Wee Willie Rennie > @acarmichaelmp https://youtu.be/Z9t_KDGqOmE

epicyclo – Member
It would however require a mass participation of citizens.

I’m pretty sure Scotland just had an political event that saw mass participation of citizens???

bencooper – Member
Anyway, I read that link

Not very well obviously:

“Analysis we published last year shows this is not a new pattern. Between 2002–03 and 2009–10 – years of plenty for public services rather than cuts – real-terms health spending per person grew by 29% in Scotland compared with a 43% increase across the UK as a whole. This was despite overall public service spending per person growing by a very similar amount in Scotland (26%) and the UK as a whole (28%).
So it seems that historically, at least, Scottish Governments in Holyrood have placed less priority on funding the NHS in Scotland (and more on funding other services) than governments in Westminster have for England.”

“I have two ears am deaf to any criticism of my ideology” is a fact.
“An independent Scotland would has struggled to maintain NHS funding” is also a fact .

FTFY

FTFY

Well, not really. I said I wanted “no commercial involvement in the NHS”.

You then said: “Unfortunately the SNP don’t share your concerns about the health service – read all about it here.”

I read the link you provided. Nowhere does it say that the SNP want any commercial involvement in the NHS. It says various other things, but nothing about what I as talking about.

Now, you were saying that some people are blinded by ideology?

BigButSlimmerBloke – Member

Also, I think you’ll find that fewer people in Scotland would have voted for the SNP if if it hadn’t been for Blue Labour.
What about Blue SNPers? I have one for an MP now. If I wait she might join the Lib Dems….or UKIP….or go back to the Conservatives?

bencooper – Member
It says various other things, but nothing about what I as talking about.

It says the Scottish NHS is worse off under an SNP Scottish Government. A minor point if you don’t really care about the health service.

Also are you really TJ?

Ah, good distraction tactic – ignore that your link wasn’t about commercial involvement in the NHS by suggesting I don’t care about the health service.

Also, no, it doesn’t say that the NHS is worse under a SNP government – it says that spending per head will have a slight fall in Scotland compared to England. But funding at the moment is currently higher per head, so a good unionist would just say that it’s reblancing, surely?

“Analysis we published last year shows this is not a new pattern. Between 2002–03 and 2009–10 – years of plenty for public services rather than cuts – real-terms health spending per person grew by 29% in Scotland compared with a 43% increase across the UK as a whole. This was despite overall public service spending per person growing by a very similar amount in Scotland (26%) and the UK as a whole (28%).
So it seems that historically, at least, Scottish Governments in Holyrood have placed less priority on funding the NHS in Scotland (and more on funding other services) than governments in Westminster have for England.”

This interested me – it is, when given as percentages like this, quite a difference. Even more so when you learn that the difference adds up to £900M over the period. So I had a deeper look, just to make sure the Scottish Government wasn’t blowing it all on drugs and hookers.

Turns out the Scottish Government didn’t spend it all on drugs and hookers. Half of it – £450M – was spent on providing free personal and nursing care for people over 65. That doesn’t count as NHS funding, but most people would agree that it’s pretty much the same thing – in fact it’s actually a good example of joined-up thinking, meaning older people can spend more time at home, not taking up expensive hospital beds.

Some interesting reading about the differences between the health systems of the UK:

http://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/sites/files/nuffield/140411_four_countries_health_systems_full_report.pdf

http://www.kingsfund.org.uk/sites/files/kf/field/field_publication_summary/four-uk-health-systems-jun13.pdf

SNP playing silly b*ggers again with Commons seating after the Queens speech, sounds like they are trying to sit behind Labour front bench and even claiming on BBC coverage that they where the legitimate opposition. Parliaments sits from 2:15 so will be interesting to see how this plays out, does make them look rather petty.

Interesting that the speech also contained references to material powers to be devolved to Wales and Northern Ireland alongside the implementation of the Smith Commission. Of course one side effect to all of this will be stronger equivalent powers to England and also the amount of Parliamentary time which will be absorbed.

