Any 13st Orange Five riders out there – Shock set up question

What is a ballpark pressure for the rear shock (standard RP23)?

Got myself a Five to find out what all the fuss was about. First shakedown ride lastnight. I have been riding a Scott Genius with Horst link and pull shock for the last few years, so the RP23/non-linkage setup is new to me, and has a completely different feel.

I am approx 13st on the bike, I had it at 160psi (according to trying to do it by sag), but withought doing anything too knarly it seemed to be using the full travel a bit too much. My solution will be to put more air in! But just want to know roughly where I should be aiming, and what is too little / too much.

Cheers.

I have about 155psi in mine but I am 14st. I'd say 145-150psi is a starting point.

If it's using the travel too much, switch on some pro-pedal – that's what it's for.

You should be aiming for 30-40% sag when you're sat on the bike, but make sure you fall off the bike sideways when trying to measure it since it'll move if you dismount any other way. 30% gives a more racy ride better for uphills, but 40% gives slacker angles and a lower centre of gravity for singletrack and downhill.

Don't worry about it going through the travel – the design is about as far from your genius as it's possible to be, so it'll feel utterly different.

More propedal, set the sag and then ride it. It takes a long time to get a bike dialled in to the way you want to ride, and even longer for the way you want to ride and the setup of the bike to converge on a happy medium. Took me a couple of years to get my Patriot just perfect.

Don't try and make it like your old bike, but learn to appreciate the feel of the new bike.

there was a few posts about this last yr. I am similar weight on the bike and used to run mine around 150 psi, but upped it to 185 on the back of what was posted up here. works better for me and also makes the propedal more effective (I only use PP on setting 3 and on fireroads mainly). It's an 08 version.

http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/orange-5-rp23-propedal-settings

I am approx 13st on the bike, I had it at 160psi

JESUS CHRIST!!! (sorry).

I'm 10.5 stone and I've set mine at 200psi. You guys must be wallowing around like you're riding a slack trampoline! 😯

Oh, and setting 3…

Cheers for the answers guys. At least I know I'm not way out and I can increase the pressure for a bit of experimentation.

I was using the PP in position 3, as to be honest I can't see the point otherwise (yet!).

I think the tuning on my RP23 is "Med" IIRC. It's an '09/10 frame, brand new – the last of the old models.

Mr Woppit, if you wanted a 100mm of travel maybe you should have bought a 100mm bike?

'08 Five around 160psi here, 12st kitted up. There's nothing wrong with getting full travel if you're not bottoming harshly. A good setup with the Five is to run it a little soft because it firms up under pedalling. It sounds fundamentally wrong but it's actually one of the reasons the Five is so good.

Molgrips, I disagree with the propedal statement, that's not what it's for at all IMO. It's a platform and if you're getting full travel too easily propedal won't help as you'll be going through the platform anyway!

I get full travel on mine with it at 185/190. the big differnece increasing it made was to firm things up a bit and make the PP more effective. I still see the o ring down at the eye most rides with PP off.

Propedal is effectively increased compression damping, which firms it up for pedalling but also helps stop you blowing through travel. Or at least it seems to for me.

Position 3 on propedal makes things really harsh mind – I only ever use it on the road. In fact, I put it on 3 and then flick the lever to off for almost all off-road. The only time I use pro-pedal on road is in certain singletrack where there are certain dips to ride through fast – it helps stop the bike blowing through travel on dips.

I run those pressures because I like slightly slacker angles on this bike – if I put more in the shock it climbs better, but then I have to wind the forks out more to compensate, and I end up with a higher centre of gravity and less manoeuvrability.

I'm about 13.5 to 13.75 stone in full bike gear and have recently started running my shock at 190-195psi, which (imo) gives the bike a perkier pedalling response without too much loss of sus.travel.

FWIW, the shock is a '10 RP23 'boost valve XV' version.

Coil is the only sensible answer.

To what?

