2nd Hand eGolf ?

Hi Folks,

Thinking of buying a used eGolf as a run around with the odd 100mile trip to the in-laws.  Maybe about 3 years old with around 60k on the clock.

I see the batteries have a 180km/8 year warranty so that should cover me for 5 years.

Does anyone have any idea on what else I should be worried about or investigate further?

Following with interest as one ticks most of the boxes for me too.

I see the batteries have a 180km/8 year warranty so that should cover me for 5 years.

What happens after that?
I think one issue electric cars may have is that “people” (inc me) are wary of the cost of replacing a battery – as it seems to be huge!  An 8 year warranty doesn’t seem that long and I’m not sure I’d take the risk on buying a car with only a couple of years left on the warranty.  I think this fact will impact the prices of used electric cars much more than IC vehicles.

(Yes’ I know that IC engines go wrong also, but individual parts of those can be fixed at a lower cost…… AFAIK if your electric car battery goes wrong the only real option is to replace it.)

You could be right @sharkbait. I don’t have a crystal ball. But my guess is that the opposite will be true and EVs will hold their price better than ICE cars in the long run. Yes, replacing the batter may be prohibitively expensive, but the battery in the car will still be worth a fair bit as demand (for things like power banks) increases.

I think Tesla already claim that they re-purpose every battery taken from their cars and as we (hopefully) transition away from fossil fuels, demand for battery storage will only increase. Of course some technology may come along that allows for super cheap battery storage for home/commercial use, but unless/until that happens the lithium based batteries in an EV are still going to be worth a fair bit, unlike the components of an ICE car that are generally considered end-of-life after ten years.

unlike the components of an ICE car that are generally considered end-of-life after ten years.

I think that’s a quite a generalisation and mostly wrong!

In my experience the ICE tends to be the bit that lasts the longest nowadays!
We currently have 4 cars (one being sold) and 3 of them are 10+ years old with two of them having done >115k miles – the suspension/brake components are the bits I need to have fixed and have not had to have any engine repairs done so far.
I fully expect my car to do 200k miles …… once they’ve figured out why it seems to think that it should be applying the brakes constantly!

but unless/until that happens the lithium based batteries in an EV are still going to be worth a fair bit

Apparently the major factor in electric car pricing is the cost of the battery and that is due to fall as technology changes – I would have thought that existing batteries will also fall in value because of this.
If they don’t then electric cars will continue to be too expensive for the vast majority of people (as shown in the continued fall in sales of 100% electric cars and the increase in manufacturers concentration on hybrids).

Theres a huge dump of chinese EVs coming at some point (the Chinese government subsidise the manufacture & we subsidise the purchse)

Chinese EVs seem to be more innovative, have better batteries (thanks to huge government subsidies) less focus on hybrids for them

Biden has just put 100% tariff on chinese EVs, EU to announce theirs soon

Already plans for BYD to build a plant in Mexico to get round the tariffs

Ive no idea where the UK government is on this, our EV manufacturing situation seems to be very vulnerable and the failure to get battery plants here means its possibly too late

Net result could be a lot of cheap EVs coming soon (but our car industry is going to be wiped out)

I think EVs will hold their value better- what happens when petrol stations start shutting down because everyone charges their car at home, all of a sudden and ICE car becomes a millstone

To answer the OP question, my dad has had one from new in 2020. He’s had no problems with it at all and the battery is still at 100% health he told me recently.

I think EVs will hold their value better- what happens when petrol stations start shutting down because everyone charges their car at home, all of a sudden and ICE car becomes a millstone

Maybe right on the used values (who knows!) but I think you’ll see petrol stations around for a pretty long time yet.

I think EVs will hold their value better- what happens when petrol stations start shutting down because everyone charges their car at home, all of a sudden and ICE car becomes a millstone

That’s very unlikely in the OP’s timeframe.

Personally I’d treat it as dead-money. Buy it, run it for as long as the warranty lasts and sell it for what you can get – which may be not a lot.

Or just buy a new electric car on a lease.

I have a 2019 egolf. Had it from new.

No problems whatsoever & battery is at 100%.

Just make sure the range of the car is suitable for your needs.

“what happens when petrol stations start shutting down because everyone charges their car at home, all of a sudden and ICE car becomes a millstone”

We don’t need petrol stations in every town. I filled my car in Cambridge last week. Drove to Gt Yarmouth. Then back to Glasgow. 550 miles. Still 200 range showing on computer. The longest I have done is 718 miles in a day on one tank.

In any case the average ICE car is scrapped at 14 years old. Still being sold for another decade. There will be enough petrol stations for the next quarter of a century anyway.

@flyingootatoses what sort of real world range are you getting and does motor way driving have a big impact?

