half an hour on a sun lounger as I have to be in the pool inventing various games for them to play, which mostly is fun.  Well until I end up with an ear infection half way through the fortnight….

I look around at the older kids on holiday, all sat there staring at their phones and tell myself I’ve only got a few more years left until they won’t want to even talk to me, so try to make the most of it.

I’m not looking forward to mobile phone battles they sound far worse than a being a bit of a pain in the ass on holiday

I’ve found it does get markedly easier and more pleasant, the older they get.

Hmm. That was true for us until our eldest hit 12 1/2 years old, at which point she did the full Kevin the Teenager switch. It’s been a challenging year…

when you pander to beings who have no idea what they are doing then the typical result is arseholes

this goes for all ages

All children are different, and all parents are different. What works for some children might not work for others, and what works for some parents might not work for others.

As a parent, as long as you are putting the time and effort in what more can be asked?

I think we’re quite lucky with ours (5 and 7) as they play really well together pretty much the whole day.

However, we have different issues (anxiety/ocd) with our eldest especially having sensory issues with clothes and going to the toilet so we still have our own challenges. She had a full meltdown at the beach due to the suncream/sand combination so that was her day over after 5 minutes! We just stuck to the pool after that.

I wish they would spend more time on tablets/consoles though! Ours do endless “arts and crafts” so we’re constantly tidying up the mess.

Ours are 5 and 7, can confirm they’re arseholes. Fights and arguments over absolutely nothing – yesterday it was over who got to put a box in the recycling! They’re better on holiday though as we’re out of our routine as well so it’s less like ordering them around to make sure they’re in bed on time to get a good sleep before school etc, plus there’s the threat of no swimming tomorrow to keep them in line 🙂

3 weeks OP? Are you a maniac (or a millionaire?), if they’re that young a week is plenty in one go.

Going away with a 12 and 15 year old this year is tollerable, the youngest still gets ‘bored” but there’s no paddys just vague complaints and easily diffused with food, drink, going in the pool or UNO.

The biggest challenge to my patience is their mother TBH.

@cookeaa – not millionaire:) but a free holiday home so just ferry and fuel cost. But 3 weeks, in retrospect, is a lot. My parents and wife’s mum quite aged so we keen for the boys to know and see them before it’s too late.

That was true for us until our eldest hit 12 1/2 years old, at which point she did the full Kevin the Teenager switch. It’s been a challenging year…

I feel for you. My youngest will be 14 in December and appears to be emerging from this. His brother (15 in November) wasn’t as bad.

I’ve found it does get markedly easier and more pleasant, the older they get.
Hmm. That was true for us until our eldest hit 12 1/2 years old, at which point she did the full Kevin the Teenager switch. It’s been a challenging year…

Oh, Hell-yes – the word “I’ve” is doing a lot of heavy lifting here. There absolutely are new issues that come up with age (teenaged self-consciousness rearing its head for us at the minute, as are the regular battles over device access), but I no longer feel that constant, grinding obligation to be “on” for every minute they’re awake that you get when they’re properly little.

We were driving to Aviemore from the Borders for a long weekend. The (3) kids argued and whinged so much in the car on the journey that I kept threatening to turn around and drive home. We got to about 2 miles south of Aviemore until I realised that I would have to be good to my threat, we drove home.

Achieved nothing though. We all missed out on a break, kids carried on whinging and fighting and we wasted a load of money. Not sure what the moral of the story is.

That was a lonely hill to die on ,bet the next few days at home were lovely though (LoLz).

In another heading north story (Aberlour) ,we were all fighting in the back,so my dad threatened to leave me at the side of the road if we didn’t pack it in. Like your good self Frank,he felt he had to stand by his threat so dropped me off beside a gatehouse/drive of a large estate. When they drove off I upped the game by hiding in the woods behind the gatehouse (I kinda knew/prayed that they would return). I let them search a bit before making my appearance. What an absolute bollikin I got ,almost as big as the one that my dad got from mum …Happy days 🙂