Considering how much a small change in pressure changes the way the suspension feels, there's some pretty wide ranging pressures being run here!

For what its worth, I'm 14st 8lbs straight out the shower, so add a camelbak with spares + 3 litres of water and riding kit I'd add another 10lbs to that if not more.

My 5 frame is a crash replacement (thanks to Ben at Orange) 2011 and the RP23 BoostValve shock it came with needs to be run at 210psi ish to not blow through the travel too easily, although it does feel a bit firm on small stuff if run any harder. Can't say it bobs much unless I give it some welly out of the saddle even with the pro pedal off.

Just out of curiosity I tried it with the Push'd RP23 off my termially cracked frame for the last couple of rides and settled that at 195 psi as it's got the lower volume air can. If the platform worked properly on this I'd probably leave it on. It feels slightly less taught, but feels loads more controlled on fast rocky stuff.

Sound's like Mr Woppit should have bought a hardtail. 🙂

I was under the impression that ProPedal is a low speed compression damping adjustment (not strictly a platform which has a defined threshold), with settings 1 to 3 increasing the resistance to low speed inputs eg rolley trails, pedalling forces, etc, but still allows the shock to work when you get a "higher speed" hit, eg drop off landing, square edge, etc.

So in theory (if riding agressively) PP shouldn't affect you reaching full travel??

bigd – I found that the stock Fox PP seems to react better in those circumstances than the Push'd shock.

The Push'd shock seems to be more reluctant to go through the platform even though I reckon it to be less effective at reducing pedaling bob.

I'm tempted to put the smaller air can on the newer shock and see how it feels.

Seems to me that PP affects compression damping on medium stuff also. Far less tendency to wallow through dips even when it's on 1 – loads more support.

Crud.

what a pile of rubbish some people speak….

RTFM…

Or fiddle with it and ride and see the effects, as I do 🙂

Soulrider – thanks for your valuable input!

Feel free to point out the "rubbish" from the useful parts above.

Set at 25% to 30% sag. Propedal for going up an along and off for going down.
If your bottoming out hard increase in 5 psi increments.

Check the setup guide for sag and rebound:

http://www.locotuning.co.uk/tech-info.html

and propedal is for low speed compression and comprises of a poppet vavle type arrangement with a shim stack of sorts too.

any question mail me in profile.

Cheers Loco – Sag measured Standing in "attack"/pointing down hill riding position? or sitting with seat high for climbing/flat? Or some other option/combo??

Edit – should have read the guide first……….

No Problems, hope it's all clear 😀

Loco, you do a shock servicing company? Nice.

Wondering what to do with this Manitou x3 swinger in my garage that needs a service.

I don't service Manitou stuff at present I'm afraid, sorry. 😳

So I either

a) service it for £90 then sell it for not much more
b) try myself
c) sell it for buttons as it still actually works.

I'm probably about 12.5-13st kitted out, mine is at 175psi and that seems fairly plush to me. It goes quite a bit through the travel quite often, but its not harsh when it gets close to bottoming out. Seems just about right to me.

Enjoy!

I'm about 14st, bit more with riding kit attached. Last time I fiddled about I settled on 210psi. Pro pedal on 1 but left open. Rebound as quick as possible without trying to punt me over the bars.

Well, you lot must like being way way above the ground…

Im with Gary Lake on this
But I cant understand how you all are wacking the pressure sky high
and base it all around the Pro Pedal settings.

You should be setting your shock on the fully open setting
and simply switch to pro pedal to stop loosing your effort
on the flat terrain and going up hills.

I would not set the rear shock on attack mode IE standing on
the pedals I set my forks in this mode as my weight is on the
front.
To set the rear i simply sit on the saddle to get the rear
pressure setting.

Just to open up a can of worms 😈

The 'boost valved' R23 on my 2010 Five has a tune of 225psi boost valve, velocity = Firm, rebound = Medium. Whereas my wifes early 2010 Five has 175psi boost valve with medium velocity and rebound. Both are 'stock' tunes from Orange. I don't know if the above is the reason, but to get similar chracteristics, there's about a 10-20 psi difference between the two shocks.

