Advice for someone with no pension.

It’s not about boredom and suicide.

There’s a 40% increased risk of CVD and related issues in the year post retirement in men -toys doesn’t fix that.

Women are likely to fare much better at around 1-1.55% increase in the same.

You’re confusing correlation and causation.

Anecdote time – we had a shift manager retire after years of health problems with the ridiculous lump sum and pension that went with the job, didn’t even last 3 months.

Was it retirement that killed him or the lifestyle leading up to it?

A lot of folk had the option to go at 55 but chose not to and stayed on until they were basically forced into it by failing health, I have no doubt this is true across industry.

The point about cutting your cloth to suit is also a good one, if you don’t try to live a high roller lifestyle then there is less pressure to maintain it and easier to build a pot to go early.

I’m 52, my Dad was a copper and mum a housewife, there was no spare money to ‘invest’, in fact the house they bought at 20 for £3500, they owed £35,000 on by the time they moved at 50. So they didn’t really have the knowledge to advise us kids. I suspect lots of 50 yr olds are in the same boat.

Over the last few years I have gained a lot of knowledge through a friend who’s business has done well, so he’s needed proper financial advice, plus Meaningful Money and James Shack.

I am now putting as much as possible into my Vanguard pension each year. And we put the full amount into a pension in our 12 year olds name this year too. The wife is a copper so at least we have one half decent pension.

Things I think I’ve learnt…

Martyn Lewis – the age you start your pension is the percentage of your wage that you will need to put in each year.

And if you put the full £2880 per year in for your child from 1-18, by the time they hit 68 it will potentially be worth £700,000 (sounds mad, so maybe I’ve misunderstood this)

My son will definitely have the understanding of compound interest that my Dad didn’t give me.

Age 34 I bought a BTL and stopped paying into my pension, I really wish I’d carried on paying in.

I do also agree with those that want to live for now though. Your body and brain won’t get any better and your kids are only young once. Perhaps it’s better to think in terms of earning something until you can’t rather than missing out on this part of your life.

I cram my hours into 4 days now (Barber) and try and use that extra day wisely.

And we put the full amount into a pension in our 12 year olds name this year too.

I’m not a fan of this approach, it ties the money up until they are 57 (probably older by the time they get there), when the chances are they’ll need it for things like house deposits.

I did start a pension when my daughter was born, but rapidly decided that funding a child trust fund was a better option as the money is available when they reach 18.

But if you are in a position to do both then, yes , good idea.

And if you put the full £2880 per year in for your child from 1-18, by the time they hit 68 it will potentially be worth £700,000 (sounds mad, so maybe I’ve misunderstood this)

It’s possibly correct but a misleading figure because 700k won’t be worth as much in 70 years time. With inflation at 3% average prices double every 23 years, so in 70 years 700k is worth somewhere around 90k today – a reasonable amount but much closer to the 50k you put in

Was it retirement that killed him or the lifestyle leading up to it?

Well flipside anecdote is I’ve seen seemingly fit healthy people retire and succumb to it shortly after retiring(early) also.

And then also begs the question -whys it so prevalent in only men -in studies conducted up to 6.5 years post retirement -not discriminating wether it’s early retirement or not.

Your no doubt both right and yes, we have a Vanguard S&S USA running for him too.

My Father in law died this year so we took the opportunity to add in the pension option too. The way I look at it, it’s a good way to teach him these things early so he doesn’t end up like a lot of us.

@trail_rat

And then also begs the question -whys it so prevalent in only men -in studies conducted up to 6.5 years post retirement -not discriminating wether it’s early retirement or not.

Because men have a greater tendency to vegetate and are more likely to struggle with making new friends and developing new interests after they retire. In short for many men their work is a massive part of what defines them, and they struggle to replace it when it’s gone, women’s identities tend to be more diverse.

I should also add that I agree with whoever pointed out that growing really old looks a bit shit. On that note I’ve just signed Pru’s Dignity for Dying, failing that, helium.

“Because men have a greater tendency to vegetate and are more likely to struggle with making new friends and developing new interests after they retire. In short for many men their work is a massive part of what defines them, and they struggle to replace it when it’s gone, women’s identities tend to be more diverse.”

not sure that applies to my generation (or below) – 90s child. Maybe cyclists ate skewed out of this as we have hobbies. And I’m sure if cycling is a hobby, you likely have others too or could easily swap to another one being comfortable joining clubs etc

I’m thinking that if I can’t make £(p) last between starting to need a pension (r) and not needing a pension any more (d} perhaps I need to decrease (d-r) so that the p is a more useful number.

Either increase r, or decrease d.

Sure there’s days in mid February where you might say to yourself You know what , I’d rather be at work today, but for 9 months of the year…hell no.

