What on earth is going on in the Tory party?

Quote from the Independent

“All we have to do is catch the prime minister with a live boy or a dead girl and we are away”

OK it’s an unnamed Tory MP, but that’s a pretty specific type of statement which implies knowledge of some sort.

Pigs and student hi-jinks are one thing, and I find this pretty unbelievable, but…

It looks like it’s been pulled already.

It’s a failing party that got in with a flawed voting system. It is all very petty but I’d like to see a general election come early as staying under this government regardless of the eu vote will damage the country more.

Not sure I understand that live boy dead girl quote. Care to explain?

This is quite remarkable: not even AusPol is this brutal and we’ve had five PMs in about as many years…

Why does the boy have to be alive and the girl dead?

Not sure I understand that live boy dead girl quote. Care to explain?

Edwin Edwards apparently

Not sure I understand that live boy dead girl quote. Care to explain?

Just another way to say “smoking Gun” well I think but hard to tell as they sound like kids squabbling.

This PM is very weak.

I have a feeling that he is on the way out coz he has lost control of the party.

Worst still the major oppositions are all down right loonies and clowns who pretend to be “rational” – a bunch of out of touch elites that should not be given the right to govern for at least 3 generations.

Rock and a hard place here we come …

Not sure I understand that live boy dead girl quote. Care to explain?

It made no sense to me. As mentioned, apparently :

The quote is originally attributed to US politician and former Louisiana governor Edwin Edwards, who said in 1983: “The only way I can lose this election is if I’m caught in bed with either a dead girl or a live boy.”

I still don’t understand why it’s relevant in the context of Cameron, but then again his fellow Tory detractors aren’t exactly great thinkers or intellectual heavyweights.

They appear to be mostly noisy attention seekers such as Boris Johnson. And Nadine Dorries ? FFS.

It’s a failing party that got in with a flawed voting system.

Nobody ever complains when they get the outcome they want.
Most system have their flaws and quirks.

+1 mike

Tories don’t need little boys – just let Europe rip them apart. It’s usually works!

And people still want politicians running even more of the economy. Bizarre concept…

Nobody ever complains when they get the outcome they want.

Nail on the head. Who would you prefer anyway, Corbyn? Lol.

That’s because to complain about something you’re happy with is a contradiction in terms.

Ernie complaining about something you are happy with is to be truly British

Nobody ever complains when they get the outcome they want.

Well when you say nobody you clearly mean some, as I’ve always maintained it.

Nobody ever complains when they get the outcome they want.
Most system have their flaws and quirks.

Yes, but most voting systems don’t result in an outright majority from about ? of the vote. PR like we have in the Aus Senate is by far the fairest

teamhurtmore – Member
– just let Europe rip them apart. It’s usually works!

That’s the problem because your politicians are now unable to take on important decisions other than hiding behind the EU-crats and their rules to justify their arguments.

They now have to justify their political career by complying to external rules imposed on them.

All are pretending to “govern” but in effect the puppet masters are somewhere else.

You are witnessing the exact bureaucratic system working …

Ernie complaining about something you are happy with is to be truly British

I thought it was truly British not to complain, ever. Beyond disapproving tutting of course. Mustn’t crumble and all that.

Still I’m not truly British, it ain’t in my DNA, so what do I know.

PR like we have in the Aus Senate is by far the fairest

6.5% of the vote
And Ricky Muir with 0.51% of the vote?

That’s the problem because your politicians are now unable to take on important decisions other than hiding behind the EU-crats and their rules to justify their arguments.

They now have to justify their political career by complying to external rules imposed on them.

No really. 😯

See the Euro thread for why that is tosh as an idea.

6.5% of the vote
And Ricky Muir with 0.51% of the vote?

Incorrect. They got that much of the primary vote, they then won seats on preferences transferred from other less popular parties. In any case, you’ll be well aware that the more questionable preference transfers have been pretty much flattened by the reforms passed a couple of months back.

I am zokes but that was the people who voted for that pair. Also those expecting different results for UK elections based on superimposing a different system should also note how people play the system they have to win. I wouldn’t expect the votes to be cast I the same way if you dropped the Oz system on the UK.

teamhurtmore – Member
No really.
See the Euro thread for why that is tosh as an idea.

You (country etc) have sleep-walked into the whole mess long time ago so any sort of counter arguments can never make sense. There are plenty of ways to govern and the EU way is just but another way.

Does that mean we are like building “Rome” now in the first 100 years and “be Rome” for another 100 years before it gets dismantle to start the cycle again?

I wouldn’t expect the votes to be cast I the same way if you dropped the Oz system on the UK.

No, I suspect smaller parties would get a larger proportion of the vote as the feel of wasting a vote would be reduced. Conversely, there would probably be far fewer SNP MPs. So yes, I agree that it’s complex. However, FPTP is about as crap a system as you could devise to represent the broad will of the electorate.

ernie_lynch – Member
…The quote is originally attributed to US politician and former Louisiana governor Edwin Edwards, who said in 1983: “The only way I can lose this election is if I’m caught in bed with either a dead girl or a live boy.”

Thanks. I didn’t realise it was a use of quotes.

I must say I’m relieved that it’s not an assertion that our PM is a kiddy fiddler. I think we’ve had enough of that.

