Viewing 40 posts - 321 through 360 (of 1,456 total)
  • 9/11 documentary
  • 5plusn8
    Free Member

    Ned – two identical buildings fell in the same manner. Their design trumped any other concept. They fell that way because of how they were designed and built, and their size. I am not sure anyone was ever tasked to predict how they would fill, and before this, if asked, they may not have been able to predict this method of collapse. Hindisght is wonderful.

    Anyway to replicate the towers being hit by planes and not disturb the occupants much whilst setting it up has gotta be difficult.
    They would need to set charges to cot a number of beams and break some concrete.
    It will take a long time to set up and be hard to predict.

    TurnerGuy
    Free Member

    And WTC 7 housed offices for the CIA and the US Secret Service, think it was the only WTC with them in.

    And the SEC, to cover up the records of any insider dealing they might have found that might be connected to the event…

    jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    Let’s go back to this for a moment…

    [video]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDfm3NroVG8[/video]

    Frankly, it seems utterly ridiculous~ ‘A 30 year conspiracy’

    But suspending disbelief for a moment, lets scale it down a bit… rather than 30 years, let’s try and work out how long it would take to rig the building by covert means…

    Say rather than overt demolition experts, you had covert operatives like removals firms (an orange 5 packed with materials wouldn’t hold much… a filing cabinet however), or residential art students, who were in the towers overnight.

    Of course, this is conjecture, but for the tower to fall into it’s own envelope, when tilting like this is hard to explain

    jonnyboi
    Full Member

    Out of interest, what would have been an acceptable way for the building to collapse that would signify aircraft impact and out of control fuel enhanced fire?

    should it have toppled over like a tree? if so, why?

    5plusn8
    Free Member

    but for the tower to fall into it’s own envelope

    They didnt, they fell straight down but the debris was spread out.

    when tilting like this is hard to explain

    No it isnt, its mass was huge, it was only going one way.

    jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    So why didn’t it follow the path of least resistance?

    amedias
    Free Member

    And the SEC, to cover up the records of any insider dealing they might have found that might be connected to the event…

    Why would they have been so sloppy as to house records there that presumably could have been exposed at any time prior to the event anyway, doubly stupid to just not put the records there if you knew what was going to happen in advance…

    So why didn’t it follow the path of least resistance?

    What exactly do you think the path of least resistance should have been?

    massive mass + gravity = downwards

    You’d need a stupendously massive force in another direction to deviate that massive mass from anythign other than ‘downwards’

    5plusn8
    Free Member

    500,000,000 kgs is being pulled by the acceleration due to gravity. It would take something equal to the attraction of gravity to make it go sideways.
    It tipped because one side failed first, thats where the damage was, the tipping made the other side fail and then gravity took over.

    jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    Have you ever played jenga?

    stumpy01
    Full Member

    jivehoneyjive – Member

    So why didn’t it follow the path of least resistance?

    Ley lines & magnets. Obvz…..

    TurnerGuy
    Free Member

    Some people say WTC 7 was ‘pulled’ but the fire department don’t do that :

    [video]https://youtu.be/nQrpLp-X0ws[/video]

    sbob
    Free Member

    chamley – Member

    I’m not convinced many people have seen a tower block collapse without it being a controlled demolition. You’d be showing them a video of a building falling down. “yes, that looks just like a building falling down”

    I think you’ve cracked it.
    It’s a fundamental lack of imagination that “these people” share. Flat Earthers can’t see the Earth is round so don’t believe it.

    5plusn8
    Free Member

    jivehoneyjive – Member
    So why didn’t it follow the path of least resistance?

    What does this even mean?
    If I fire a bullet at a melon, do you agree that the air around the melon and past it has a lower resistance to objects passing through it than the melon?
    Will the bullet arrive at the melon and get its calculator out and decide that conspiracy fysics says I should follow the path of least resistance, I am going to go around the melon.
    No the vector is into the melon, and in I shall go.
    The bullet has such energy that the melon just gets destroyed.
    This is like the twin towers.

    jimjam
    Free Member

    Whathaveisaidnow – Member

    keep WT7 in mind.

