Viewing 30 posts - 1 through 30 (of 30 total)
  • “apprenticeships”
  • Premier Icon qwerty
    Free Member

    Is that just another name for a “job” these days?

    Trawling around for my 15yo, some of the big companies & trades have what I call a proper apprenticeship with college and mentoring involved, but surely being a “fencing installer” (on 10k for 18 months) or serving fries in McDonalds isn’t an apprenticeship, is it?

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Full Member

    There’s still real apprenticeships. And the new graduate level apprenticeships are pretty awesome for some things. But yep, it’s a term that’s been abused. I worked for a bank when the modern apprenticeships were brought in and it was as simple as the entry level jobs being rebranded as “apprenticeships” in order to get some funding and to cut wages.

    Premier Icon K
    Full Member

    Gets round paying a proper wage for a job.

    Premier Icon qwerty
    Free Member

    @petimpreza yea, we’re already on that one, will see what they offer in December.

    Also Delphi / Borg Warner in Stonehouse

    Premier Icon wordnumb
    Free Member

    Companies get an incentive from Gov to create apprenticeships, hence the rebranding.

    Premier Icon dovebiker
    Free Member

    Depends on the employer / jobs in question. An apprenticeship should include both vocational (on the job) learning and ‘technical’ education and result in some form of qualification. Many employers wanted to keep apprenticeships as a level 3 NVQ with level 2 being Traineeships – this was over-ruled by Government. Many of the big retail businesses use it as a front for cheap wages and meaningless qualifications – some wanted 6 month apprenticeships in ‘retail’, over and above their abuse of zero hours contracts and Universal Credit. All the politicians want is ‘numbers’ rather that quality, meaningful jobs.

    Premier Icon aP
    Free Member

    My firm now has about 10 apprentices, 2/3rds are working towards their degrees and we’ve had recently had the first post grad. It’s an important route towards developing the next generation of qualified professionals.

    Premier Icon thols2
    Free Member

    graduate level apprenticeships

    WTF is a “graduate level apprenticeship?”

    Premier Icon Aidy
    Free Member

    … an apprenticeship aimed at those of graduate level?

    Premier Icon pothead
    Free Member

    Gets round paying a proper wage for a job.

    This ^^^^^^^^

    Premier Icon thols2
    Free Member

    n apprenticeship aimed at those of graduate level?

    So, if I do my graduate degree in political philosophy, I get to hang out in the office of a certified Political Philosopher, type up their manuscripts, and get a certificate certifying that I am qualified to philosophize on matters political?

    Premier Icon Nobeerinthefridge
    Free Member

    WTF is a “graduate level apprenticeship?”

    Can only speak for my company, we took on an apprentice Mechanical Engineer 4 years ago, he does a sort of hands on, work based bit, but also did a 4 year day release honours degree at university, instead of the usual trades apprentice route ie HNC/HND at college.

    Brilliant opportunity.

    Premier Icon Northwind
    Full Member

    thols2
    Free Member

    WTF is a “graduate level apprenticeship?”

    It’s a combined university course/relevant job, done in partnership with an employer- a lot like an old school apprenticeship, just to a higher level. Pretty fantastic option for some people, but you’ve got to be super motivated and organised like most kids aren’t

    Premier Icon onewheelgood
    Full Member

    My old employer offers degree apprenticeships. After 5 years you have a relevant IT degree, 5 years experience and no student debt. An absolute no brainer, if you can get on the scheme.

    I think JLR do similar for automotive.

    Premier Icon MoreCashThanDash
    Full Member

    Sons college friend has just started a degree appreciate a top IT company. 4 days a week at work, one day a week study, one week at uni 3 times a year. Proper wage too for the role.

    My new employer had rebranded the internal training programme as “apprenticeships”, but has pulled the plug on our cohort as the overseeing external body was dicking around with assessments in a post Covid world

    Premier Icon Harry_the_Spider
    Full Member

    We have them too. Engineering Apprenticeships. 4 years, college on day release and opportunity to go for a degree at then end if you want.

    Premier Icon Nobeerinthefridge
    Free Member

    The Graduate apprenticeship scheme is fantastic btw, and open to any company. Companies over a certain size (IIRC 1000 employees) pay an education levy, that funds the GA scheme.

    I’m in my final (hons) year at uni, started at 43 years old, it’s not just for the young uns. My company would have paid for the standard PT day release degree, but I really liked the sound of the GA, and work were quite happy as there was no cost. Also, I can piss off for another employer when I’m done, no contractual must stay for x amount of years.

    Which I won’t. 😂

    Premier Icon Nobeerinthefridge
    Free Member

    Oh, and I did a proper apprenticeship many years ago!

    Premier Icon olddog
    Full Member

    Finance/accountancy and IT are both good for apprenticeships. I’m a big fan of growing your own talent if you are a big enough company – it benefits everyone involved.

