Alfine Hubs

Anyone know of someone in the Manchester area who might let me have a quick blast on one (5 minutes)? I was completely sold on the idea but Flatfish's comments have concerned me. Really don't want to drop £200 on one and then not like it and have to get the whole wheel rebuilt and buy a Hope hub!

i'm not tryin to put you off but i'm reviewing it from a outsiders point of view, you know how it is, nobody will ever admit they bought a dog of a bike/car/hub/etc.
all i'm saying is it's not for me so i'll stick with regular gears which i admit get clogged with mud and wear a lot quicker.

I can understand flatfishes concerns – For me the advantages outweigh the disadvantages for some types of riding. for a 24 hr enduro bike for a non racer such as me they are great. The fixed chainline / chain centres and lack of maintenance / missed shifts outweigh the slightly sluggish shif tand th3 non even gear spread.

If you buy one and don't like it they have a high resale value.

Regarding the issue with the hub not liking to change to an easier gear under load… You quickly adapt a better technique, changing to an easier gear slightly before you need it. Anyone remember 10-15 years ago before derailleur setups were quite so advanced and would readily shift gear under load? We all had to back off to enable them to shift then… Wouldn't say it's an issue at all personally, I just look a bit further down the terrain and assess what gear I'm likely to need before I come to a climb/obstacle. The massive benefit of being able to shift gears when stationary, should you say get stuck on a climb and have to restart, is ace though!

The spread of gears is a little wide if you're used to a 9spd cassette. It's not horrendous though. Most gears are fairly well spaced, there are 2 quite big jumps though. These being between 1st and 2nd gears, and again between 5th and 6th. Personally I don't find this an issue. With the gearing that I've got on my bike, the 5th to 6th jump is fairly irrelevant, because I'm generally only using 6th 7th and 8th gears either on road or on anything pointing downwards. So I'm getting some gravity or terrain related assistance. 2nd to 5th are well spaced, and it's these gears I use most of the time offroad. The 1st to 2nd jump isn't massive though, only slightly more pronounced than going from 1st to 2nd on "normal" 11-32T cassette. No real biggie, first is primarily a bail out gear anyway, so the fact it's a lot easier is actually a positive for many.

Best way to think about it is like this… Are you the kind of rider that regularly uses all 27 gears on his MTB and values having a gear to keep the correct cadence for every situation and doesn't mind a fair bit of maintenance to keep everything working just so in the British Mud? Or are you the kind of rider that has questioned the need for a big ring on his MTB (or possibly already removed it), and also rarely uses the largest cog on the cassette on his current bike, and is fed up with maintaining a derailleur system in the British Mud?

If you're the former, don't bother, Alfine will not be for you… If like many of us you're the latter, an Alfine is quite probably going to seriously impress you. People have said to "think of it as a SingleSpeed with 8 gears" rather than think like it's a geared bike. Not sure if this is true or not, as I do actually still tend to change gear quite a bit on mine. But I've had a couple of DH bikes in the past, with a single 36 or 28T chainring up front, and an 11-32T cassette out back, and used to amaze myself how much I could actually ride if forced to get out of the saddle and honk a bit more when it came to the climbs. So a single ring with only 8/9 gears is quite "normal" for me anyway… The fact that one of my bikes has a full 27 speed setup is only because that's the one that gets used if I know that the ride will involve a combination of very steep climbs and/or lots of on-road sections where I will benefit a lot from the higher gearing. Rest of the time I make do with 2 rings and a bash, or a single ring.

Oh and as TJ says, they have a high resale value and are always in demand. Don't like it once you've tried it, you won't lose much money selling it on…

Thanks Maverick Boy. I think I'll give one a whirl.

I very rarely use the big chainring, however I do use the largest cog on the cassette, but I think sometimes that just psycological. I could always adjust the gearing though to suit. The other thing is I only ride full suss bikes at the moment, both of which are "sit down and pedal" bikes (Yeti & Commencal). This will be for a Scandal build and if my memory serves me correctly you can get out of the saddle a bit more on a hardtail.

The more I think about it the less the shifting will be a problem. I grew up on a late 80's Rockhopper. As you said, you selected your gear before the climb and then accepted you weren't going to be able to change without backing off. I do change gear a lot nowadays though. But said by previous poster – it's 8 singlespeeds, shouldn't take much getting used to.