I’d assume I’d suffered a significant head injury for that kind of depraved thought to enter my mind 😀

Have a friend who retired 5 years earlier than she thought she could IFA went through the numbers and reminded her that retirement has three stages each need a decreasing amount of money per year.
Go Go stage, Go Slow stage and No Go stage.
Having looked at my pension it’s not as bad as I thought it might be.
There is a stark reminder about aging in the predictions. I am lucky enough to get a lump sum which is about 75% of my annual salary if I go at 60. If I stay on to 67 then it’s 3x my salary and my annual pension increases by 50%. I know of no teachers who are thinking about going to the bitter end

@flannol – yeah that maybe true about younger generations?

To be clear, it happens to women as well as men, but IME it’s much more common in men.

WRT growing old, it’s what you make of it. The people I’ve seen do best are the ones who keep going for as long as possible doing as much as possible.

Like my dad at the moment, he’s helping us unblock the bath using his plumbing skills. He’s 96.

Kramer

Its not just younger generations.  Im in my 60s and my peers who have retired do not face this.  My parents in their late 80s as are their pals.  None of them have been like that either.

@tjagain, I didn’t say it was everyone. Some do well, but a lot do not. And by definition, the ones who don’t you’re not likely to hear much from.

There’s many interesting points amongst the last two pages some hidden in the text but thanks for posting.  There possibley many people in indecision right now – at least those of us that don’t/can’t live in the moment – about this kind of thing.

Personally speaking I thought I’d retire at 60 and probably could on Ton style basis, but actually want a little more out of post retirement.  I do bored very badly, and don’t enjoy diy or gardening or those kinds of Daily pottering things, which doesn’t help my decision making when I think of the sudden amount of time I’d have on my hands.   So I find myself in a position where I could command a decent salary as one of those 50-60yo’s you see in civil engineering companies, pumping money into a pension but working 60 hours a week.  But as I’m doing that now with chagrin, the thought of doing that for 10 and even 17 years more makes me a bit sick.    Despareate to find a job I enjoy, my middle ground would be a lesser paid more enjoyable job, yet I’ve kids and Uni’s to think about… etc.

I know I’m not the only one in my position, but it can be a difficult point in life if your of a certain disposition to overthink or worry about all of these facts presented so far.   The default position of course is to do nothing and let the universe decide one’s fate….  🤷‍♂️

IFA went through the numbers and reminded her that retirement has three stages each need a decreasing amount of money per year.

Very good point.

From amongst my peers I think patterns of retirement are changing.  Few will go from full time work to 100% retired.  Many will go from full time decently paid work to part time lessor paid work topped up with whatever bits of pension they have or savings and not retire fully till on or after 68

Its quite common in the health service to do this.  Take your pension at 60 ( those who can – newer entrants cannot without penalty)  then move to a part time lower grade post for their last 5-10 years

Have a friend who retired 5 years earlier than she thought she could IFA went through the numbers and reminded her that retirement has three stages each need a decreasing amount of money per year.
Go Go stage, Go Slow stage and No Go stage.

Assuming of course you don’t need some sort of care in your end days.

The home my wife works for is £80k a year with very few council places. They will pick up the tab after a few years though.

That’s the price of decent care.

tj – that may be the case for NHS employees but, typically, is not true of private sector employees.

Take your pension at 60 ( those who can – newer entrants cannot without penalty)  then move to a part time lower grade post for their last 5-10 years

Mrs S is planning to take her (NHS) pension at 60 and then do part time in her current post.

A friend of mine retired to Cyprus (he’s 50% Greek Cypriot) at 57 a year before the pandemic, on the basis his pensions would be enough to allow them to live and eat out twice a week until they couldn’t.

He’s been eating out almost daily, and has had several trips to long weekend euro destinations – he’s a very social person – and agrees now he needs a small part time job to top up the funds.   He’s putting it off, but it’s coming.  The reason he’s putting it off is that its seasonal around the tourist season so means working at a bar / waiting table in the worst of the summer heat most likely, not something he wants to do.

It reminds me of those programs on TV you see of people that move to Spain for ” a better life” then end up working for 14 hours a day – no thank you!

Some of the private sector folk are also doing this.  I know at least two in their 50s who are either about to do this or have done it.   Gone from a full time high paying job to a lower paid part time job in their late 50s / early 60s.  Yes its easier in the public sector but it can be done in the private sector

I do think this will be a pattern that becomes more prevalent.  Partial retirement or graduated retirement rather than a cliff edge.

People in high pressure jobs simply cannot keep up that level of commitment and stress into their late 60s so the last ten years or so of their working life will be lower hours / lower stress jobs.

It’s common in my industry as folk wind down. They do 2-3 days a week consultancy in their area of expertise.

I do bored very badly, and don’t enjoy diy or gardening or those kinds of Daily pottering things, which doesn’t help my decision making when I think of the sudden amount of time I’d have on my hands.