    The only ever hi-rise building to ever collapse at near free fall speed, straight down, from minor damage and office fires.

    Keep in mind yourself that WTC7 had 91,000 litres of diesel in the basement. 91,000 litres of diesel. Probably good stuff for creating more than an office fire. In addition to the diesel tanks in the basement it had pumps and fuel lines throughout the first nine floors.

    Under normal circumstances you’d imagine fire fighters might have been able to do something to prevent the building burning for five or six hours but maybe, just maybe they were busy on September 11th.

    jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    whitestone
    Free Member

    In your first shot the CofG of the upper section is obviously still well within the tower’s footprint. Because of the angle of the shot I can’t tell from the second shot where the CofG would be.

    Looking at video of the south tower falling the upper section does lean and increases to lean as the tower collapses. In the later stages of the collapse it’s hard to discern what’s happening to the upper section but it looks as if with about 30 floors left to drop it finally falls outside the footprint of the tower.

    5plusn8
    Free Member

    jhj, substitute the jenga for blocks made of the thinnest glass you can imagine.

    ghostlymachine
    Free Member

    Have you ever played jenga?

    Do you understand the physics of Jenga and how they apply to the twin towers?

    (Rhetorical question, of course you don’t)

    jonnyboi
    Full Member

    Have you ever played jenga?

    that’s your science? entirely solid bits of wood. how do the people walk about inside your crazy jenga building?

    whitestone
    Free Member

    What’s a Jenga tower got to do with the WTC towers? Entirely different construction techniques as has been pointed out many times.

    jonnyboi
    Full Member

    just to show how the towers did not collapse neatly within their own footprint.

    outofbreath
    Free Member

    If you’d showed the video of it collapsing to everyone on earth a day before the event, every single one of them would have said that is a controlled demolition.

    In which case why did the demolition guys rig it to collapse in a way that is obviously demolition? Wouldn’t they have rigged it to collapse in a way that is not obviously demolition? (Which I’m assuming you consider to be half a million tons of tower falling sideways like a tree?)

    5plusn8
    Free Member

    there is also the scaling fallacy.
    Look at how mass varies with volume. Its cubed..
    That’s why trees only get to a certain height, humans can only get so big before our bones can’t take our own weight, and 110 story buildings are very hard to build.

    jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    Well, being as jenga (and the dominoes used earlier) aren’t the most stable of structures, there’s probably minimal comparison given the twin towers were designed to withstand aircraft impacts exceeding the forces encountered

    slowoldman
    Full Member

    Oh well since you provide that evidence jamba you must be right. After all it WTC was built exactly like jenga wasn’t it?

    jimjam
    Free Member

    I wonder whether Jivehoneyjive believes the earth is round or flat… ❓

    jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    I’d hope it had far more structural integrity than a jenga tower…

    jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    Earth is round, flat earthers are nucking futz

    amedias
    Free Member

    Have you ever played jenga?

    yes, and its entirely nothing like a actual tower block 🙄

    Are you suggesting that you think the building should have ‘toppled’ over?

    The only force acting on the building is gravity, so the only direction is down. Toppling is still falling ‘down’ but with a constrained point of rotation, of which there was none and could not be one in those towers. Any such point would have to have resisted the horizontal component of the reaction force about the pivot, this wouldn’t have been possible. And all of that relies on the upper half being a solid coherent/rigid object, which it wasn’t.

    That building was only ever goign to collapse downwards, tehre was no external force in any other direction to influence it’s path, and insufficient lateral strength to have anything but an inconsequential level of resistance.

    Toppling could only happen if there were a constrained pivot about which the rigid structure could rotate, There wasn’t so it didn’t.

    jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    That’s a lot of words, none of which explain this:

    So why didn’t it follow the path of least resistance?

    5lab
    Full Member
    Whathaveisaidnow
    Free Member

    Under normal circumstances you’d imagine fire fighters might have been able to do something to prevent the building burning for five or six hours but maybe, just maybe they were busy on September 11th.

