[video]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MqU4tcanIa4[/video]

here’s a video from the hill that shows some of the trails that folk from the trail scotland forum have built. There was a thread there that showed how they built them. I think there was quite a lot of digging etc involved.
Still looks quite fun to ride.
(runs and hides)

Cheeky monkey – do you really think creating new trails from scratch by clearing ground cover, digging up the ground and concreting in blocks is acceptable in a nature reserve where there is already conflict between mountainbikers and other users?

Have you seen the pictures of what he has done?

You admit you do not know the area. I do. I have ridden there for 20 years

First point, quite possibly not BUT I only really have your word for that and I have little faith in your objectivity or ability to present a situation which accurately captures the subtle nuances of reality. All trail building is disruptive and leaves unpleasant scars in the immediate aftermath. Nature recovers and soon encroaches again in the majority of situations. I can picture you screaming “CONCRETE” but honestly, who cares? Most hardcore surfacing is intended to “go off” to some degree using its inherenet cement-like properties. A bit of judicious and sympathetic use of proper concrete, whilst the knee-jerk is “no way” is likely to be fine.

BUT ……

Pictures blocked at work.

Your last comment – and again, you miss the gist, my point is about how you engage (or in less PC speak) talk to people. It’s not about the technical merits for or against the idea BT puts forward. I was straight up about not knowing the site so as not to misrepresent what I was saying. I’m talking around the general issue without knowing the specifics.

Where I am dealing in specifics it’s about how you talk to people. You’re crap at it, IMO and far too soon go off into the equivaqlent of internet shouting IT’S ILLEGAL and I KNOW BEST. It’s irritating and unconstructive.

I only hope in reality that you’re not the same as you are on the internet. Some people have said you’re not. But as you seem unprepared to meet up in person with the bloke you’re merrily lambasting then I guess he’ll never get to know, eh?

Gw this was an ongoing argument till about 2/3 yrs ago. Bikes then were not on according to various signs around the hill. What seems to be going on now is that the same people that didnt want bikes then are making it difficult for those that do. Misleading information,branches on trails,broken glass left in strategic places etc in order to try and dissuade mtbs. Just look back at the older foch newsletters and you will see these attitudes and measures have been tried for years and I think these people just cant accept they are going to have to put up with bikes.

And you really think building unsanctioned trails is going to help the situation? 🙄

Please reconsider what you are doing.

I take your point cheeky monkey but the same could be said the other way. Bigthunder kept stating his tails were responsibly built – in an nature reserve without permission. That can never be responsible.

I just hope that Bigthunder now has a bit more understanding of the issues around this and rethinks his activities.

I get exasperated because what he and others who think like him do does so much damage that responsible mountainbikers cannot put right and we all get tarred with the same brush.

When there is plenty of legal and tolerated trails to ride why create illegal ones?

For these trails no digging was done. Couple of rocks dug up and removed,couple of planks screwed into a tree stump,plenty raking and some dead bushes and branches cut back. These trails are all there and all we did was “trailor” them a bit to keep them open for all to use.

Signs mean **** all

and **** who sobotage/booby trap woods need strung up

GW – my understanign is that it was a council bylaw

it wasn’t

OK. I seem to remeber the signs saying council bylaw such and such

Me and my mates used to cycle round the lammermuirs stealing the “No Mountainbikes” signs. 😀
I might still have a couple in my parents shed.

Yeah branches on paths I now photograph and take a note of the time and place they are left. This is just reckless endangerment. If I found someone doing that then there would be a bit digging going on – but not for trails. For their vile worthless bodies.

And I would cement them in – make a feature. Call it the dead mans jump or leave a branch now or something.

Everyone is right and everyone is wrong! If trail building or tailoring is going to happen responsibly then we need the full consent of the rangers. we can argue all day on here but in reality it makes naff all difference. It would be interesting to hear what the rangers have to say? This is what it boils down to!!!

I’m all up for responsible building and I work 2 mins from CH so i have an interest in any local trails.

BT, i’ll come out for a ride with you one day, but not for a few weeks.

bigthunder – Member
And I would cement them in – make a feature. Call it the dead mans jump or leave a branch now or something.

Leave their arse sticking out of the ground as somewhere to park the bike?

Jeremy – that pic with the cemented rocks was blocked by my work firewall when I looked earlier. Bit of a mess, but I don’t think bigthunder is saying it was him?

CH isn’t really ‘wild’, its man made n managed woodland so I don’t mind too much about a bit of damage, that is messy tho.

Ive spoken to the rangers and their attitude is hard to work out. They sort of seem ok with it as long as its not near badger sets and is done responsibly. Anything stupid will get wrecked. Wish I could link ya to the email I got back from them. Maybe try that later or I go old fashioned dig it out write it down and then post it. Watch this space. Suppose its what someones idea of responsible is.