I also do bored very badly but conversely that was my reason for taking early retirement. Life is now far more interesting and enjoyable than spending 8 hours a day at the office. Genuinely haven’t been bored for a minute.  All my retired pals say the same.

The boredom/interesting thing can work both ways.

Onlyfans or UBI?

growing really old looks a bit shit

until you consider the alternative.

well it depends what you mean by really old. Staying healthy and capable is the important bit, regardless of age. My FiL was perfectly fine up to about 90, but the Alzheimer’s is starting to kick in now.

A friend of mine retired to Cyprus (he’s 50% Greek Cypriot) at 57 a year before the pandemic, on the basis his pensions would be enough to allow them to live and eat out twice a week until they couldn’t.

Private swimming pool maintenence? could be a nice little earner.

It’s easy work in the winter, could easily do about 10 pools on a part time basis.

Hoover the pool, net any surface leafs,check and adjust chemicals, top water up. Only needs to be done once a week in winter, but twice a week in summer.

My pool guy charges me €90 a month in winter, double in summer. In winter it’s about 2 hours per pool per week, tops, as long as you keep on top of it.

If the pool is not getting regular heavy use it’s even easier as you don’t need to worry about copious amounts of sun tan oil in the water like you would get with a hotel pool.

That said, I thought it sounded a bit pricey, so I got some quotes in from some rival pool maintence companies, and they are all charging pretty much the same.

I’m 43 and there is no way I could do my job until 60 it would break me. I’ve given myself 7-10 years and then I’ll drop days or lesser role. This goal motivates me to keep going when it gets tough.

I am 55 and have no intentions of retiring yet. I have a low stress job that pays VERY well so giving up that money is a major life change.

Probably think about it around 62 and look to tie it in with a cheeky redundancy payout (which will be around 14 months of that very good salary). Before that I am thinking of going down to 4 days a week which will make a good difference.

I don’t think I would have enough to really do 7 days a week all year around so am happy working. Hobbies are great for weekends days off and I would like more time to cycle but I don’t need to do it every single day.

<growing really old looks a bit shit

until you consider the alternative.

well it depends what you mean by really old. Staying healthy and capable is the important bit, regardless of age. My FiL was perfectly fine up to about 90, but the Alzheimer’s is starting to kick in now.>

Yep, thats the bit of growing old that I meant. I’m doing my best to look after the parts of me that I can control, I’ve even managed to cut down on the booze, fingers crossed.

I don’t think I would have enough to really do 7 days a week all year around so am happy working. Hobbies are great for weekends days off and I would like more time to cycle but I don’t need to do it every single day.

I find that attitude rather sad.  Sure there are some dull days but by ‘eck I do not know how I ever had time to work.  Despite my “troubles” I have achieved so much in the lat two years from the long bike tour to a lot of work on my flat to a lot of visiting folk that I would not have had time for.

And in massive thread-creep; for all those thinking about retiring really early…

HMRC can nobble you for 55% if they regard your pension payment as unauthorised. Consider any schemes that sound too good to be true very carefully

Not read the whole thread, but does your work do the government pension scheme thing – I think (which tends to be wrong when it comes to money!), that they do the the workplace pensions scheme (which, I think the company puts in a smaller percentage to a pension for the employee)…if so, have you got that?
I’m of the opinion that it is never too late to start a pension with any amount that can be spared, so even starting anything now will be better than not.
However, I know absolutely nothing really about pensions other than they are good and we should all have one as we are living longer and the government are reducing the state pension stuff so might end up vanishing at some point.

Someone  mentioned pool cleaning for tourist area work, friend of mine does tourist accommodation inspectionspart time which is perfect for them. Like a few on this thread have implied they will be, they wasnt ready to wind down completely.  By the time I get to retirement (which will not be early sadly), its the sort of work Id like to do to both top up my meagre pension AND to provide routine, as there’s a very good chance my body wont tolerate my current hobbies by that age unfortunately.

Kerley – just checking, do get a VERY good salary?

Kerley – just checking, do get a VERY good salary

Mmm, yes. We need to know. Does it start with a 1 or a 2 ?

HMRC can nobble you for 55% if they regard your pension payment as unauthorised. Consider any schemes that sound too good to be true very carefully

Can you elaborate please?

Also @choppersquad . Bit disappointed you haven’t replied to my post, given how germane it is to your situation. Have you checked the pension payments that your employer was obliged by law to provide for the last 10 years?

Can you elaborate please?

The whole article is worth a glance…

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/pension-schemes-and-unauthorised-payments

Things I think I’ve learnt…

Martyn Lewis – the age you start your pension is the percentage of your wage that you will need to put in each year.

HALF your age.  HALF.  So start at 20y, 10% for life. 30y = 15%.