Accomodation costs

It’s very annoying that YHA haven’t really returned to their core mission of dorm rooms at cheap prices.

Scottish Youth Hostels are still a reasonable £22-£30 a night it seems.

OK, we’re going to have a ground floor double room, ensuite,shared kitchen/dining facilities, secure bike storage, in our house in around a years time in the Dumfries area.30 mins from Dabeatties/Mabie/Ae. We dont intend to market it much, just word of mouth from friends/family etc to get people to stay. (Oh, and some stealth advertising on STW!).
What would be a realistic price per night?
I think it has got to be £75 a night, is that about right?
It isnt going to be a business, well, it will be for the OH, but not a necessary one, we wont need it to be full, and, TBH, I rather it was empty most of the time anyway.

£75 equals £525pw. That would be a lot for what you are offering but as above, the changeover is the hard bit. Discount for longer rents (you want these)? High season and low season rates? I’d do some soft opening freebies/cheapies and work out how many hours a changeover will take. Work out how cheap you value your time (or your wife’s!) and factor that in as well as what the market will bear. That’s assuming you plan on doing the cleaning and laundry yourself. Are you lives flexible enough to do a changeover any (and every) day of the week or would you have to block out availability when you can’t service it?

Are you aware of the Scottish Short term lets licencing that is coming in in April? It’s firstly a bit of work and money getting all the info and certificates needed; secondly it’s money (ours will be £450). Thirdly – you might have an issue getting a licence with the shared facilities aspect if it’s shared with you, the owner (you need to give them floorplans as part of the application). Lastly – as a newbie who has not already been operating you need the licence in place before you can advertise or accept any guests. Rumour has it, it might take months from application to getting your licence. Then lasty lastly, reapplications once up and running will only be granted if you provably have a record of nights booked – varies between region but we’ll need 120 nights a year actually occupied for our licence. Part time hustles like you describe just ain’t going to get and keep a licence and it a £2.5K fine for operating without a valid licence.

It’s a shame that the new short term letting rules in Scotland will push out all the folk renting out their house or spare room part time. Unintended consequences no doubt but it will only push up prices and professional outfits will snap up a bigger share of the market.

The basic rules are a great idea (fire safety plans, safety checks and escape routes) but the additional beurocracy is totally unnecessary and just adds costs and work. For instance why do you need planning permission and a license in some areas. Surely just have a license and control it under one set of rules/one system.

Anyway one things for sure prices are only going one way, unfortunately.

Yeah that does sound like a nightmare!

I’ve got somewhere booked now, had to give up on the bike storage requirement but it’s a remote place in Kishorn so I can’t see there being any issues – I’ll chuck the bike in the boot if I’m worried.

I had a choice of places in the Peebles part of my stay with bike storage, but then that’s a much more popular area.

It could be worse.

I was rather reluctant to pay £300 at a Premier Inn or £450 for an AirBnB in Merseyside for a two night stay this summer for a family event.

However, a family member is pushing for Centreparcs at Sherwood.
£850 due to minimum stay.
Per family.
There’s three families.
Plus two great aunt’s and elderly father (who we’re expected to pay for, as they can’t afford it).
And we can only stay two nights due to work commitments.
😱😱😱

On my summer/autumn UK road trip this year I was in the south of the UK during holiday season and the north of the UK after holiday season. I was using AirBnB and it was much cheaper & plentiful in the south than north?

Are you aware of the Scottish Short term lets licencing that is coming in in April? It’s firstly a bit of work and money getting all the info and certificates needed; secondly it’s money (ours will be £450). Thirdly – you might have an issue getting a licence with the shared facilities aspect if it’s shared with you, the owner (you need to give them floorplans as part of the application)

Well, that’s that sideline finished before it even started then. We were thinking of one or 2 night stays, which is what we think people want. But reaching such bureaucracy levels is not going to happen for us, the safety aspect I can see, but the extra cash upfront, that means it’d have to be rented for 10 days or so just to cover admin costs makes the whole thing unsuitable for what we’d like.
Oh well, back to families and friends, which TBH, was what I was hoping for anyway.

£86 for one night in Liverpool this week, parking and breakfast included. That’s the Holiday Inn so not the Ritz, but good enough for one night on my own for work.

It’s a shame that the new short term letting rules in Scotland will push out all the folk renting out their house or spare room part time. Unintended consequences no doubt but it will only push up prices and professional outfits will snap up a bigger share of the market.

Counterpoint:

It’s a shame that short term lets push out folk who what to live somewhere and contribute to the local economy.

The trouble with holiday lets (especially ones only let for less than the ~120 days) is they’re also robbing all the local shops and businesses of an extra customer the other 8 months of the year.

