As the Tory thread, genuinely interested. I’m English and live in Scotland so have an idea what they’re about – but what are your reasons they’ve actually won your vote?

Because the more folk that vote for them the more SNP threads will appear on STW and we can never have enough of those.

Because labour are a shambles and there’s no point voting Green in the UK elections. Plus i’m pro-indy(although I could settle for a proper federal system.) Plus I fully support the SNPs bid to go much further than the Smith commission.

Its an extra notch for you, Colin!

I’m pro independence and my wife is a member, and forces me not to vote Green.

Plus how could you vote for Labour or the Tories? Really?

To give the English something else to whinge about.

Utterly fed up of Westminster politics which seems to aim for self interested middle Englanders only.

I tried but there wasn’t one locally

Bugger I agree with Al

Utterly fed up of Westminster politics which seems to aim for self interested middle Englanders only.

Pretty much sums it up.

“A vote for independence is not a vote for the SNP”

😆

cynic-al – Member
Utterly fed up of Westminster politics which seems to aim for self interested middle Englanders only.

I’m fed up with westminster politics but living in the England don’t have an option! Never quite sure what a middle Englanders is. Most people are broadly middle class so it seems like a good way to insult most English people in a slightly passive aggressive manor. Or is it one particular small section of society?

I’m fed up with westminster politics but living in the England don’t have an option

You do. Start a political party.

Another +1 for Cynic-Al

What Al said too.

In the run up to the referendum, the thought of going into the next Westminster election and seeing the Tories back in, probably leading to an EU referendum, and more whining on from UKIP about the ‘bloody foreigners’ and backed by a self-satifying Westminster system made my mind up. (Well there was more than that, but I can’t be bothered going through it all)

You do. Start a political party

I’m not a ****

Most people are broadly middle class

And that nonsense view illustrates perfectly what a middle englander is. Most people are not broadly middle class.

Start a political party.

Oh don’t be silly.

Where are you going to get anything like enough funding and support? It takes decades.

And cynic_al +2 here.

(And I did not even vote SNP)

Yes.
See Cynic-al.
Possible to risk Tories getting in knowing that Labour were offering more or less the same deal but with a complete gravitas bypass.

Anti-Tory vote plus a need for Scotland to have one voice.

The SNP chap in our area only beat the Tories by 300 votes plus the next constituency to us is the only Tory.

I’m English, if that matters.

Yep. I know a lot of disabled people. Had a lot of opportunities due to my parents free further education. I got one too. Sandi toksvig womans party also going to do well. You could join that? They take men too.

Will support the Greens when the SNP’s job is done, unless it gets too late, in which case politics may be redundant.

b r – Member
I’m English, if that matters.

nope, it doesn’t.

b r The Borders have traditionally largely voted Liberal to keep the Tory out. There is a real danger a Tory will get in next election as the SNP Lib vote will be more evenly split.

I was worried that I was going to live in the only Tory seat in Scotland!

And that nonsense view illustrates perfectly what a middle englander is. Most people are not broadly middle class.

I’ll explain why I think this is the case, you might be able to convince me otherwise, but you can start off without trying to drop snyde remarks. I’m curious to what people are defining as a middle englander, so I posted a question, please respond with a decent point.

I’m not really sure class works as a very good divider of society now tbh. Perhaps my phrasing is wrong to say most people but I would consider middle class to be the largest class.

Obviously very few people are upper class as these are the aristocracy, born into some level of society, different from being just rich. Probably sucked up to some king or Queen at some point.

Working class used to be broadly defined as people who did manual labour. This is a pretty rubbish definition IMO as you catch farmers, craftsmen, trades e.t.c in this definition. If you include all of these people to be working class then you have to include most other people as working class and you are only left with business owners, lawyers and doctors as middle class.

I think the closest thing we have to working class now is unskilled labour. Working in unskilled factory positions, shelf stacking e.t.c.

You may disagree and think only business owners, lawyers and doctors as middle class, which is a valid argument but really the people you have moved are still a massive and probably largest group of society and still represent the middle bit, even if you don’t regard them as middle class, they are the middle bit.

By middle English I don’t mean average or middle class, but small minded folk looking after their own interests and not wanting much change.

I thought the accepted term for that was little englander, I’ve never heard the term middle english before.

Start a political party.
Oh don’t be silly.

Where are you going to get anything like enough funding and support? It takes decades.

See, that’s the interesting thing about the SNP.

Even a decade ago, the idea that the SNP would look like it does today was faintly ridiculous. What they have done is grow from the ground up. It can be done. They haven’t become popular because Alex Salmond is a popular messiah, or because the logo’s amazing.

Its because the party, and importantly its leadership, is made up of people who are largely representative of the population of Scotland – men, women, younger, older, born here, not born here, wealthy, not wealthy, from comfortable backgrounds, from disadvantaged backgrounds – people who aren’t entirely dissimilar from the people who go to the ballot box. The mainstream political parties at Westminster haven’t been able to say that for a long time, and that’s one of the root causes of the UK’s current political malaise, and the often vicious tone of political commentary.