The prices for these cars seem keen, but 180mile wltp range is a bit on the low side. I need to comfortably do a 120 mile round trip that was 50% motorway, 50% twisty a roads

The prices for these cars seem keen,

Gis a clue, how much?

I think that’s quite a long trip for an e-Golf. I would (and did) get an Ioniq Electric 38kWh.  Premium SE model is very well specced, perhaps not as plush as a Golf but more range for the money and heat pump as standard.  Ioniqs actually get or even exceed the official range number, and don’t drop much in winter.   It’s 150 miles to my folks and back, never once had to recharge in the Ioniq.

Re batteries – they are lasting forever these days (especially on the Ioniqs), degradation isn’t really a thing on a more modern car.

Apparently the major factor in electric car pricing is the cost of the battery and that is due to fall as technology changes – I would have thought that existing batteries will also fall in value because of this.

This is an interesting graph, if you extrapolate backwards then the battery in a P90D would be over half a million dollars in 1991!

We’re at a point where MG will sell you an EV with more range than even the most macho of petrol heads bladders could manage for Mondeo money.  The prices might come down a bit more and the range might go up a bit more (and range also improves longevity by putting less stress on the battery in normal use)  but I think we’re past the “early adopter tax” phase.

And for all the battery handwringing, there’s an equal amount of turbo/wet-belt/DPF/DMF/injector seal/add-blue related winging.  Car’s are hideously expensive, if you don’t like it then ride a bike.

And what people forget is that as long as the battery still has a reasonable range on it then it’s going to save the next owner ~£1000/year in petrol and servicing (assuming some degree of cheap overnight rates or solar panels). So it’s unlikely that electric cars will ever reach traditional “bangernomics” price points,

Our neighbour had one of the first. Watched the battery deteriorate in real time. They’ve since had an ID3 and now an ID4, so it didn’t put them off VW, just the eGolf. Based on their experience, I would not.

@slackboy

Winter range is around 125 miles, summer can get to 160 – 180.

The cold makes a big difference, the way it’s driven and having the heating on.

On the motorway as long as you don’t thrash it and stay a steady speed say 60-65 then you’ll get the range. On A roads put the regen braking on and you’ll recover some miles.

You should be able to do the 120 mile round trip.

Mine doesn’t have a heat pump fitted so if the one you’re looking at has one then the range will be better.

Worse case scenario is you plug it into a charger for 20 minutes to top it up.

If you’re near Chorley, lancs then you’re welcome to have a look.

@ihn

Gis a clue, how much?

About £10-12k for a 2020 model

Can’t talk about golfs, but do have a 10 year old Nissan Leaf with 80+ of the battery capacity still there.  If the car thinks the battery is still in decent shape, then there’s no reason for it to suddenly collapse in capacity.

But I’d agree with getting a Hyundai instead.

There are a lot more expensive parts to fail on a ICE car, and the failure is a lot less predictable than a battery

@molgrips was thinking about a Ioniq Electric actually. Will have another gander.

An 8 year warranty doesn’t seem that long and I’m not sure I’d take the risk on buying a car with only a couple of years left on the warranty. I think this fact will impact the prices of used electric cars much more than IC vehicles.

I suppose, but three years ago that warranty was probably quite a confidence statement from VW given people would be hearing horror stories about first gen Leaf batteries dying on their arses.

Plus it’s only a warranty, not a cliff edge guaranteed failure point (although this is VW s who knows) you don’t get many IC cars that have any parts still in warranty at that point anyway, but they’ll not fail ten minutes after the warranty expires a decade old ICE car will generally carry on fine but if something expensive does let go you’re on your own.

I guess the thing is that after 8 years a golf will have done a fair chunk of it’s depreciating right? And if you’re buying a 3 year old car of any sort intending to keep it for another 5 years and then get a substantial chunk of your money back on trade-in/sale you’re likely to be disappointed. If you want 5 years of (leccy) motoring with the one major component concern covered by a warranty it’s not a bad deal, after 5 years you’ll have a new choice to make, but that’s a future you problem 🙂

Odds are that the OP will drive the eGolf for a few years and then trade it in for their next motor at/just before the battery warranty ends(?), and who knows where affordable EVs will be come ~2028ish? Is it a huge gamble in that context?

I know one person with an eGolf, He’s had it since just before Covid so ~4 years now(?) and currently has no plans to chop it in yet, but on sunny days he still drives his 3L Z4 with the roof down.

There are a lot more expensive parts to fail on a ICE car

Really?

It seems that an eGolf replacement battery is > £20k!!

Really?

It seems that an eGolf replacement battery is > £20k!!

And it’s pretty much the only part that could* go wrong. By the end of the warranty it’ll be in the ~£5k bracket where any major ICE related issues could write it off.  Doesn’t matter if it’s a £20k battery or a £5k engine rebuild/replacement if the car’s only worth £5k

My Berlingo was an uneconomical repair because the clutch pedal failed. There’s no clutch on an electric car.