I'm building the bike primarily for a couple of solos later in the year. I won't be "racing" so to speak, just plodding around in circles for 24 hours. Potential of ripping the mech off / getting continually caked in mud etc is far worse than not so slick shifting.

Right, that will do it then. Alfine here we come… Now, what wheels do we need?

Now, what wheels do we need?

26" or 29er?

with a single 36 or 28T chainring up front

Ooops, that was meant to say "36T or 38T"

Potential of ripping the mech off / getting continually caked in mud etc is far worse than not so slick shifting.

Oh, the shifting is slick enough alright… No clunks, thumps or anything, unlike a derailleur setup. It just doesn't like changing to an easier gear under too much load. Which in reality is much better long term than a derailleur setup that will change to an easier gear under a lot of load, with lots of crunching, ultimately wearing your cassette away quite quickly. Even on my derailleured bikes, I've always been the kind of person to be as kind as I possibly can to the gears in use, and try to pre-shift to an easier gear before I might need it. XT cassettes ain't cheap after all!

I could always adjust the gearing though to suit.

You could. Tandem Jeremy recently ran 22T up front with an 18T cog iirc. Wouldn't recommend that personally, it's outside of Shimano's recommended gearing range (based upon the torque load the clutch in the hub is rated for), but by the sounds of things he didn't kill it. Gave him the equivalent of just the granny ring with an 11-34T cassette!

I'm running 34/22 on my 29er, gives me the equivalent bottom gear of 22T chainring with 27T cog, and equivalent top gear of 32T chainring with 12T cog on the back. So compared to a dual ring setup, I'm missing the very bottom gear, and the very top gear essentially. Compared to a 3 ring setup I'm only missing the very bottom gear, and the three tallest gears in the largest chainring… So in reality my current gear ratio covers about 95% of my normal riding… I just have to get out the saddle a bit more on a couple of climbs, and coast a bit on fast DH onroad sections…

Just seen on your other thread that you're 6ft 6 and 18 stone…

In which case, DEFINITELY do not go out of the Shimano recommended gearing range (of which lowest recommended is 32/20 or equivalent iirc) as at your size you're likely to put a lot more torque through the clutch than me at a tad shy of 12 stone…

People with Alfine set ups where have you place the shifter on the bar, has anyone managed to squeeze it between the brake lever and the grip?

I ask as when I rode a Charge Duster 8 last year I found that I had to move my hand from the most natural position on the grips (i.e. where I could brake) to downshift. This was with the shifter inside of the brake lever.

People with Alfine set ups where have you place the shifter on the bar, has anyone managed to squeeze it between the brake lever and the grip?

Due to the design of the Alfine shifter, there's no way it will fit outside of the brake lever sadly…

You're more than welcome to pop round and try it on my 29er though if you want mate…

You get your Tricross sorted incindentally?

Can I just echo what maverick boy said – ! went very low on the gearing but I knew I wan't going to be really mashing the gears and I am 12.5 stone. It was very silly tho – spinning away at 3 mph and spinning out at 14 mphish

32/20 will give you a reasonably low gear and I thought you could go to 32/23 which gives a fairly low gear. rear sprockets are fairly cheap to experiment with as well. £5 or so IIRC

Edit – if you take the indicator off the shifter you can fir it between lever and grip or use the nexus twistie

You're more than welcome to pop round and try it on my 29er though if you want mate…

You get your Tricross sorted incindentally?

I do want to have a spin on your 29er at some point, the question was purely just curiosity.

No to the tricross, going to take it to the shop at some point this week.

Saccades – Member

Edit – Ah you qualified yourself. So your saying the alfine weighs about 3.5lb… which is what it weighs… then the shifters and cables would cancel out. Your 8lb statement was very misleading.

No, I am saying the Alfine set-up is about 2.5lbs heavier. Read the post properly.

I agree that saying 'There's about 8lbs difference between the bikes although the heavier forks and tyres will account for part of it.' But 'very misleading'? No.

mk1 fan – its a lot less than that. The hub weighs 3.5lbs. You have to take the weight of a standard hub, casette, mech, off from that.

Shimano deore hub – thata 400+ g or so I believe plus a cassette – deore is 350 grammes = a mech – 300 g – call over a kg. alfine complete ( I am discounting the cables and lever as both set ups ancd comparing 1×8 with the alfine) 1.6 kilos – so its 600 grammes ish – call it a lb and a half.

