chipsngravy – Member
Happiness is a simple thing: you are happy when you are not trying to be happy

This is also in line with the Chimp Paradox version; Acceptance. Accept who you are in life and what you have and not feeling pressured, for any reason to please others ambitions (those other than your inner circle).

I’d imagine a lot of people think about doing something different. I don’t think wanting to look at something different is necessarily a sign of depression. I like my job, I enjoy it but I don’t want to do it for the next 40 years.

France sounds good.

Well kryton, when I was a physics geek at uni all the navel gazing arty pseudo types seemed to get all the action, I assumed it was due to their emotional depth staring into Nietzsches abyss and reading Kafka, not just their lack of greasy hair and Red Dwarf T shirts….

Happiness is a simple thing: you are happy when you are not trying to be happy

Well that is a circular statement, isn’t it? Cos if you are happy by definition you are not going to be trying to be happy. Smug useless smart alecry pretending to be something useful shocker 😉

I’d imagine a lot of people think about doing something different. I don’t think wanting to look at something different is necessarily a sign of depression.

Nope nor do I and that’s not what I was saying.

labsey – you need to re-read grums comments on this page. He was certainly being more direct (and more honest) with the OP than I had attempted.

It seems to me that you are very competitive – in your career and in your riding. What’s wrong with just doing stuff because you want to/like to and not seeing it as some need to get “better” all the time?

The fact that you ask that question means you won’t understand the answer. Sometimes trying to be the fastest or best is the whole point. Who runs 100m for fun? Why play Monopoly at all if you don’t care about winning? For some, cycling is the same.

That’s right. Competition can get the adrenaline going, but it’s not good/sensible to live your whole life like that. There must be time for other things too. Being like that all of the time is like being an alcoholic – it takes more and more of it to have any effect.

you can’t always get what you want, but if you try sometimes, you’ll find, you get what you need.

just do what you enjoy as much as you can, try hard at things you love. have family if you can. try not to think too far ahead. life is good. there will always be something better or different that you could have done instead of what you are doing but never mind, smile and have a beer when things are crap

I get the whole “gaping hole” thing (fnarr, well it is friday)

A couple of years ago I thought the type of car/watch/bike/haircut/shoes/t-shirt, all that mattered. I sunk into an obsessive state of mind and into depression, lost my job, got into more debt than I could handle just trying to live day to day. Luckily I have a wife that saw that it would get better and helped rather than throwing a wobbly and leaving.

Now I still have the depression and obsessive traits, but all the things that I thought mattered started to not matter as much. I’m still in debt, but its getting better. I have a house, my wife still wants to be with me and I have a dog that thinks i’m the bees knees (when I’m willing to repeatadly throw things for, he has worse OCD than me)

As for the gaping hole? I got into a job that I actually enjoy doing rather than something I hate but do it for the cash. I have an interview this week to hopefully get higher up the ladder, and I’m self teaching coding to hopefully one day get into my dream job. It’s all about the balance, as soon as you try to extend too far outside your comfort zone that’s when unhappiness kicks in right royally.

Nice thread.

I think man has an inner restlessness. But I think dreams are good, probably best to leave some unrealised. I have come to feel that the essence of good living is loving. Love and kindnesses exchanged among family friends and neighbours. Everything else like stuff and dreams is an optional extra.

molgrips » Sometimes trying to be the fastest or best is the whole point.

That’s right. Competition can get the adrenaline going, but it’s not good/sensible to live your whole life like that. There must be time for other things too. Being like that all of the time is like being an alcoholic – it takes more and more of it to have any effect.

So how do you let yourself do something badly? How do you say to yourself “today I’m not going to make the effort”? if you’re going to do that, why bother at all? Take this concept of “recovery rides” that the roadies seem to like. I absolutely can’t get my head round it. How do you go out on a nice bike in all the gear and ride it slowly. To justify your ownership of the nice bike and the gear you *have* to ride it to both it, and your limits. Every time. If you’re not up to scratch, then you don’t deserve the privilege of owning the kit in the first place. (aka All The Gear, No Idea)

I think I’ve been trolled.

So how do you let yourself do something badly?

Because doing something at low intensity isn’t necessarily doing it badly – it only is if you see it like that (which isn’t healthy IMO).

absolutely can’t get my head round it. How do you go out on a nice bike in all the gear and ride it slowly. To justify your ownership of the nice bike and the gear you *have* to ride it to both it, and your limits. Every time. If you’re not up to scratch, then you don’t deserve the privilege of owning the kit in the first place. (aka All The Gear, No Idea)

Bloody hell are you serious? You don’t have to justify anything to anyone. Riding bikes is supposed to be fun.