The people that make up a party is one thing, the policies another. The SNP are far from perfect in my eyes, but they have led an effective and largely popular coalition Scottish government and since then done likewise with a majority at Holyrood, while pursuing a fair amount of progressive and equitable policies and overseeing genuine improvements in a number of areas.

The vested interests that control the direction of the largest parties are never going to give up what they have to genuinely make your life better, It is going to take something that grows from the ground up.

In answer to the OP, I voted SNP for the first time at a GE. My sitting MP was an increasingly prominent Lib Dem, whose voting record I had previously found largely representative of my views and whose level of local engagement was what a good MP’s should be. That all changed in 2010. I clearly wasn’t the only East Dunbartonite to feel that way.

Al is spot on. There was never much point voting here in Glasgow, Labour always got in – then they went off and did what the central Labour party wanted. The invasion of Iraq was one nail in the coffin – I tried the usual thing of writing to my MP (several times) and got the same carbon-copy response as everyone else. I usually voted Green, on the theory that it’s better to vote for something you believe in rather than just spoiling your vote. Even voted Lib Dem once to my shame, back when they were cool and rebellious.

The SNP never really appealed. They were a bit weird, obsessed with this one thing. And I really felt British. Several things made me change my mind about that – began to feel more and more Scottish rather than British. And the SNP changed, they were still about independence, but indpendence became a means to an end, not an end itself. The Scottish Governent also showed that the SNP were pretty competent in power too.

I still don’t agree with all SNP policies, and I’m a Green party member not SNP. This election, though, voting for them made a lot of sense.

Still scratching my head over “middle English living in passive aggressive manors”???? 😈

Us n all Jimmy. Nice rioja btw.

For me, they are the only party of inclusion and willingness to let everyone have an opportunity because it is everyone’s right to have an opportunity and not to the detriment of others.

Plus, a confidence I have in them that they want what is right for people, and that’s a robust welfare and health care system and probably the thing that really swung me was when NS said on immigration that we should treat immigrants like we want our emigrants to be treated.

The thing is, apart from Green, there is no one else who remotely comes close. She is the ultimate headmistress when Milliband was the RE teacher and Cameron epitomises everything I hate about living in the UK. Lib dems were not an option. UKIP need shot in the head.

Oh and you aren’t English as being Scottish is a state of mind. Independence, which the GE wasn’t about, is not about English and Scottish, it’s about living and working and getting on in fair terms regardless of where you come from.

You can feel English all you like and that’s cool, but you are just another human being who is working, raising a family soon and being a good guy. Look beyond what you think you are and think about where you want to live.

What they have done is grow from the ground up. It can be done.

It CAN be done but it’s extremely difficult. The SNP had a few things going for it – it’s always been there as the nationalist option. The Molgrips Party hasn’t. Nor do we have a regional assmebly to gain a footing in first before hitting the national stage.

That’s not to say they haven’t worked hard and had great leaders, because they have – but it’s a case of right place right time as well. They were formed in 1934, so they’ve had a lot of time to learn about politics. If I started now and worked really hard, perhaps I could clean up in the 2095 election?

So – what party is closest to your ideal? You could “infiltrate” that and lead it to a few policy changes. Might be quicker than starting from scratch.

Yeah that’s not a bad idea.

Sometimes I pretend I did to get a nasty, reductive and belligerent response from retirement age Tory voters like my dad.

Then say “Only joking, voted labour”.

Nor do we have a regional assmebly

Surely the lefts answer in England has to be these? Decentralise power away from Westminster as much as possible to Regional PR based systems.

As I say I can see the benefits of a decentralised federal system and staying under a uk banner and be happy with that.

Will never happen mind you, so onwards with chipping away at the border with England bit by bit it is! 😆

Yep. Progressive, socially inclusive policies that are built from good ethical premises: don’t go to war, don’t vilify and punish the vulnerable, no one should be left behind.
I’m English and I love the willingness for inclusiveness that I feel is here. It’s a world apart from some of the prevalent attitudes that I experience when I go back to where I’m originally from (Norfolk).

I would consider middle class to be the largest class.

Just because you dont get your hands dirty [ do manual labour] does not mean people are no longer working class.

The jobs the working class did and do changed their position[ and power] in the pecking order did not.

Its a pyramid [scheme] so the majority cannot be in the middle they need to be at the bottom supporting the top and making them wealthy.

cynic-al – Member
Utterly fed up of Westminster politics which seems to aim for self interested middle Englanders

Are SNP supporters/funders not just the same?
Edinburgh wil become London, the “Central Belt” the South East 😉
Southern Scotland and Northern England should form their own “district” 💡
The Highlands?so long as they have the Whisky then they’ll be OK

I was worried that I was going to live in the only Tory seat in Scotland!

Work with a guy who voted for him due to the fact he helped resolve an issue for his family. He is a local guy(unlike my new SNP guy)and has done a good job in attracting industry to the area, getting the train station and time table to Edin upgraded. Others may have a different view obviously.