TJ,

You're just wrong. The frames weigh similar, the heavier components are accounted for, the remaining weight difference is all down to the Alfine. If the scales are wrong they'd be wrong on both of them.

I'm not running bottom spec components which would weigh nearer to the Alfine.

I'm really happy with my Alfine but it is heavier and more than you're quoting.

Mk 1 fan – go look at weight weenies. someone on here weighed their hub at 1.6 kgs – thats 3.5 lbs. Are you telling me that your 1×9 dérailleur set up weighed a lb? According to weightweenies its nearer 2.5 lb for deore 1×9

Did you forget to include the weight of the hub?

where are my figures wrong?

Sorry – its you who has miscalculated – you simply cannot get a cassette, rear hub, QR and mech for onepound in weight.

Alfine hub – 1600g
Alfine sprocket – 50g

XT M772 medium cage mech – 227g
XT 11-34 cassette – 300g
XT M775 disc hub – 411g

That in my book means the Alfine set up is 700g heavier than an XT rear end. Of course I am ignoring the fact you lose the weight of a LH shifter and a front mech.

And of course you use shorter spokes with an Alfine hub so there is a few grams saved too 😛

seems about right to me Mister P. I got 600 grammes on the back of a fag packet. Now way is it 1,2 kg

What are you talking about?

I've broken down the weight differences between the bikes already and the result is the Alfine set up adds about 2.5lbs to my bike set up.

Again, I don't see why you're mentioning Deore (which would reduce the weight difference). I've said that bottom / entry range components haven't been used.

Hence why my figures are for XT V Alfine.

I was typing whilst you were posting.

The situation is that on my bike set up the Alfine adds about 2.5lbs to the overall weight.

Deal with it ladies and move on.

F*Ck the weight, has anyone tried to use one for DH? Will it just explode. Im sure this a more important question!

One of the guys here ran one on a Dialled Bikes Alpine last season in the Alps.

Seen a few used and abused but not for DH. I did drops and jumps on mine contrary to Shimano's guidance for the last 14-months and there was no damage when it was serviced. I'm not light at 15-stone plus in my kit.

Although, I have read threads where they've imploded being used on a commuter.

Mk1 fan – sorry you are clearly wrong. I don'yt know waht 1×9 set up including a hub you can get that weighs under a lb. Go look at MrPs figures.

TJ,

I reitterate –

The situation is that on my bike set up the Alfine adds about 2.5lbs to the overall weight.

Deal with it ladies and move on.

I'm really tempted by the io id, Genesis

http://www.genesisbikes.co.uk/bikes/mountain/io-ioid/

Could you live with this as your only mountain bike? (within the normal constraints of a 100mm travel hardtail)

I'd gear it right down I think, I just don't seem to use high gears that often off road

Does the hub feel good pedalling in a gear. Or is it a bit soggy and ineffiecient feeling?

How can it? Simply impossible old chap – the hub weighs 3.5 lbs and the components it replaces weigh 2 lb .

You have missed something out. You simply are wrong. Arithmetic does not lie.

ampthill – I like it but it but the lack of range of gears is a bit of a shortcoming when I am used to 2×9 and you get 1×9 with the alfines.

I know that the hub at glentress hs then as hire bikes and I guess other places do as well if you want to try them out.

I've heard the 32:20 min gear ratio thing loads of times, can anyone point me in the direction of an official Shimano document that sets this lower limit, the only time I've read this is in reviews and on forums. I currently run 32:20 but in the past I've happily stood on the pedals with 32:22.

heres my alfine heres a pi

I have not been able to find one nor any indication of one and my understanding was that 32/23 was the lowest allowable. My 22/18 is well lower than that. I didn't stand on the pedals tho

i work in a shop and we have an Alfine built into a black 317 as in my previous pic, not the same but another one for sale including shifter fitting kit and cog for £225. if your iunterested let me know.

Someone remind me and I will look into the min/max sprocket size at work in the morning.

Sadly having done the maths I don't think the range is quite big enough for me. This is due to my desire for a lowest gear of 22 30 equivilant.