Edit: Druidh – I think you may be right. Surely? Please…..?

I dont think that’s very fair Jon, tbh by that reasoning we’d all be on rigid bikes. I don’t any truly gets there bike to the limit every time. It’s a hobby-entertainment -a pleasurable pass time!

I do enjoy this all the gear no idea thing, if you have it enjoy it and aren’t a dick about owning it then no worries. TBH a lot if nice kit costs a fortune, people like nice things it makes them feel good, happy. The issue is when the possession becomes more than the pleasure of the use I think then it’s masking other things maybe unhappiness. As times gone in for me it’s less about ohhhh xtr ( I still like a but if flash stuff that’s new ie fresh goods, but I don’t want it) it’s all about the ride and trail the banter.

Or

Excellent Troll sir Bravo…..

Just for Jons benefit; there are well documented scientific athletic reasons for riding slowly on road bikes, perhaps google it (zone 2 training, or recovery riding).

Although like you in approach, I tried it last year and found it to be mentally restful, and pleasurable. It lengthens ride time of course, which with our new arrival means I will struggle to get regular z2 rides of any appreciable distance this year.

So how do you let yourself do something badly? How do you say to yourself “today I’m not going to make the effort”? if you’re going to do that, why bother at all? Take this concept of “recovery rides” that the roadies seem to like. I absolutely can’t get my head round it. How do you go out on a nice bike in all the gear and ride it slowly. To justify your ownership of the nice bike and the gear you *have* to ride it to both it, and your limits. Every time. If you’re not up to scratch, then you don’t deserve the privilege of owning the kit in the first place. (aka All The Gear, No Idea)

WHOA NELLY, many many things wrong with this

So how do you let yourself do something badly? How do you say to yourself “today I’m not going to make the effort”? if you’re going to do that, why bother at all? Take this concept of “recovery rides” that the roadies seem to like. I absolutely can’t get my head round it. How do you go out on a nice bike in all the gear and ride it slowly. To justify your ownership of the nice bike and the gear you *have* to ride it to both it, and your limits. Every time. If you’re not up to scratch, then you don’t deserve the privilege of owning the kit in the first place. (aka All The Gear, No Idea)

Yet here you are, thinking, badly. Funny old world, innit?

living in the moment with no thoughts of past or future is a big part of what adults crave isnt it?
we do it automatically when we are kids then crave it again once we forget how.
Drink ,drugs ,driving fast , reading a good book or riding a bike all keep us in the moment enjoying what we are doing for what it is and the feeling it brings .
Its when our thoughts get stuck in whats gone wrong in the past or whats bleak about the future that the drink ,drugs ,bike riding etc stop giving us the in the moment feeling that playing as a kid gave us.
or have i just been reading that middle section in the paper too much?

I know what you mean muddy man. Watching my 3 and a half year old go about his day is intriguing. No worries or problems, never worried what his hair / image is, not worried about being too fat / thin, just fitting in by being who he is and not adjusting to stereo type, not trying to impress anyone. Just a happy go lucky world.

It’s a pity that society will teach him to worry and be burdened with that later in life.

Drink ,drugs ,driving fast , reading a good book or riding a bike all keep us in the moment enjoying what we are doing for what it is and the feeling it brings .
Its when our thoughts get stuck in whats gone wrong in the past or whats bleak about the future that the drink ,drugs ,bike riding etc stop giving us the in the moment feeling that playing as a kid gave us.

This is a rather more eloquent version on my earlier comment.

It’s occurred to me farly regularly that my definition of “enjoyment” is doing something that stops me being able to think

To go back up a few posts – Loads of people telling me I’m wrong. Nobody telling me *why* I’m wrong.

Here’s another example or 2.
If I don’t do my job well, then the best result is that the company I work for have to spend time and money sorting it out (and that does happen far too often for my comfort). If I get it badly wrong, somebody could get hurt or die. If I get it REALLY badly wrong, it’ll be worldwide news (I jest ye not).

If I’m driving a car and not concentrating fully, I can kill someone. If I’m walking down the pavement not concentrating, I can step out into the road and get run over.

So you *do* concentrate. You do do things right, first time, everytime, because if you don’t, your sloppiness can put other people at risk. And if you’re going to that much effort into your job, why wouldn’t you do the same (or more) for something that you do for your own pleasure, that actually matters to you?

tbh by that reasoning we’d all be on rigid bikes

Yup. Would it be such a bad thing? The only real difference is that the bike industry would be broke and therefore not able to spend a fortune marketing “the next big thing” at us. All those “overbiked” threads on the other page? Same thing isn’t it?