    Yet they had enough time to evaluate the structure, to foretell of its collapse…. there is plenty of video prior to collapse of people walking around in there,….this building was not seriously on fire…

    curiously a CIA guy was walking around in there, just making sure no one was in there, just before they blew it up.

    5plusn8
    Free Member

    757 mtow 200,000kg
    wtc 450,000,000kg
    450,000,000/200,000 = 2250. So one plane is a 2250th of the mass of the towers.

    Mans fist 1kg. Them big jenga blocks, maybe 10kg? Totally comparable.

    Equivalent is 10/2250 = 4 grams. flick a sugar cube at your big jenga and see what happens.

    jonnyboi
    Full Member

    That’s a lot of words, none of which explain this:

    So why didn’t it follow the path of least resistance?

    It did, that has been explained many times.

    here’s another explanation.

    Nearly every large building has a redundant design that allows for loss of one primary structural member, such as a column. However, when multiple members fail, the shifting loads eventually overstress the adjacent members and the collapse occurs like a row of dominoes falling down.

    The perimeter tube design of the WTC was highly redundant. It survived the loss of several exterior columns due to aircraft impact, but the ensuing fire led to other steel failures. Many structural engineers believe that the weak points—the limiting factors on design allowables—were the angle clips that held the floor joists between the columns on the perimeter wall and the core structure (see Figure 5). With a 700 Pa floor design allowable, each floor should have been able to support approximately 1,300 t beyond its own weight. The total weight of each tower was about 500,000 t.

    As the joists on one or two of the most heavily burned floors gave way and the outer box columns began to bow outward, the floors above them also fell. The floor below (with its 1,300 t design capacity) could not support the roughly 45,000 t of ten floors (or more) above crashing down on these angle clips. This started the domino effect that caused the buildings to collapse within ten seconds, hitting bottom with an estimated speed of 200 km per hour. If it had been free fall, with no restraint, the collapse would have only taken eight seconds and would have impacted at 300 km/h.1 It has been suggested that it was fortunate that the WTC did not tip over onto other buildings surrounding the area. There are several points that should be made. First, the building is not solid; it is 95 percent air and, hence, can implode onto itself. Second, there is no lateral load, even the impact of a speeding aircraft, which is sufficient to move the center of gravity one hundred feet to the side such that it is not within the base footprint of the structure. Third, given the near free-fall collapse, there was insufficient time for portions to attain significant lateral velocity. To summarize all of these points, a 500,000 t structure has too much inertia to fall in any direction other than nearly straight down.

    homework question: which bits do you disagree with and why? show reasoning

    5plusn8
    Free Member

    So why didn’t it follow the path of least resistance?

    Why should it?

    whitestone
    Free Member

    +1 Jonnyboi

    amedias
    Free Member

    That’s a lot of words, none of which explain this:

    So why didn’t it follow the path of least resistance?[/quote]

    They do explain it, but for you, in fewer words ‘It did’, because the path it followed was in the direction of the force acting on it and there were no forces significant enough to deviate it.

    What path exactly do you think it should have taken?

    Why don’t you tell us what you think should have happened and we’ll discuss it, instead of you just saying “yeah, but” to everything.

    5plusn8
    Free Member

    yeah plus 500,000,000 jonnyboi, super succinct

    jivehoneyjive
    Free Member

    Why should it?

    That’s how stuff works…

    5plusn8
    Free Member

    Explain? How do things follow the path of least resistance? What path were you expecting?

    If I fire a bullet at a melon, do you agree that the air around the melon and past it has a lower resistance to objects passing through it than the melon?
    Will the bullet arrive at the melon and get its calculator out and decide that conspiracy fysics says I should follow the path of least resistance, I am going to go around the melon.
    No the vector is into the melon, and in I shall go.
    The bullet has such energy that the melon just gets destroyed.

Viewing 40 posts - 321 through 360 (of 1,456 total)

The topic ‘9/11 documentary’ is closed to new replies.

RAFFLE ENDS FRIDAY 8PM