Home Forums Bike Forum 4 Pot Rear 2 pot Front

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  • 4 Pot Rear 2 pot Front
  • chestercopperpot
    Free Member

    I will be running a 200 front and 180 rear rotor with new Shimano SLX brakes.

    I know conventional wisdom (from motorbikes) is to have a more powerful front brake. As I run a smaller rear rotor and most MTB riders (myself included) hammer the rear brake, it seems to me 4 pot on the rear would make more sense.

    My plan is to swap the calipers over so it’s configured this way. Anyone else do this, what’s the verdict?

    chiefgrooveguru
    Full Member

    4 pot tends to require more maintenance and it’s usually the rear brake that gets dirtier, exacerbating that. 4 pot is easier to modulate (despite the extra power) so less likely to lock up.

    thols2
    Full Member

    Generally you don’t need power on the rear brake, it’ll just lock up, you need heat dissipation because the rear tends to get dragged down long descents. The front brake is the one you rely on when you really need to stop so I would stick with the conventional wisdom and put the 4-pots on the front and 2-pots on the back (I have two bikes set up that way). If you do find that you are overheating the rear, a larger rotor will probably help more than a 4-pot caliper.

    Still, there’s no harm in trying it to see what it’s like. It’s your bike, set it up to suit what you do.

    chestercopperpot
    Free Member

    usually the rear brake that gets dirtier

    Yeah that’s true. It always seems to be the rears where one piston seizes. So potentially 2 more pistons to seize up/drag.

    chestercopperpot
    Free Member

    If you do find that you are overheating the rear, a larger rotor will probably help more than a 4-pot caliper

    The calliper and pads are one great big heat sink. Surely the larger surface area of the 4 pot caliper and pads has got to help. As I understand it the sole purpose of the longer banjo (more metal) is for increased heat dissipation, however marginal it may be!

    People IME tend to cook the rear brake. Therefore it seems logical to me that a 4 pot rear makes more sense on a mountain bike and as you say there’s no harm in trying it anyway.

    Northwind
    Full Member

    Try it, why not? You might not even find they perform like you expect, 2 vs 4 pot in mountain bikes is largely about marketing and largely about the fact that some of the market leaders really aren’t very good at making brakes.

    1
    thols2
    Full Member

    The calliper and pads are one great big heat sink.

    The rotor is the main heat sink. Brakes generate enough heat the they would literally melt if you rode in a vacuum – they are cooled by air. To cool the pads, you need to allow air to flow between the pad and the rotor. This is why continually dragging the brake is so bad – the pads are continually in contact with the rotor and don’t have time to cool off. If you brake hard then ease off the brakes for a second or two, it gives the pads time to cool off and you’ll get less heat transferred into the caliper. Yes, I know that on some descents that’s not possible, especially if you are racing. In that case a larger rotor and 4-pot calipers make sense, but for most people, most of the time, a 2-pot on the rear with a 180 mm rotor should be perfectly fine.

    chestercopperpot
    Free Member

    You might not even find they perform like you expect, 2 vs 4 pot in mountain bikes is largely about marketing and largely about the fact that some of the market leaders really aren’t very good at making brakes

    Well I’m about to find out as I’ve only had 2 pots before. Not had any problems with Shimano calipers leaking but master cylinder piston seals have leaked after about 2-3 years on the most used brake (the rear) on both my bikes.

    Had I known Shimano brakes were shit in the long term I’d have got Hayes Dominions, but it’s too late for that now! I’m fully tied in and have spare brand new calipers and pads ready to go when necessary. I haven’t needed the spare calipers in roughly six and five years of use. New levers/seals yes!

    1
    dyna-ti
    Full Member

    Setting oneself up for the uncontrollable skid of death.

    Kramer
    Free Member

    I’ve never tried it.

    A friend had his brakes set up like that. I wouldn’t trust him to say whether they were bad like that, because if he did he’d get an award at our annual dinner for being a plum.

    Most braking and control is done with the front brake, so it makes sense to have the more powerful brake there, which is why we (mostly) run bigger rotors on the front.

    Conventional technique is not to drag the brake. Getting used to choosing braking zones and then getting off the brakes between them has made a massive difference to my technique.

    1
    tjagain
    Full Member

    you can alternate front and rear as well to reduce the problems from dragging

    LAT
    Full Member

    https://enduro-mtb.com/en/rotor-size-myth/

    this site ran an article on why you should use a bigger rotor at the back.

    it says mostly what has been mentioned above. mainly, big rotors dissipate heat better and dragging brakes on descents to control speed

    intheborders
    Free Member

    I ran my Cotic with 4-pot front and 2-pot rear, both on 203 discs – works well.

    I’ve now an eeb and that’s got 4-pots both ends with a 223 front and 203 rear – works well

    2
    tall_martin
    Full Member

    If you have two different calipers you need to carry two sets of spare pads.

    People are still carrying spare pads right?