That doesn’t count as NHS funding, but most people would agree that it’s pretty much the same thing – in fact it’s actually a good example of joined-up thinking, meaning older people can spend more time at home, not taking up expensive hospital beds.

@ben agreed on this thinking and approach to spending. It’s shocking how much money is spent in the last part of people’s lives, I think in general most elderly people would rather not be treated/kept in hospital. That money is probably better spent differently in both care of the elderly and elsewhere. My neighbour who got the CBE did so for this type of work

My Home Life

I was enjoying watching the State Opening of Parliament, listening to the Queen’s speech and the topic came up on the BBC panel. All done whilst eating my lunch, now downloading some natural rides a “friend” on endomondo and STWer did in Wales. A useful lunch break I’d say 8)

I was enjoying watching the State Opening of Parliament

😆

Those SNP radicals are now showing how they are shaking things up at Westminster by clapping. Gosh. Petty Gestures 1 : Common Sense 0

FYI clapping is regarded as too time consuming and open to abuse hence “hear hear” is the accepted responce.

About the seats thing:

Absolute total nonsense. The Labour party are very happy for the SNP to sit in the spaces vacated by the Lib Dems. It is inappropriate for them to sit on the opposition benches opposite the PM as the Labour party are the official opposition (based upon numbers of MPs). Thereafter we have the seat traditionally occupied by Dennis Skinner.

The SNP are free to sit behind Skinner or indeed on some of the seats next to him.

When the chamber is full the extra MPs stand

I notice the juvenile clapping behaviour got some airtime on the main news last night.

So clapping is juvenile but shouting over each other is not. Aye right.

I didn’t say that did I? The shouting is nonsense too and the speaker works to try and keep that under control.

Luddism also an SNP trait?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-33833958

Considering that Scotland has some cutting edge scientific research institutes, this seems rather ridiculous

Or a way of protecting a food and drink industry that’s all about clean mountain water, wild ingredients etc. Even if that’s not really true.

Some more quotes from both sides:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/13583644.Scotland_bans_GM_crops_to_protect_the_nation_s__clean__green__brand/

Personally, I think it’s a good thing. And not because I’m anti-science or think that GM crops themselves are harmful, but because I think that they’re often used not for real advantage but because they tie farmers into pesticides from particular manufacturers. Just look who’s objecting – BASF, Bayer, Dow, Monsanto, DuPont and Syngenta.

Yeah its a sad fact that because of a poor understanding of the science many governments (and I think Scotland )won’t invest in GM crops, leaving it all in the hands of multinational corporations
Which reinforces public option that GM = bad therefore may harm sales of etc
Its as feedback loop of ignorance

I agree with bencooper. I just wish they would apply the same protection to wild places with regard to wind farms and similar developments…

I wish the real science could be debated rather than the look at the supporters argument etc. As for windfarms we have a choice, more coal, more gas, more pollution or more renewable,

Personally, I think it’s a good thing. And not because I’m anti-science or think that GM crops themselves are harmful, but because I think that they’re often used not for real advantage but because they tie farmers into pesticides from particular manufacturers. Just look who’s objecting – BASF, Bayer, Dow, Monsanto, DuPont and Syngenta.

This! Well said Ben.

^^^ sounds like scotlands days of leading the world in genetic engineering are well and truly over

seems like its all about, haggis, smoked salmon, whiskey and kilts these days

does no one remember…

It’s perfectly possible to lead the world in genetic engineering while not allowing GM crops. Dolly wasn’t produced in Scotland because we had a lax attitude to releasing GM sheep into the wild or anything.

Luddism also an SNP trait?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-33833958

Considering that Scotland has some cutting edge scientific research institutes, this seems rather ridiculous

I think it’s rather ridiculous to suggest that this is some sort of issue specific to the SNP and therefore appropriate for a “anyone on here voted SNP” thread.

The only political party mentioned in the link is the Scottish Greens and the article claims “The move has also been broadly welcomed by environment groups”.