Winston – I think that was bigthunders work but maybe I was wrong.

I agree it is not pristine wilderness but building new trails, digging, concreting in stones without the permission of the landowner cannot be reasonable can it?

I think that pic of the concrete was a work in progress picture, the finished article looked very natural.

I was going to link back to the Trail Scotland forum where I saw the pictures originally but I can’t find the thread….has it been pulled?

Bigthunder – my understaning is that the two areas of jumps are ignored. No other trail building will be tolerated and will be not wrecked but removed

It would be worth reading through this document… CEC’s new “Rules” for Park Management (from 2013).

“The following acts are prohibited

4.2 Any wilful or careless act which damages or removes any artefact, plant, tree, shrub, building, structure, equipment, furniture or fitting.

4.7 Depositing or leaving any substance or article which is likely (in the opinion of a Council Official) to cause injury or damage to any person or property.

7.1 Cycling at speeds or in a manner likely to endanger other park users.

7.2 Cycling off the paths in woodland and other areas sensitive to environmental damage.”

IThe rocks that you see were a patch up job. They had been put in badly and that photo shows the job halway through. I will pop up there sat am/sun and take some pics of the job as it looks now. Or even better go try find it and then you will agree it blends in and doesnt cause a nuisance to anyone. Adds a killer lineas well! In the video you see at 01.25 a small wooden ramp that was built and at 0130 theres a fallen tree which has stones behind it which were then backfilled and stomped down to make an ace jump. Pure vandalism.

The following Acts are prohibited

4.2
Any wilful or careless act which damages or removes any artefact, plant, tree, shrub, building, structure, equipment, furniture or fitting.

Druid I feel I am complying with those rules and they seem reasonable. Pg – I cant find those pics either. Dont know whats happened.

editted

Tj as far as that goes I would say Ive moved rocks from a to b to make safer landing zones off jumps and I plead guilty to putting 4 screws into the trree stump at 0125 in the video.

TJ – are you telling us that you’ve ridden only the marked paths in CH and nothing else? Otherwise you run the risk of looking like a hypocrite. I share your views about the OP’s trailbuilding aspirations but please don’t go for the black and white approach where you think your activities are beyond reproach.

Edit: I see you’ve removed your reference to point 7.2, was it for that reason?

bigthunder – can I just say that I commend you for approaching the relevant authorities and seeking advice here – also for just having the wherewithall to actually go an build stuff instead of just using other folks hard work.

However, you do say up front that you’re “not the best at dealing with awkward people” and I’d say that comes across on this thread. Expect a lot more of that if you have to compete with the voice of the Corstorphine locals too. I’d also say that your negotiating gambit of “I’m going to build them anyway” is a poor opener and that you’re being a bit naive to think that comments in forums such as this won’t be sought and seized upon. In short, I think you should take a wee step back (frustrating though any delay may seem) and get your communication and negotiating hat on before building anything else.

My 2 pence worth, I very rarely find myself agreeing with TJ but on this I do, as soon as I saw the post a few days ago, I thought oh no. Think it’s great that people are willing to give their time up to build trails but I don’t think Corstorphine hill is the right place for it at all, it’s too small and too popular plus it’s a nature reserve.

I think it’s fine to ride around what’s there but it’s a city park and don’t think the place for MTB trails, ride what there is not build more.
I went along to a friends of Corstorphine hill meeting to complain, not at them but asking to put something in their newsletter/website, about the placement of branches over tails as I think it’s irresponsible and dangerous. The utter hatred and unfounded comments and abuse that I got back was horrible, I have never felt so hated in my life! But after a while and pointing out the rights of way to them, some of them were fairly reasonable, for the most (not all) they are anti bikes but what really annoys them is the building of trails. And do agree with them about building trails. Their problem is with people not respecting the hill and I think they would be lot more welcoming to MTBer’s if “we” went to them and said there will be no building. When I mentioned that someone on here had suggested a night ride on the hill but then was poo pooed as it wasn’t a good idea because of the sensitive nature of the hill, they were really impressed and their attitude and mood lifted.

There are enough routes and paths already not really MTB paths but still fun to ride, there don’t need to be more. And on the note of disrespecting the hill, I walked up one of the built trails a month or so ago with the dog, I have never seen so much litter in one place in the countryside, it was horrible, things like that make it very hard to defend mountain bikers. Not saying it was anyone here but and maybe it wasn’t mountain bikers but it’s seems most likely as it was around the building of the trail, just endless crisp and sweety papers.

I am all for inner city trails, think they are great for a blast round and for kids but, generally for adults, I feel we live in an amazing city for mountain biking, 20-30 mins you can be out on the hills, don’t be so bloody lazy!
Think craigmiller style parks are great for building as parks like that lack regular usage and an identity, generally a bit scrubby, but corstophine hill should left alone.

