Anyone know about shop leases?

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  • Anyone know about shop leases?
  • Premier Icon Rubber_Buccaneer
    Subscriber

    I want to take over a shop but the three way deal between old tenant, landlord and me is confusing my little brain. Ordinarily I’d expect the lease to be reassigned to me subject to the landlord not rejecting me. In this case the lease has expired and they are into some sort of rolling quarterly arrangement. What I’d like to know is, in this situation, who negotiates what with who? I want a new lease so do I agree this with the landlord and deal with the old tenant re fixtures, goodwill, etc or is it for the old tenant to deal with the landlord?

    I’m sure it’s simple once you know but I can’t find solid info so far and being tight don’t want to pay a solicitor until I know I want the conveyancing done for sure.

    Stoner
    Member

    If the existing tenant is holding over, then he has no legal interest to assign or sublet, meaning you negotiate directly with the landlord. The outgoing tenant may have some obligations regarding making good/reinstating the property prior to vacating, but if there are tenant’s (his) fittings he doesnt want the hassle to remove and you can use them, then you could arrange a tripartite deal but will need to agree with the landlord in what condition the property is expected to be left at the end of YOUR lease (i.e. are you going to be required to return it to a condition similar to when he started his lease or you started yours?)

    The alternative is to play a clean game, get the landlord to take possession of the property, require reinstatement to a condition based on the original lease requirement, you sign a straightforward new lease and get a clean property to start from. Rather depends on the hassle/recyling/reusing value of any existing fittings etc.

    Premier Icon Rubber_Buccaneer
    Subscriber

    Thanks, that makes my position more clear. It’s a shop full of equipment, much of it needing replacing but the clean start is not an option. The place is run down and the best option all round appears to be to take it on as it is. I’m painfully aware that I could (more like will) be taking on a lot of liability.

    footflaps
    Member

    Very similar of renting office space, but the whole return to original state does seem very wasteful as you end up filling skips full of perfectly good mains sockets, CAT-5 sockets, kitchens, office partitions, meeting rooms etc (which cost 10s of £k to install) and then the new occupier spends 10s of £k putting pretty much all the same stuff back in. Still keeps Office Fitters in business…..

    gribble
    Member

    Rubber,

    I work in property and my first piece of advice is to pay a professional surveyor to advise you. If you want to find a surveyor to act on your behalf, google RICS. Ditto with a solicitor.

    Probably not what you wanted to hear, but if you ever ask a lawyer for ‘casual advice’, the first thing they will tell you to do is to instruct a lawyer, for the same reasons. It also means they are liable if the advice is bad and they can be shown to be negligent.

    Send me a message direct if you want to discuss further.

    Please get advice (both a surveyor and solicitor). They will protect your interests and that could end up saving you large sums of money.

    Premier Icon Rubber_Buccaneer
    Subscriber

    Noted and be assured I will make use of solicitor and surveyor before my name goes on any dotted line.

    crankboy
    Member

    solicitors are there to give effect to your instructions and protect you from pitfalls . speak to the landlord agree northing but find out what the proposed mechanism would be and what he expects from you and the outgoing tenant . Off the top of my head not even wiki the tenants lease has expired so unless he has applied for a new one he has nothing to assign to you hence you need to deal direct with the Landlord.

    A Note of caution, one of my mates had a stall in a shopping arcade she had a clause with the landlord saying he would not let to any other similar business . She then took one of his shop units in the same arcade . He promptly let stalls to three identical businesses she had no similar clause in the new lease and found herself in direct competition with stalls directly in front of her unit. She went bankrupt. She had moved in on a casual check of the lease from a mate (NOT ME) had she paid for a lawyer she may have had some comeback.

    wrecker
    Member

    Thanks, that makes my position more clear. It’s a shop full of equipment, much of it needing replacing but the clean start is not an option. The place is run down and the best option all round appears to be to take it on as it is. I’m painfully aware that I could (more like will) be taking on a lot of liability.

    In that case, make sure your lease agreement is to return the property to the same state as that you are taking it on.
    I’d be happy to advise you RE your statutory stuff for M&E. I have plenty of docs etc which may help.

    Premier Icon garage-dweller
    Subscriber

    Surveyor and lawyer needed. I am neither but I have been involved in clearing up enough businesses that didn’t take advice to know that failing to get advice on such potentially huge exposures is a big mistake.

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