And is there any evidence that this policy is in defiance of the wishes of Scots? The rural affairs secretary according to the article said, “There is no evidence of significant demand for GM products by Scottish consumers”, is this not true?

Who else runs the show in scotland??

The SNP rural affairs secretary Richard Lochhead announced that he would be requesting an opt-out for Scotland from EU-wide consent for GM crops

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/scotland-to-ban-all-gm-crops-over-fears-for-green-brand-angers-farmers-and-scientists-10447146.html

if Scotland really wants to hamper its own scientific research just as genome editing has become a viable reality in the lab, it can go ahead.

at least theyll still be king of the deep fried mars bar eh, no one will out do em in that!

Well done the SNP on this GM crop ban. The next step and harder to do is to either ensure all foodstuffs contains GM modified crops are labelled as such or ideally banned (impossible sadly I imagine). In any case I applaud the ban.

if Scotland really wants to hamper its own scientific research just as genome editing has become a viable reality in the lab, it can go ahead.

at least theyll still be king of the deep fried mars bar eh, no one will out do em in that!

Well make your mind up………..is this a petty attack on Scots or a petty attack on the SNP?

http://www.sruc.ac.uk/info/120062/crop_and_soils_systems

still going to try and claim it was just them pesky greens ernie?

is this a petty attack on Scots or a petty attack on the SNP?

nope just a petty attack on the scientifically illiterate,

I can imagine that the scientists at Roslin will be pretty sadened by all of this, they are after all pioneering the use of CRISPR and other GM technologies

I suppose the James Hutton Institute in Dundee will have to close down, too
wonder how many uni departments will be forced to stop research as well

All of our food has been modified since humans have existed. To ban GM crops in Scotland is, indeed, luddism. https://carboncounter.wordpress.com/2015/08/09/scotland-is-banning-gm-crops-what-is-it-thinking/

still going to try and claim it was just them pesky greens ernie?

Eh ?

The point I was making was that opposition to GM crops is not a uniquely SNP issue, your linked article doesn’t even mention the SNP, it does though mention the Scottish Greens, environment groups, and Scottish consumers, so as well as the SNP there doesn’t appear to be wholehearted support for GM crops in Scotland.

Which therefore begs the question is the issue really appropriate for a “anyone on here voted SNP” thread ?

I think the answer is probably no but as this comment “at least theyll still be king of the deep fried mars bar eh, no one will out do em in that!” shows, you presumably felt it gave the opportunity for a cheap shot.

All of our food has been modified since humans have existed. To ban GM crops in Scotland is, indeed, luddism.

Erm ….. if all the crops/food in Scotland has “been modified since humans have existed” as you claim, then it proves the complete reverse – Scots are clearly not Luddites.

come on ernie are you still trying to make out that this proposal to be put b4 the EU by the SNPs rural affairs minister is infact nothing to do with the SNP

keep trying

Erm ….. if all the crops/food in Scotland have “been modified since humans have existed” as you claim, then it proves the complete reverse – Scots are clearly not Luddites.

🙄

http://www.snp.org/media-centre/news/2004/may/swinney-publishes-euro-environment-manifesto-make-scotland-gm-free-snp

It was, after all, in the SNP manifesto for the 2015 GE. You know – the one where they wiped the floor with the other parties? I get that some folk might be surprised at the very notion of politicians standing by the manifesto upon which they were elected…..

Presumably the organic farmer buys insecticides from the same suppliers as the gm guys? And the same herbicides to kill the crop at the right time for harvest? I see no problems with either. The consumers will decide,however terrible they are at science and farming.

is infact nothing to do with the SNP

Because of course I haven’t said that it has “nothing to do with the SNP”.

I just don’t think it has anything to do with this thread.

I very much doubt that many people voted SNP purely because of its policy on GM food, they could have voted Green if that was what was really important to them.

BTW well done for your clever use of the rolling eyes emoticon, along with your cheap shot about deep fried mars bars you are really showing how capable you are of having an intelligent and sensible discussion.