(as a related annecdote, I remember the first club ride I did, maybe 15 years ago. I’d never actually seen full sus or Ti bikes outside of a shop or disc brakes at all. Yet most of the riders seemed to have them. I was terrified that I wouldn’t be able to cope – these riders must be shIthot to justify their bikes, right? 3 hours later I realised that whilst they were all nice people, 80%+ of them couldn’t ride for toffee.)

My mid life crisis started when I was about 20.

20 years on and it’s still happening

I think a mid life crisis is just your remaining ambition trying to get out via your old chap.

So you *do* concentrate. You do do things right, first time, everytime, because if you don’t, your sloppiness can put other people at risk. And if you’re going to that much effort into your job, why wouldn’t you do the same (or more) for something that you do for your own pleasure, that actually matters to you?

Concentrating isn’t necessarily a massive effort for some of us.

To go back up a few posts – Loads of people telling me I’m wrong. Nobody telling me *why* I’m wrong.

I think people have told you, but TBH if you want to argue and try and justify the way you see things that’s fine, but you don’t seem to be very happy about it.

There’s nothing wrong with wanting to improve and push yourself, but if that takes over to the detriment of enjoying yourself it becomes a problem. Don’t you see that it would be good to sometimes be able to enjoy a gentle walk/bike ride – take the time to take in the sights and sounds of nature, relax etc?

If that scares you because it makes you think too much about the empty void in your soul, can you really not see there might be something wrong with the way your thought processes are working?

I’m really not trying to be harsh about this, I understand where you are coming from because I have tendencies the same way. I got ill with CFS/ME a few years ago and was off my bike for about a year. I steadily got back into it but every time there was even a hint of feeling better I wanted to go up Hellvelyn or whatever, because what was the point of just going for a 1/2 hour bimble? I got really angry because a year earlier I was doing the Mega, and now sometimes I struggled to walk to the shops and back without having to have a lie down afterwards.

I still feel a bit that way TBH but I don’t think it’s a good way to be.

Do you enjoy doing anything if you’re not trying to be better – what about reading a book or watching a film, or going to a gig? There’s no way of being good/improving at that is there – but still fun sometimes, no?

To go back up a few posts – Loads of people telling me I’m wrong. Nobody telling me *why* I’m wrong.

I suspect because they can’t determine if you’re trolling or not. 😀

I suspect because they can’t determine if you’re trolling or not.

From his last post it seems not, but perhaps he is just continuing the expert trolling. :shrug:

If I read a thriller and haven’t guessed the ending by the first chapter, I repeatedly bash myself around the head with it till I bleed once I’ve got to the end of the book and realised I’m incorrect. That teaches me to concentrate a bit harder.

There’s nothing wrong with wanting to improve and push yourself, but if that takes over to the detriment of enjoying yourself it becomes a problem. Don’t you see that it would be good to sometimes be able to enjoy a gentle walk/bike ride – take the time to take in the sights and sounds of nature, relax etc?

Jon this is the point I was making earlier. I’m like you on a bike, and it took evidential data convincing me that I was improving my athleticism by going slower, which would reap rewards during summer, to make me ride slower in the winter. I enjoyed the less stressfull nature of the ride and the heads up more relaxed position which allowed me to appreciate the countryside/ squirrels etc. That said, I still approach a ride unable to accept not looking at my Garmin to see if i’ve dipped below an (in my mind) unreasonable average.

The second thing was my second child, born last week. I’ve on paternity / holiday until 31st, and can sneal an odd ride when Junior No1 is at nursery and Mrs K is happy at home. Because of the lifestyle change / interuption, I’ve been unable to compete in the October BikeMagic / STW Total KM’s challenges, so backed off and bimbled around the woods (still going to manage 300k this month). For gods sake, I even stopped and looked at the London eye on the sunlit horizon the other day!

Sometimes you have to slow down to realise whats around you.

As this thread progress’s, its contributors (for which I’m grateful) are slowly convincing me that this statement (in italics) is important. Perhaps its perfectly acceptable not to be Steve Jobs, or Bradley Wiggins, or Stephen Hawking, but perhaps being Joe average isn’t so bad after all. Lets face it, we are not all equipped to be those people which is why they are unique, so why strive to perhaps be dissapointed?

I recon what we have here is a christian western world problem .
What I mean is christians are always searching for heaven which is basically a perfect place with no problems , if you see what I mean !?
Where as your buddhist (as delboy would say) is after enlightenment , or a way to rise above his problems
much of our way of thinking comes from christian based thinking/teaching in this country doesnt it ? ? ?