Thanks. I didn’t realise it was a use of quotes.

I must say I’m relieved that it’s not an assertion that our PM is a kiddy fiddler. I think we’ve had enough of that.
Exactly the same as the student/pig accusations, which were used in America years ago as a tactic to destroy the reputation of opposition politicians. Nothing new or real about it, which is pretty much why it died a death.

I have a feeling that he is on the way out coz he has lost control of the party

Stunning insight from chewy, since Cam the Ham already announced that he is stepping down before the next election.

Channels 4’s fuss about election expenses may yet bite them on the bum. Though the MSM otherwise seem to be ignoring it.

Most system have their flaws and quirks.

All systems have their flaws and quirks.

I assume that being caught with a live girl would be problematic but caught with a dead girl would be “career-fatal”. Likewise being caught with a live boy would be “career-fatal” – the boy would not need to be dead to seal the deal.

Not sure where the lines are regarding animals . . . .

caught with a dead girl would be “career-fatal”.

Well, Ted Kennedy managed

they then won seats on preferences transferred from other less popular parties

I never like this idea. I want one person/party to win. I don’t want some second place loser because of transferred votes, or worse a system which requires me to vote for my 2nd favourite in case the 1st doesn’t win. I may only like one person and hate the rest (though usually I hate them all).

Honestly though, I don’t think this whole affair shows that Cameron is weak.

The latest round of bleating from the leave campaign seams to be the high pitched screaming of a bunch of racists who know they are going to lose.

It’s all very tea party/trumpesque.

The latest round of bleating from the leave campaign seams to be the high pitched screaming of a bunch of racists who know they are going to lose.
It’s all very tea party/trumpesque.

I agree but the thinly veiled hate speech peddled by Fox news, the Tea Pary, Trumps birther campaign etc fertilised the ground for Trump’s ascension to Republican candidate and who knows what else.

Likewise the rise of UKIP becoming an acceptable alternative to the BNP, or PM taking about swarms of migrants, Borris walking the racism tightrope, just makes a racism more likely, just look at Vote Leave using neo Nazis to man their stalls etc

DrJ – Member 
I have a feeling that he is on the way out coz he has lost control of the party
Stunning insight from chewy, since Cam the Ham already announced that he is stepping down before the next election.

😀

Honestly though, I don’t think this whole affair shows that Cameron is weak.

The latest round of bleating from the leave campaign seams to be the high pitched screaming of a bunch of racists who know they are going to lose.

Cameron has played the campaign very badly, calling in Obama and then all the other nonsense including the IMF who then announced they will release more detailed information just a few days before the vote is a disgrace, thats clear interference in the politics. Add the 9m leaflet fiasco.

As for uncontrolled immigration it was always going to be Leave’s strongest card and the timing is natural to focus on it as we enter the home straight. Cameron has no defence as his manifesto commitment was for immigration in 10’s thousands whereas its at record levels and his “renegotiations” have been a sham and he has no comeback.

I still think it will be very close with Leave campaigners passionate about the chnace to break free of the EU and apathetic Remainers not being bothered to vote. You can see ow worried Remain are with all these efforts to getbpeople tomreigster to vote, we don’t see that atbthe GE do we ?

Cameron has played the campaign very badly, calling in Obama and then all the other nonsense including the IMF who then announced they will release more detailed information just a few days before the vote is a disgrace, thats clear interference in the politics. Add the 9m leaflet fiasco.

As for uncontrolled immigration it was always going to be Leave’s strongest card and the timing is natural to focus on it as we enter the home straight. Cameron has no defence as his manifesto commitment was for immigration in 10’s thousands whereas its at record levels and his “renegotiations” have been a sham and he has no comeback.

I still think it will be very close with Leave campaigners passionate about the chnace to break free of the EU and apathetic Remainers not being bothered to vote. You can see ow worried Remain are with all these efforts to getbpeople tomreigster to vote, we don’t see that atbthe GE do we ?

But the majority don’t give a shit about anything except having a decent economy 🙂 , vote leave thought they had it in the bag a year ago and their lead has been systenatically wiped out.

Why was it a disgrace for the IMF and other financial instutions to weigh in? Do you want opinion from people who know what they are talking about, or politicians? Vote leave would have been the first ones to trump the IMF horn, if the IMF had come out and said we should go.

Vote leaves reaction has to been stick their fingers in their ears , accuse the other side of bullying them and pull the “look at all these brown people” card.

Unfortunately, a lot of brown people will vote 😀

I never like this idea. I want one person/party to win.

In which case you only mark one box, or as many as you’d like. In the UK, if you were right wing, that might go UKIP 1, Tory 2, then no more. Left wing you might go Greens 1, Labour 2, Lib Dems 3. No need to keep going with the remaining least worst options. In my case, I’d rather even the Liberal Demiflops won on preferences than UKIP won with only 20% of the primary vote.

At least preferences provide some means of carrying voter preferences through so votes for lesser parties carry some value. Nobody votes Green in the UK for instance as it’s pretty much a wasted vote. If you knew that a vote for the Greens on point of principle wouldn’t prevent you from trying to elect the ‘next best’ option from a pragmatic perspective through the preferences flowing to Labour, more people would probably vote for who they actually want.