“apprenticeships”

Is that just another name for a “job” these days?

Trawling around for my 15yo, some of the big companies & trades have what I call a proper apprenticeship with college and mentoring involved, but surely being a “fencing installer” (on 10k for 18 months) or serving fries in McDonalds isn’t an apprenticeship, is it?

There’s still real apprenticeships. And the new graduate level apprenticeships are pretty awesome for some things. But yep, it’s a term that’s been abused. I worked for a bank when the modern apprenticeships were brought in and it was as simple as the entry level jobs being rebranded as “apprenticeships” in order to get some funding and to cut wages.

Gets round paying a proper wage for a job.

https://www.renishaw.com/en/apprenticeships–6876

@petimpreza yea, we’re already on that one, will see what they offer in December.

Also Delphi / Borg Warner in Stonehouse

Companies get an incentive from Gov to create apprenticeships, hence the rebranding.

Depends on the employer / jobs in question. An apprenticeship should include both vocational (on the job) learning and ‘technical’ education and result in some form of qualification. Many employers wanted to keep apprenticeships as a level 3 NVQ with level 2 being Traineeships – this was over-ruled by Government. Many of the big retail businesses use it as a front for cheap wages and meaningless qualifications – some wanted 6 month apprenticeships in ‘retail’, over and above their abuse of zero hours contracts and Universal Credit. All the politicians want is ‘numbers’ rather that quality, meaningful jobs.

My firm now has about 10 apprentices, 2/3rds are working towards their degrees and we’ve had recently had the first post grad. It’s an important route towards developing the next generation of qualified professionals.

graduate level apprenticeships

WTF is a “graduate level apprenticeship?”

… an apprenticeship aimed at those of graduate level?

Gets round paying a proper wage for a job.

This ^^^^^^^^

n apprenticeship aimed at those of graduate level?

So, if I do my graduate degree in political philosophy, I get to hang out in the office of a certified Political Philosopher, type up their manuscripts, and get a certificate certifying that I am qualified to philosophize on matters political?

WTF is a “graduate level apprenticeship?”

Can only speak for my company, we took on an apprentice Mechanical Engineer 4 years ago, he does a sort of hands on, work based bit, but also did a 4 year day release honours degree at university, instead of the usual trades apprentice route ie HNC/HND at college.

Brilliant opportunity.

thols2
Free Member

WTF is a “graduate level apprenticeship?”

It’s a combined university course/relevant job, done in partnership with an employer- a lot like an old school apprenticeship, just to a higher level. Pretty fantastic option for some people, but you’ve got to be super motivated and organised like most kids aren’t

My old employer offers degree apprenticeships. After 5 years you have a relevant IT degree, 5 years experience and no student debt. An absolute no brainer, if you can get on the scheme.

I think JLR do similar for automotive.

Sons college friend has just started a degree appreciate a top IT company. 4 days a week at work, one day a week study, one week at uni 3 times a year. Proper wage too for the role.

My new employer had rebranded the internal training programme as “apprenticeships”, but has pulled the plug on our cohort as the overseeing external body was dicking around with assessments in a post Covid world

We have them too. Engineering Apprenticeships. 4 years, college on day release and opportunity to go for a degree at then end if you want.

The Graduate apprenticeship scheme is fantastic btw, and open to any company. Companies over a certain size (IIRC 1000 employees) pay an education levy, that funds the GA scheme.

I’m in my final (hons) year at uni, started at 43 years old, it’s not just for the young uns. My company would have paid for the standard PT day release degree, but I really liked the sound of the GA, and work were quite happy as there was no cost. Also, I can piss off for another employer when I’m done, no contractual must stay for x amount of years.

Which I won’t. 😂

Oh, and I did a proper apprenticeship many years ago!

Finance/accountancy and IT are both good for apprenticeships. I’m a big fan of growing your own talent if you are a big enough company – it benefits everyone involved.

There are even Master’s Level apprenticeships – I helped in developing one as part of a cross-sector initiative a few years ago. Provided the Government don’t start dicking around with the formula, degree apprenticeships will supplant traditional graduate programmes as they cost the employer less and employee retention is better – where I worked, attrition rate for graduates was 50% after 5 years whereas for apprentices is was over 90%.
One problem is that many SME businesses no longer recruit and train their own – I ran a cross sector programme where we offered free engineering apprenticeship training worth £30k to over 500 employers, as well as helping them with recruitment – only 10 took part

My employer has apprenticeships, I don’t know that they offer any formal education but they do offer on the job training for otherwise unskilled workers who wouldn’t get a look in. Plenty have done well and subsequently been offered a proper job and training. I think you have to think of the opportunities the apprenticeship can offer rather than just the salary.

but surely being a “fencing installer” (on 10k for 18 months) or serving fries in McDonalds isn’t an apprenticeship, is it?