    Premier Icon dovebiker
    Free Member

    There are even Master’s Level apprenticeships – I helped in developing one as part of a cross-sector initiative a few years ago. Provided the Government don’t start dicking around with the formula, degree apprenticeships will supplant traditional graduate programmes as they cost the employer less and employee retention is better – where I worked, attrition rate for graduates was 50% after 5 years whereas for apprentices is was over 90%.
    One problem is that many SME businesses no longer recruit and train their own – I ran a cross sector programme where we offered free engineering apprenticeship training worth £30k to over 500 employers, as well as helping them with recruitment – only 10 took part

    Premier Icon dc1988
    Free Member

    My employer has apprenticeships, I don’t know that they offer any formal education but they do offer on the job training for otherwise unskilled workers who wouldn’t get a look in. Plenty have done well and subsequently been offered a proper job and training. I think you have to think of the opportunities the apprenticeship can offer rather than just the salary.

    Premier Icon poly
    Free Member

    but surely being a “fencing installer” (on 10k for 18 months) or serving fries in McDonalds isn’t an apprenticeship, is it?

    You don’t think there are any skills required to install fencing or either cook food or deal with the public to serve it? They may not be four year, time served apprenticeships but both jobs are not the sort of thing you turn up get handed the tools and left to it.

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Full Member

    Companies get an incentive from Gov to create apprenticeships, hence the rebranding.

    That’s kinda arse-backwards because

    The Graduate apprenticeship scheme is fantastic btw, and open to any company. Companies over a certain size (IIRC 1000 employees) pay an education levy, that funds the GA scheme.

    is closer. It’s stick rather than carrot.

    The ‘size’ threshold is based on salary rather than head count, I think off the top of my head it’s £1m. If you hit that threshold then you have to give a percentage to the Government, after which you have two options: 1) you can reclaim it to spend on apprentices, or 2) it’s lost money. So for a large employer, apprenticeships are attractive.

    Modern apprenticeships can be great. You’ll get the odd employer who thinks “glorified Tea Boy” and my apprentices have told me many horror stories about their mates’ experiences. But at the end of the day they’re getting a qualification, they’re getting real-world work experience, and they’re being paid rather than coming away with a ton of debt. And the breadth of choice of subjects is head-spinning. It’s a far cry from the “you’re a bit thick so we’ll show you how to glue bricks together” perception of apprenticeships when I was a teenager.

    And on that, even: a few years ago I was in a supermarket and I bumped into a lad I used to go to school with, he was in the year below me and wasn’t the most academic. When he left school he became a brickie. I asked him, “what are you doing these days?” and he replied, aged in his early 40s, “oh, I’ve just retired.” So which one of us is a bit thick now, hey? I’ll be working until the retirement age has been bumped to three figures.

    Premier Icon joshvegas
    Free Member

    I’m the other resident old graduate apprentice.

    I agree with nobeer and I said on another thread the school leaver that is also doing it has been a total success and is genuinely useful to the company with a year still to go rather than taking a couple of years to get up to speed that graduates normally take.

    I kinda wish they had one year full time studying though to get the full uni experience.

    Premier Icon wordnumb
    Free Member

    Cougar sed> That’s kinda arse-backwards

    Totally arse-backwards, but it is happening, companies like cheap labour. The right apprenticeship for the right person is probably an ideal situation. Plenty of iffy examples about as well.

    Premier Icon Nobeerinthefridge
    Free Member

    I kinda wish they had one year full time studying though to get the full uni experience.

    Aye, write that year off though! Imagine doing a full hons degree over a year though, when full timers still take 4.

    They’ve no idea how much easier they have it. 😂

    Cougar, I don’t think it works the same up here as in England btw.

    Premier Icon the-muffin-man
    Full Member

    My daughter quit her A-Levels last September to start a Stable Yard Management Apprenticeship. She’s now working for an ex Olympic Medal winning rider and has learnt so much is the last 10 months and is very happy and is wanting to learn rather than it feeling like drudgery.

    She’s living on site and working stupidly long hours (like getting up at 2am on Sunday to drive to an event) so her hourly rate works out at a silly low amount. But her accommodation is free and she can keep her horse there too also for free, and gets free riding lessons from an olympian.

    If it’s an area your 15yr old wants to go into just go for it and forget the pay! 🙂

    Premier Icon poly
    Free Member

    is closer. It’s stick rather than carrot.

    The ‘size’ threshold is based on salary rather than head count, I think off the top of my head it’s £1m. If you hit that threshold then you have to give a percentage to the Government, after which you have two options: 1) you can reclaim it to spend on apprentices, or 2) it’s lost money. So for a large employer, apprenticeships are attractive.

    It does seem perverse but I suggested we should take on apprentices (we are in a an area where I think even the OP would accept you can do apprenticeships), a good few years ago. It got short shrift because nobody thinks long term. Then, along comes this scheme and now I’m being actively chased to get apprentices, and another department which has never considered them before already has its second lot starting…

    Premier Icon Cougar
    Full Member

    Aye.

    The logic has to be “we’re training our future” rather than “we’re training another company’s future.”

    Totally arse-backwards, but it is happening, companies like cheap labour.

    It’s labour they’ve already paid for whether they like it or not.

    Cougar, I don’t think it works the same up here as in England btw.

    No clue about that, sorry. I’d be interested to hear from anyone who does.

Viewing 30 posts - 1 through 30 (of 30 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.