On my summer/autumn UK road trip this year I was in the south of the UK during holiday season and the north of the UK after holiday season. I was using AirBnB and it was much cheaper & plentiful in the south than north?

Sounds about right tbh, the more supply there is, the less demand and so prices are cheaper. Everyone and their dog are renting out their spare room/shed/tent in the garden.

1 bed apartment with parking (attached to the house) in Cardrona was £86 a night for 4 nights, and a 1 bed Cabin on Loch Kishorn was £110 a night for 3 nights.

Difference being there’s an abundance of places to rent in the Tweed valley, and very few places that don’t require a full week, or that aren’t a boutique hotel for £300 a night in Torridon! 🤣

It’s not all bad. I stayed at the Barnsley Premier Inn midweek last month and it was quite reasonable.

The price, that is. The room smelled of damp and breakfast was in a Brewers Fayre next door.

Your quite right holiday houses do push up house prices and can push people out of the area due to lack of residential lets. However there is a balance. Holiday let’s accommodate the tourists who spend locally sustaining the local businesses. Without tourists a lot of jobs would be lost. However without workers a lot of these local businesses can’t operate. Not sure what the right balance is. In my area tourism is throughout the year with very few quiet spells maybe at most 8 weeks a year.

One answer would be a lot more local authority housing but that doesn’t have enough funding at the moment. Plenty of demand though.

The trouble with holiday lets (especially ones only let for less than the ~120 days) is they’re also robbing all the local shops and businesses of an extra customer the other 8 months of the year.

A hard balance to find – a vacationer could well have a slap up pub dinner every night, could be spending more in local businesses than a year round local. Or, they might be getting an Asda delivery and self catering.

What businesses tourists use, and how, and when, is a complex equation to manage.

It’s a shame that the new short term letting rules in Scotland will push out all the folk renting out their house or spare room part time

Why will it?  It won’t deter me at all.  Infact I think its a damn fine idea as it will push out all those who want to holiday let a substandard property.  Mine was going to be done to well above the standards required anyway.  Get rid of the crap places and the folk letting a good place will flourish.  Same as the argument for the minimum wage.  it keeps those who do it well protected from competition from those who cut corners.  some of the places I have seen are barely habitable

To me the 120 days is the barrier that is pretty high. If you are letting a room or a what was small granny flat 120 days a year I quite a high occupancy rate for something that may have seasonal demand.

The only thing I have to add to this is buy a good tent

Campsite are in an even worse situation. Loads take no tents, have minimum stays and have probably increased even more than hotels.

TJ from what I’ve read getting an STL license for a flat will be very difficult. Nothing to do with standards of accommodation it’s a reaction by the council’s following complaints about travellers disturbing neighbours. Currently it’s a blanket no from Glasgow and Edinburgh councils on flats with shared access applying for a license.

Get rid of the crap places and the folk letting a good place will flourish.

You have more faith in your local authority than I do in mine. They have basically said that most of the application is on good faith and that they would only verify the compliance of a property if a pattern of complaints emerged.

My plans remain very fluid.  It was my intent to let my flat for STL while away but ow its 50/50.  No noise issues with mine anyway.

I have no real issue with this as STL have created huge issues both on the supply of housing and in upsetting neighbours along with frankly dangerous condition STLs

A bunch of my pals hired a house for a weekend.  No fire alarms, no safety certs, dangerous gas appliences.  If it stops that than its all good

Your quite right holiday houses do push up house prices and can push people out of the area due to lack of residential lets. However there is a balance. Holiday let’s accommodate the tourists who spend locally sustaining the local businesses. Without tourists a lot of jobs would be lost. However without workers a lot of these local businesses can’t operate. Not sure what the right balance is. In my area tourism is throughout the year with very few quiet spells maybe at most 8 weeks a year.

Our old buy to let flat was rented over 11 years to (mainly) staff from the local timeshare, hotel and pub. We also had a council decorator and librarian. It was one of a shrinking number of privately rented accommodations in the area.

It too is now an AirBnB.

I don’t know where the balance is. But I do know that there needs to be some more capacity, at a balance of costs in many areas – both AirBnB and long term homes for rent.

Self catering in the UK has gone mad. We’ve just booked somewhere for a week in North Devon in the summer – 2 families so split the cost but still, without living in a hole for a week, its cost us £3k. Looking around for May half term – places are quoting a grand a week in Innerleithen in tiny cottage! Isle of Wight last May half term we paid £800 for the week in a really nice house – the same house, for the same week this year is £1100.