Set at the same amount of sag, both shocks feel good, but in quite different ways. Nice to mess around and switch bikes mid-ride, as hers is a really nice 'descender shock tune' – Only fly in the ointment is that she wants to sell her Five, as she prefers her old Anthem 😥 (no comment)

p.s. anyone want to buy an georgeous hardly used 18" Five let me know!

When I got my Push'd RP23 for my old '05 Five, TF advised 220psi which felt dreadful. I settled on 195 and get full travel a couple of times a ride, at 220 I was only getting about 2/3rds travel.

There seems to be a lot of people on here who expect the impossible from their suspension, and I don't think that the mag and marketing hype help this either.

The holy grail of suspension that doesn't bob under pedaling, doesn't squat through dips, yet feels plush on smaller bumps, gives the best grip and still able to deal with the bigger stuff and drops means vastly different things to different people from reading this.

I'm keen to understand why people who like running the higher pressures do so.

im a light framed just under 11st rider and ran my rp23 at 110psi on the rear on a five when i had it, that gave me 25-30% sag of the shock tube….

dont get get why everyones is so high? mine never bottomed out (the o ring never ever left the actual shock tube)

seems strange but now im unsure whether mine was wrong at all?!!?!?

Taste is a part of it. After having enjoyed my Patriot, I run my 5 with more sag and start pumping the bike through stuff on downhills and singletrack – a habit I got into on the Patriot… so style and tastes change.

molgrips – Member
So I either

a) service it for £90 then sell it for not much more
b) try myself
c) sell it for buttons as it still actually works.

a) You'll be lucky, even after a service
b) Is an option maybe
c) Is there any point? Might as well keep it as a spare if you have issue with your fox (or while you send it away).

Well that was my take on it anyways. Saw mine lurking in a box in the garage the other day, I'd had it serviced but still thought it was pants. Borrowed an RP23 off a friend, went and bought new RP23, 3 way went into box…

I reckon I'll just try myself then. The no-tools spv has stopped working properly, I reckon it's just gummed up or something.

FWIW I quite liked it in use. Less firm in the mid range than the fox but much plusher on a series of big hard hits ie rock garden etc. I got an RP23 second hand for £150 because of the £90 service cost – not massively impressed by the contrast.

unklebuck – Member
When I got my Push'd RP23 for my old '05 Five, TF advised 220psi which felt dreadful. I settled on 195 and get full travel a couple of times a ride, at 220 I was only getting about 2/3rds travel.

There seems to be a lot of people on here who expect the impossible from their suspension, and I don't think that the mag and marketing hype help this either.

The holy grail of suspension that doesn't bob under pedaling, doesn't squat through dips, yet feels plush on smaller bumps, gives the best grip and still able to deal with the bigger stuff and drops means vastly different things to different people from reading this.

I'm keen to understand why people who like running the higher pressures do so.

I run a higher pressure as I'm a fatty and need that amount of psi to get the level of sag I'm happy with (about 20%). With a lower pressure I felt the bike sat too far into it's travel and more importantly skewed the geometry and feel of the bike. I still get full travel or near as dammit full travel so I don't feel shortchanged at all.

I agree with your point about the holy grail of suspension and peoples expectations of suspension tech. Compromise is the key word, especially with mid travel trail bikes. I feel I've reached a pretty good setup with my five,but there's no harm in changing things around and seeing what effect it has.

Unknlebuck sounds like you need the Manitou IXS 6
And thats why my RP 23 is in the drawer as a spare 😉

I have that shock on my Patriot. I like it 🙂

I run around a third sag from my time guiding on Sub 5s – I find that's a pretty good compromise. I tend to run the shock open a lot as well if it's hilly, using propedal for longer, less techy climbs or riding in flatter areas where I'm pedaling out of the saddle more.