Oh well its a great concept…..

ampthill – alfine on 32 / 23 gearing give a bottom gear of 22 / 30 equivalent with a top gear of 32 /14 equivalent. according to the fine calculator some chap whose name I forgot gave me.

go look at weight weenies. someone on here weighed their hub at 1.6 kgs

I was curious! 😳

ampthill – alfine on 32 / 23 gearing give a bottom gear of 22 / 30 equivalent with a top gear of 32 /14 equivalent. according to the fine calculator some chap whose name I forgot gave me.

OK, this time I was bored and curious! 😳

I've heard the 32:20 min gear ratio thing loads of times, can anyone point me in the direction of an official Shimano document that sets this lower limit, the only time I've read this is in reviews and on forums. I currently run 32:20 but in the past I've happily stood on the pedals with 32:22.

Can't remember who/where it was, but I spoke to someone about this who had already enquired via Shimano about this… Basically, anything down to 32/20 is deemed as ok, anything lower and don't expect to be able to warranty it if anything goes wrong… If they can of course prove it. I don't think it's a set in stone thing, more of a min. recommendation that they go by, rather than using a min. weight limit. Of course, they could go the other way and say that you are free to use whatever gearing you want, but nobody over 10 stone can ride one…

One guy in the states was running a 26/22 setup on his apparently. At 18 stone and riding big hills all day, he managed to strip the clutches on his, which is the torque related issue that Shimano are warning against. To be fair though, I think (can't be 100% sure) he got it fixed under warranty. But of course he had to send it back, and that's a load of hassle etc.

Think of it more like this… At 18 stone would you run a set of coil sprung forks with the Standard Medium strength Spring, or would you buy the Extra Firm spring before riding it? At 12st I can get away with the medium, and won't kill my forks, but if I were 18st I'm going to exert a lot more force on it. Rockshox isn't saying they wouldn't fix my fork if I ran it undersprung, but you could pretty much guarantee I'd bugger it up in a short space of time if it was that severely undersprung if you get my drift…

So my advice based on that is if you're a big guy, don't expect to be able to gear it down that much… If you're similar weight to myself, you can probably get away with doing what TJ did and running a 22T up front if you so desire…

Sadly having done the maths I don't think the range is quite big enough for me. This is due to my desire for a lowest gear of 22 30 equivilant.

Using a 34/22 on mine gives me an equivalent bottom gear of 22/27… Was worried it'd kill me, but honestly, it's like 1 gear difference on a 9spd cassette… Try it, it'll put hairs on your chest if nothing else! 😉

Does the hub feel good pedalling in a gear. Or is it a bit soggy and ineffiecient feeling?

VERY direct, not at all mushy. I've ridden plenty of freehubs on "normal" hubs before that are a lot less direct and feel mushy in comparison.

Again, anyone else wants the gear calculator spreadsheet, just email me… Email is in my profile…

I normally run single speed 32/18 on my 29er but round these parts are very hilly and you get no rest when your out with a group so i took a punt and bought a built alfine wheel running it the same 32/18 set up.yes you have to back of for it change gear sometimes if under load but it aint that bad. I tend to just keep it in 4th and only use other gears on killer hills or fast road keeping up.

Recommended? yes.

So my advice based on that is if you're a big guy, don't expect to be able to gear it down that much… If you're similar weight to myself, you can probably get away with doing what TJ did and running a 22T up front if you so desire…

surely it's a power rather than a weight issue?
you might be a hefty chap but have weedy legs??

It's weight AND power. Lots of power but little weight would be fine and lots of weight but little power ditto. Heavy riders with lots of power will be really bad (that's me then!). Typically though bigger guys will be more powerful though their power to weight ratio will be lower which makes them less good at hill climbing.

surely it's a power rather than a weight issue?

It's a torque issue, not power…

Torque kills gearboxs and clutches (which is what the Alfine is) not Power…

A Big heavy guy is going to exert a lot more toque on the hub than a much smaller guy, simply by standing on the pedals! OK, Lance Armstrong might exert even more torque again still by being a superhuman with an incredibly efficient pedalling technique, but none of us are that I suspect!

Power = Torque x (Rotational) Speed

Remember that!

So Power is kind of irrelevant if the speed is increased. A Big Guy churning the pedals at 50rpm but applying 100Nm of torque is producing the same Power as a small guy spinning the pedals at 100rpm but only applying 50Nm of torque.

The Big Guy is going to kill/wear out things much faster though!