    Scienceofficer
    Free Member

    In the early days of teeny tiny power meters, say (c. 10 years ago?) SRAM did a decent piece of research into mtb braking. It’s on the internet somewhere, although I don’t care to find it right now.

    They stuck power meters on Fr and Rr discs to see whats going on.

    Points for summary were that most riders, even the pros, use their rear brakes for speed moderation more than they realise and that the outcome for better control of this was to have modulation – They fell short of stating a 4 pot would be optimal, I guess because individual brake characteristics cloud the point, but they did say bigger discs for modulation, and if you’re chasing subtlety of control, a 4 pot on the back seems to make sense to me, irrespective of its other heatsinking benefits.

    Read of that what you will. I happily rode 4 pot front, 2 pot rear, with a smaller disc on the rear for a number of years and actually increased disc size and went 4 pot due to ‘in extremis’ heat management concerns, but I do think there is an improvement in subtle control, which is useful if you’re they type of rider that can use it.

    Whether that is the larger disc or the four pot I couldn’t tell you because I did them both at the same time.

    1
    nickc
    Full Member

    Use the biggest brakes you think you can get away with. 

    zerocool
    Full Member

    It’ll be fine. You probably won’t notice any difference. Most people tend to drag their rear brake so it might even be beneficial.

    chestercopperpot
    Free Member

    Just thought I’d report back.

    Well as predicted the difference isn’t dramatic but I’ve found no downsides so will be sticking with it. Seems a bit better on steep slippy off-piste stuff where rear brake bias is needed for control but for everything else I can’t tell the difference!

    thols2
    Full Member

     it seems to me 4 pot on the rear would make more sense.

    No, the more powerful brake on the front makes more sense, that’s why everyone does it that way. If you need more power on the back, run 4 pots front and rear. If you’re a chronic brake dragger, run bit rotors and 4-pot calipers front and rear.

    pembo6
    Free Member

    I’ve seen an article (dont remember where) that suggested 200 front rotor and 220 rear rotor would be the best setup for ‘most’ people. For similar reasons that chestercopperpot is suggesting. 200 is plenty for the front (for ‘most riders) and 220 allows better heat dissapatoin for dragging brakes down long downhill trails.

    That kind of makes sense. But I won’t be trying it. 200 rotors and 4 pistons front/rear for me.

    spooky_b329
    Full Member

    I ended up with a 2 front and 4 pot rear set after Chiggle sent me the wrong item.  I agreed to keep it after they sent me pack of bars/olives so I could swap them round.  Regret it now as I need spare pads for about 9 types of brake instead of 8, and when bikepacking long trips things like extra sets of pads adds up (especially when a single set fits into your puncture kit)  I don’t notice any difference with the 4 pot!

    tall_martin
    Full Member

    I’ve found no downsides so will be sticking with it

    Sounds a great reason to stick with it

    Do you carry both sets of brake pads?

    mrlebowski
    Free Member

    4 pot F & 2 pot R on my xc bike. I’ve set up my R so it bites first to scrub a bit of speed before the F bites. Then when the stronger F bites the bike is more controllable. Reason for me is I find R wheel skids easier to control then F one’s. I’m sure someone will be along soon to say that’s a stupid thing to do but it works for me….

    jamesoz
    Full Member

    People carry spare pads?

    matt_outandabout
    Full Member

    So, in my head reading the comments, I need to bin my 180mm and matching 4-pot Deores.

    Edit: I just read that Enduro article!

    I need 200mm front on a 4-pot organic (less cooling, heat up quicker, but more ultimate power and initial bite) and 220mm rear on a 2 pot sintered (better cooling for about the same power, less fade when pads get hot, more controllable)?

    chestercopperpot
    Free Member

    The first time I was relatively satisfied (nothings perfect) with MTB brakes was my last set of XT M8000 (moved to another bike) matched to rotors I’m using in this setup.

    IME a 200mm front rotor with Shimano servowave is pretty grabby (even with 2 pots) and I wouldn’t want it anymore grabby hence I didn’t go for 220.

    I think there is some merit in this setup for Shimano users who have bikes with 200 F and 180 R (pretty common) who like steep, rooty, wet trails, where aggressive front braking would have you washout or OTB. It’s the best setup I’ve run so far!

    Just to be clear I am not dismissing the fact changing rotors to larger one’s makes the biggest difference, that wasn’t my goal. I’m after better brake control in the steeps where aggressive front braking isn’t an option. With Shimano brakes and the biggest rotors it comes with a penalty of an even more on/off feel.

    chestercopperpot
    Free Member

    If you have two different calipers you need to carry two sets of spare pads.

    People are still carrying spare pads right?

    Well there is that.

    Thanks for the reminder I forgot to buy some.

    chestercopperpot
    Free Member

    I’ve been lucky with Shimano brakes thus far but on tonight’s ride the front 2 pot was honking like good-en (it’s dry) so it looks like I might have a micro leak cursed set FFS….

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