I found this thread interesting. I started meditation ten years or so ago and it has had a profound effect on my life and my attitude to it. I have met many other people who were drawn to meditation because they had the feeling that the OP described. They had everything they thought would make them happy: family, career, house, friends etc.. but still something was missing. Many have found that that ‘something’ can’t really be filled with anything material but the inner spiritual life which in turn helps improve hesth and peace of mind aswell as the material. In this day and age, not many spend time trying to nurture this side of life. The meditation I tried was taught at a meditation centre in Somerset if anyone is interested. Click here]Click here[/url]

I’ve found meditation useful too, though I’m only a beginner really – it’s definitely something I’d like to get more into though.

BTW, went for a 10-11 mile pootle in the sun on my road bike today , stopped at a country pub and sat outside for a half of ale and a snack, then rode back as the sun started to set, stopping off at the Crook O’ Lune to look at the evening light over Ingleborough.

It was ace – I honestly reckon if you can’t enjoy something like that there’s something wrong. Not meant to sound smug or critical. 🙂

It was ace – I honestly reckon if you can’t enjoy something like that there’s something wrong. Not meant to sound smug or critical.

Now you see, I went out on my road bike, did 70k without stopping, and got disappointed that I was 1.4kmph slower than last week (well, it was wet). Do you know what, I am riding hard on Tuesday but have time for a ride on Wednesday too but should really be recovering from the Tuesday ride. I might try to replicate Grums ride over lunchtime, to chill out like.

Re meditation, thats an interesting point. I used to practice meditation after a flip out anxiety attack n 2001. Maybe I should start again.

Being in touch with your inner child, that for me is something that i’ve never lost, so when people tell me to grow up– i take it as a complement–

i suppose not being to bothered my material trappings, is also a liberating state to be in, just need to persuade my wife not to covet another pair of boots……

I’ve just done something along these lines.

On Friday I handed my notice in at work (I hated my job). My wife loves her job and just about earns enough to keep us both afloat. The misery in both of our lives was my hatred for my job and therefore the need to buy crap to fill the void that my Monday to Friday life left me with. I dragged the both of us down.

So after long discussions we decided I would resign, be a ‘house husband’ for a while, actively simplify our lives and try and bring some joy back into both of our existences. On the surface it sounds selfish I realise. Me just dossing at home whilst the wife goes and pays the bills but my intention is to do all I can to ensure we are both content.

Lots of needless crap will be sold and we will both be having some fun again.

i suppose not being to bothered my material trappings, is also a liberating state to be in, just need to persuade my wife not to covet another pair of boots……

This 100%. My foray into this mindset begins today.

fervouredimage – Member

On Friday I handed my notice in at work (I hated my job). My wife loves her job and just about earns enough to keep us both afloat. The misery in both of our lives was my hatred for my job and therefore the need to buy crap to fill the void that my Monday to Friday life left me with. I dragged the both of us down.
Good on you. There’s something to be said for what you’ve done.

Despite not having expensive/posh tastes and having always lived within my means, I’ll admit that I do quite like having disposable income, so I’m not sure how I’d find doing such a thing.

For me work is a means to an end. I actually enjoy my job on occasions, but there’s no passion there. I work because I earn money which allows me to pay my mortgage and bills and take holidays to other parts of the world that are exciting to me.

I work a fair amount (I think) and I’m away from home every so often and don’t get to see my wife nearly enough. I’ve read books like The 4 Hour Work Week and I appreciate that by taking more time off now I would enjoy my life more and be able to do more than working my self into the ground to my sixties and being too ill/tired/dead to enjoy life.

My goal is to strike a balance in between. I’m hoping to see more of the world through work and extend holidays from work trips to reduce costs. I’m on track to pay off my mortgage by my mid-thirties and ensure that the mortgage is manageable. I try not to have any debt other than the mortgage and by things out right. All of these things mean that I will be in a position to take a back seat from a relatively early age and take on a non-stress flexible hours job. I will have more time for friends, family and for myself which will ultimately make me happier.

That’s the hope anyway. I don’t think there is a life less ordinary. I think the majority of us have the same ties, whether it be paying a mortgage, rent, fuel, food etc. Not many people life a self-sustaining lifestyle anymore and happiness is normally found in the simpler things whilst still living in a modern world.

On a planet with a population of over 7 billion, against the backdro pof thousands of years of human history, don’t most things people achieve in their lives just blend into the ‘ordinary’?

I’ll admit that I do quite like having disposable income, so I’m not sure how I’d find doing such a thing.

There is an element of fear there I’ll admit but the feeling of the weight on my shoulders that has been there for so many years being lifted is immense. I always believed that money and subsequently ‘stuff’ was the route to happiness but it was always fleeting. It’s taken me a long time to realise but I absolutely believe that this course of action is right for me and my wife.

It’s a big shift for us both but I hope that not being so wrapped up in my own selfish misery will enable me to be a better person and a much better husband.