My plans remain very fluid. It was my intent to let my flat for STL while away but ow its 50/50. No noise issues with mine anyway.

I have no real issue with this as STL have created huge issues both on the supply of housing and in upsetting neighbours along with frankly dangerous condition STLs

A bunch of my pals hired a house for a weekend. No fire alarms, no safety certs, dangerous gas appliences. If it stops that than its all good

Like you, I’m broadly in agreement with what they are doing. The reputable agents were asking for most of the certificates, RAs and checks that are now being required anyway – but AirBnB and those just freestyling it were clearly cutting corners. The two big positives for me is that it now makes it easy for a local authority to have a quota of STL in an area. Apply later and the quota is taken and you won’t be getting a licence. This (hopefully) will allow a bit more control over having a healthy number of stls that can sustain their businesses and free up capacity for actual resistance too. The other thing I like is that you have to put up notices as part of the application process and there is a period for neighbours to lodge official objects – both for initial application and at renewal every 3 years. Of course it only works if the councils do their part too – but they really shouldn’t be able to claim manpower issue – they are charging some serious cash for the licences so if they don’t use that to employ enough folk to follow through on applications and objects its just pure greed.

But in general – even as a STL owner (maybe as I live here too and have a interest in the area thriving) there is a limit. Apparently the tipping point is 15% of housing stock being second homes or holiday lets which local services start to decline. Locally there is a good case study…..Boat of Garten is below that threshold and still thriving, Nethy Bridge has tipped over and is in decline.

Apparently the tipping point is 15% of housing stock being second homes or holiday lets which local services start to decline.

Elie and Earlsferry is 70% 2nd homes/holiday lets, other nearby villages not as bad but heading that way. I don’t see Fife council having any interest in attempting to control this. As I said above they have basically said no enforcement except for pattern of complaints. Who is checking that these planning notices are going up, I haven’t seen a single one. Nice new income stream for the council issuing these permits.

I’ve run my own accommodation business for 15 years and the present conditions are really tough.

Costs have increased across the board – energy, wages are +25% at least compared to 3 years ago, insurance and it’s almost impossible to recruit.

Given the circumstances we have changed our operating model massively this year. We are disallowing arrivals/departures on specific days and stipulating longer minimum stays in the high season. This means we can still have time off and complete maintenance tasks, laundry etc. We no longer offer individual beds in our bunkhouse – it’s not worth heating the building and staffing it for 1 or 2 people although we will review that for the main season. We have put prices up to compensate. We are not making any more profit.

There are lots of businesses here (West Highlands) really struggling. One hotel chain has amalgamated it’s guests from two large properties into one. They’ve reduced opening hours – the local Inn has decided to shut it’s doors at 6PM each night. Our other excellent pub will be closed midweek during January and probably into February for the first time ever. One cafe in the village has ceased trading and the local shop is very poorly stocked and open minimum hours.

Re staffing – part of the problem as mentioned above is the proliferation of holiday homes and something definitely needs done about it. Young families and other workers are finding it almost impossible to stay in the area. We were without a permanent doctor for at least a year and a half due to accommodation and a few other issues.

TS

I don’t think the new STL legislation will solve all these problems. I agree tightening up the rules for safety is a good thing. However there seems to be an assumption that limiting the number of holiday let licences will increase the number of residential lets. I’m not sure this will happen. It could just result in more holiday homes lying empty most of the year with owners only using them for a few weeks.

I do think it will have an effect on house prices. This will help some locals buy but the prices are probably already too high for most first time buyers.

It could just result in more holiday homes lying empty most of the year with owners only using them for a few weeks.

There is more to it than that.

It (hopefully) will squeeze those playing the system. There are plenty of second home owners that are claiming that their second home is a holiday home and evidencing that with a handful of rents a year. As a holiday let they can access the small business zero rate and pay no council tax. Additionally (unlike b2ls) holiday lets can still put mortgage interest against profits. Voila – free to run second home.

If they can’t get a licence they won’t be able to let it out a few weeks a year, won’t be able to offset their mortgage against the profits from those rents and will now be liable to council tax (at 150% the usual rate as it’s a second home). At the very least the 2nd home will now be putting money into the local authority coffers for local services etc.

sorry pressed send too soon…

Or they will have to go the other way (as they can’t afford to actually pay for their 2nd home) and rent it out for 120 days a year and at least it will be occupied more of the time with tourists putting money into the economy and provide employment at tourist attractions.

Well somewhat miraculously we found a glamping pod in Glen Nevis for the World Cup weekend, will be the basis of a nice wee 4 day break but in my wife’s eyes we’re paying £400 for a glorified shed.