As I said I think that the OP’s idea of getting a group together and willing to spend their own time building trails is great but the idea of CH is less than great.

Been over the point about the jump park as well. One set is on gtc land and has nowt to do with anyone but them. Thats why noone bothers about them. The second set Im not sure where they are. If its the ones at balgreen road then that area is considered prime for mtb development.

Pg – I cant find those pics either. Dont know whats happened.

I took those photos while helping bigthunder build some of the bits. The previous one was directly linked to my Photobucket.

I pulled the photos from my Photobucket and deleted the thread on Trail Scotland as I can’t be arsed getting involved in anything contentious or possibly illegal.

The linked image shows the base of cement as it was being built which was subsequently buried and covered over with detritus.

It looks 100% natural. There’s no way anyone would know there was cement under it.

AlasdairMc I don’t think I have breached this.

Cycling off the paths in woodland and other areas sensitive to environmental damage

The only offpath bits I can think of are exposed bedrock. Hard to say what is “off paths” really in this context but again – point taken

Lets just get this straight. At no point have I suggested new trails. All I want is to make whats there better for bikes. Better signage and proper pathing in order to protect the woodland. Cyclist only stuff has not only been suggested by me but by D Kyles the ranger as well. I am in touch with the Rangers and IMBA and I wish to see the back of irresponsible trail building as well. What a lot of people here seem to. Be missing is that its happening anyway. The best way to manage whats going on,I think, is through an organisation to build and maintain trails which are made with the rangers consent. They can give permission and I can supply manpower and materials. Just makes sense to me to get it together. And no Im not great at dealing with awkward people but I covered that point in a different part of this post. I am certainly no vandal either.

Bigthunder – the pics and vids clearly show new trails that have been built. The best way to manage what is going on with this is to stay within the law and the LRA and not build unsanctioned trails.

You do not have permission to do what you are doing. Its against the various rules and regulations.

As Druidh says – I admire your wilingness to do this but I ask you to put your energies into a sustainable and appropriate area where you will not increase tensions and conflict or leave it until you have permission.

The unsanctioned trail building of which you are a part is a major source of conflict on the hill and will (as it has been) be used against MTBers

Bikes were definitely banned on Corrie Hill around 1996-8 when I used to ride up there with the uni, there was a lot of signage and we used to have quite a few confrontations with ‘grown ups’.

I’d be interested in the feasibility study too – can someone give a contact email address to get a copy?

Whilst I think it would be good to have official bike trails on the hill, I think it would be difficult to achieve unless you have a lot of time, energy and negociation skills.

I have worked on developing path networks in Edinburgh and my advice would be to be incredibly professional, liaise with everyone involved from local authority to hill users; running an exhibition evening for your proposed plans in the local hall would be a good idea if it really does look like the rangers are supportive and things are moving forwards. But it’ll all have to be off your own back, council staff are too busy to do anything for you.

TandemJeremy – Member

No it wouldn’t – you have no right to exclusive access.

TJ, it’s not about a “right to exclusive access”, it’s about reducing contention. Wherever you have walkers and riders in the same places, there will always be contention- the rangers certainly know this, IMBA know this too. “Rights” just don’t come into it.

Don’t doubt your motivation here but I think you need to take a deep breath and a step back. Responding to attempts to get authorisation to build trails and to legitimise work with “UNAUTHORISED TRAILS ARE ILLEGAL AND ILLEGAL TRAILS ARE IRRESPONSIBLE” is not constructive or helpful.

TB, for your own sanity, you might want to back away from this thread.

If you are building trails with the consent of the rangers then great, but as others have said, it’s not the best idea to bash on regardless.

I’ll definitely help out if the rangers approve with your plans.

Tj what are the new bits of trail in the video? Pg yer right mate – Im off.

Maybe a better idea would be meeting other local users of CH about using existing trails on the hill as they are, ie in there natural condition as they have been tramped out over the years?,

I cant imagine how purpose built MTB trails with jumps, berms etc will work in an area open to the public, old or young, with kids, dogs etc running about…

We ride natural trails here in East Lothian and we only do a bit pruning back here and there, and dig in the odd meter of drainage pipe to help dry a wet area on a narrow path etc, and so far we have had nothing but thanks from the local public when they find out who fixed a previous wet area or cut back overhanging brambles etc,
Tyninghame Woods is a good example, i have managed to make a few existing footpaths that were overgrown and likely to get your eye poked out actually better to walk and now ace to ride 😉

But good on you for trying to arrange something, best of luck 🙂

You should all be more worried about all that asbestos under ground inside the Cold War Rotor Bunker up on top of the hill

Dangerous as hell, but…A good explore 😉