You don’t think there are any skills required to install fencing or either cook food or deal with the public to serve it? They may not be four year, time served apprenticeships but both jobs are not the sort of thing you turn up get handed the tools and left to it.

Companies get an incentive from Gov to create apprenticeships, hence the rebranding.

That’s kinda arse-backwards because

The Graduate apprenticeship scheme is fantastic btw, and open to any company. Companies over a certain size (IIRC 1000 employees) pay an education levy, that funds the GA scheme.

is closer. It’s stick rather than carrot.

The ‘size’ threshold is based on salary rather than head count, I think off the top of my head it’s £1m. If you hit that threshold then you have to give a percentage to the Government, after which you have two options: 1) you can reclaim it to spend on apprentices, or 2) it’s lost money. So for a large employer, apprenticeships are attractive.

Modern apprenticeships can be great. You’ll get the odd employer who thinks “glorified Tea Boy” and my apprentices have told me many horror stories about their mates’ experiences. But at the end of the day they’re getting a qualification, they’re getting real-world work experience, and they’re being paid rather than coming away with a ton of debt. And the breadth of choice of subjects is head-spinning. It’s a far cry from the “you’re a bit thick so we’ll show you how to glue bricks together” perception of apprenticeships when I was a teenager.

And on that, even: a few years ago I was in a supermarket and I bumped into a lad I used to go to school with, he was in the year below me and wasn’t the most academic. When he left school he became a brickie. I asked him, “what are you doing these days?” and he replied, aged in his early 40s, “oh, I’ve just retired.” So which one of us is a bit thick now, hey? I’ll be working until the retirement age has been bumped to three figures.

I’m the other resident old graduate apprentice.

I agree with nobeer and I said on another thread the school leaver that is also doing it has been a total success and is genuinely useful to the company with a year still to go rather than taking a couple of years to get up to speed that graduates normally take.

I kinda wish they had one year full time studying though to get the full uni experience.

Cougar sed> That’s kinda arse-backwards

Totally arse-backwards, but it is happening, companies like cheap labour. The right apprenticeship for the right person is probably an ideal situation. Plenty of iffy examples about as well.

I kinda wish they had one year full time studying though to get the full uni experience.

Aye, write that year off though! Imagine doing a full hons degree over a year though, when full timers still take 4.

They’ve no idea how much easier they have it. 😂

Cougar, I don’t think it works the same up here as in England btw.

My daughter quit her A-Levels last September to start a Stable Yard Management Apprenticeship. She’s now working for an ex Olympic Medal winning rider and has learnt so much is the last 10 months and is very happy and is wanting to learn rather than it feeling like drudgery.

She’s living on site and working stupidly long hours (like getting up at 2am on Sunday to drive to an event) so her hourly rate works out at a silly low amount. But her accommodation is free and she can keep her horse there too also for free, and gets free riding lessons from an olympian.

If it’s an area your 15yr old wants to go into just go for it and forget the pay! 🙂

is closer. It’s stick rather than carrot.

The ‘size’ threshold is based on salary rather than head count, I think off the top of my head it’s £1m. If you hit that threshold then you have to give a percentage to the Government, after which you have two options: 1) you can reclaim it to spend on apprentices, or 2) it’s lost money. So for a large employer, apprenticeships are attractive.

It does seem perverse but I suggested we should take on apprentices (we are in a an area where I think even the OP would accept you can do apprenticeships), a good few years ago. It got short shrift because nobody thinks long term. Then, along comes this scheme and now I’m being actively chased to get apprentices, and another department which has never considered them before already has its second lot starting…

Aye.

The logic has to be “we’re training our future” rather than “we’re training another company’s future.”

Totally arse-backwards, but it is happening, companies like cheap labour.

It’s labour they’ve already paid for whether they like it or not.

Cougar, I don’t think it works the same up here as in England btw.

No clue about that, sorry. I’d be interested to hear from anyone who does.