I’m struggling to sell the idea of a week on Skye at this rate given it would potentially cost close to as much as an all inclusive break to a family resort on Mallorca with more or less guaranteed weather and no midgies 🙄

(haven’t fact checked costs recently, apply 10% margin for exaggeration…)

we usually have an Easter or Summer week in Northumberland, I have just had a look at the place we stayed in last summer, a nice, well appointed cottage. Last year it was £1350 for the week, this year it’s £1850,across a variety of dates.

Last year it was £1350 for the week, this year it’s £1850,across a variety of dates.

Is that through cottages.com or sykes or similar? A lot of (most?) owners sign into their ‘dynamic pricing’ structures. Basically the owner and the agent agree a base price and the agent can put it up or down by an agreed amount (ours is unlimited up and 10% max down) at will (or rather it’s autonomous with some sort of algorithm doing the jiggling) based on booking rates and availability in the area, web page impressions etc etc. It’s the 5th Jan – thoughts of the nation have turned to booking summer holidays and I suspect the algorithms will be in overdrive. Ours is showing at +50% across a lot weeks currently. Leave it a week or two and I suspect it’ll settle back down.

^^^ no, it’s with Stablewood Coastal cottages, so direct. Once we decide on dates I will mail them direct though and see if there is a deal to be had..

It’s the 5th Jan – thoughts of the nation have turned to booking summer holidays and I suspect the algorithms will be in overdrive.

Ah, this could explain some of the costs I am seeing.

I am grateful our summer cottage was booked direct, via a short email conversation, and that they are not paying any website commission and so offered us a modest discount to go direct. 👍

Another few interesting points above – some people do use dynamic pricing and this is a peak booking time so that will drive prices up just now.

Meant to say we add a not insignificant premium to bookings via b.com and a b and b to cover their costs and the hassle of dealing with them. Booking direct is normally cheaper.

Existing tax rules state you must rent out your holiday home 105 days a year to qualify as a short term let. So no need for another set of rules on that.

I think the license for holiday lets is a good thing. However I think the planning permission on top of that is not necessary. What we will end up with is less choice and higher prices when booking accommodation as lots of small operators come out of the sector and more professional organisations come in.

convert
Full Member

It could just result in more holiday homes lying empty most of the year with owners only using them for a few weeks.

There is more to it than that.

It (hopefully) will squeeze those playing the system. There are plenty of second home owners that are claiming that their second home is a holiday home and evidencing that with a handful of rents a year. As a holiday let they can access the small business zero rate and pay no council tax. Additionally (unlike b2ls) holiday lets can still put mortgage interest against profits. Voila – free to run second home.

If they can’t get a licence they won’t be able to let it out a few weeks a year, won’t be able to offset their mortgage against the profits from those rents and will now be liable to council tax (at 150% the usual rate as it’s a second home). At the very least the 2nd home will now be putting money into the local authority coffers for local services etc.”

Scottish Youth Hostels are still a reasonable £22-£30 a night it seems.

It could be the turnaround Hostelling Scotland need.  They’ve faced several decades where its become easier to find and cheaper to book budget accommodation to the extent it was sometimes no longer making sense you use a hostel.  They’ve closed a lot of hostels in the last 30 years too due to the economics of heating / repair etc.  I hope they can keep the portfolio they have, and it could even make sense to look for new areas to expand into.

Re staffing – part of the problem as mentioned above is the proliferation of holiday homes and something definitely needs done about it.

I noticed a lot of hospitality places complaining about issues with staffing last summer.  At the same time my teenage son was looking for summer work and could find few places which were offering the sort of tied accommodation that was common for students to use supporting hospitality in the 90’s.  The reason? seemed to be most of that had been turned into Air BnB’s.  Seemed like in some areas at least greed during the boom times may have undermined their own businesses?

I think there will be more of this shortly – the running and renovation costs meaning that business model doesn’t add up…

https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/we-have-been-derailed-by-scottish-government-legislation-306982/

Yes, I would imagine the main problem will be the electrical safety certificate. Even in places where it obviously isn’t an issue the person signing off the installation will be in full arse covering mode.

We have been derailed by Scottish Government legislation designed to deal with the Edinburgh Airbnb problem.

Yeah, it’s really not quite as simple as that.

We’ve recently had to reduce the price of the airbnb we rent out this year by 20% as we aren’t getting the bookings we once were… Generally our guests are couples, under 35, with a dog – and it’s the sort of place they would book a week or so in advance and stick on a credit card.

airbnb.com/h/thecabinmiserden

We are getting more bookings come in now, still the under 35 bracket, but it’s all last minute (next day), and even with the reduced price enquiries frequently ask for a discount.