*but probably won’t

Apparently the major factor in electric car pricing is the cost of the battery and that is due to fall as technology changes

I suspect the main cost is recouping existing R&D and funding new, and the prices in the UK reflect the fact there is a tax incentive for electric company cars.  Manufacturers are able to develop nice EVs and whack a high price on them and lease companies will buy them.  Eventually they’ll have to start chasing the lower end of the new market. As soon as someone releases a small cheap EV they’ll all follow.

It seems that an eGolf replacement battery is > £20k!!

No-one buys them though. With older EVs you either buy a refurb battery or have your own one refurbed.  Batteries don’t fail, cells do – and there are loads of them available and companies ready to do the work.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/364567673173

And it’s pretty much the only part that could* go wrong

I wouldn’t go that far. The motors have a bearing at each end, there have been some motor bearing failures but they can be fixed using the same tools and skills as gearbox repairs.  However they have loads of control units just like ICEs, and brakes as well.

Eventually they’ll have to start chasing the lower end of the new market. As soon as someone releases a small cheap EV they’ll all follow.

we havent really seen the impact of the chinese glut of EVs yet

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/economy/article/2024/05/04/belgium-s-ports-drowning-under-glut-of-chinese-electric-cars-some-are-parked-here-for-a-year-sometimes-a-year-and-a-half_6670373_19.html

but its coming very soon

https://www.theguardian.com/business/article/2024/may/14/vauxhall-peugeot-stellantis-chinese-ev-europe-leapmotor-biden

the EU is likely to impose provisional tariffs in July (tho not as high as s Bidens 100%)  and a final ruling in November- what will happen to the UK car market if the government doesnt will be interesting, prices could come down a lot (although I imagine UK manufactuers will be screaming for tariffs!)

I had a new one for 2 yr, range is more 140 miles summer to struggling to get to 100 miles winter, also go through front tyre’s for fun with being front wheel drive and all that torque (wheelspin every time you set off)

we havent really seen the impact of the chinese glut of EVs yet

Quite possibly, however even if Chinese cars are banned we would still benefit from their huge economies of scale in battery production.  EVs are selling like hot cakes in China itself, they don’t really need us to buy the cars.

EVs are selling like hot cakes in China itself,

The chinese manufacturers are producing more than they can sell domestically, which is why teh uSA & other are panicking about them being dumped on them & trashing domestic auto supply

‘It Is Desolate’: China’s Glut of Unused Car Factories
Manufacturers like BYD, Tesla and Li Auto are cutting prices to move their electric cars.

@molgrips was thinking about a Ioniq Electric actually. Will have another gander.

Absolutely cracking car – especially in Premium SE trim; the only problem is that rapid charging is pretty slow.  But this is mitigated by the fact that the range is really reliable and consistent, the range indicator is accurate so when it says 180 miles, you get 180 miles (or a bit more).

Consider a Corsa e as another option. They are pretty cheap 2nd hand. Faster charging than an ioniq and a decent sized battery. It’ll go forever if your journey is downhill!

Those Ioniqs do look like great value second hand

Mine was £12k, it’s got leather, lane following on motorways, heated rear seats, heated and cooled front seats (which is amazing) and along with remote heating/cooling you can also lock the doors remotely when it reminds you you’ve left it unlocked, unlike the Leaf. Satnav also has live rapid charger info and routing on the satnav which the Leaf didn’t have.

But the consistent range and minimal drop in winter is probably my favourite part, along with stellar efficiency. Also room for four adults.

I took a test drive in a s/h electric Corsa, 20k miles, £12300. Well impressed. Ended up with a s/h e2008 for £15000, similar mileage, but a bit more space in the back seats if used more regularly.

It is the wife’s car, but I absolutely love it.

Is it radar cruise @molgrips?

Yeah, it maintains distance from the car in front, and steers for you to follow the lane you’re in. And unlike some of these systems it works really well. It also works when crawling in traffic which is brilliant. That’s available on the Premium (which is actually the base spec), the auto steering is on Premium SE. You have to keep a hand or even a finger on the wheel though.

Very impressive spec. What’s the catch with them? I thought the electric kona was good value, but the ioniq is a few £k cheaper. Is it the same car underneath?

I thought the original eGolf was known for being absolutely awful. Underpowered and no range

Very impressive spec. What’s the catch with them?

The catch is the slow rapid charging. In reality it’s about 45-50 mins 20-80%. At that price range you aren’t getting really fast charging from anything but other cars are still quicker. This is offset slightly by the fact you go 20% further for each kWh than most cars. However, the older 28kWh model can charge a fair bit quicker.

The Kona is mostly the same car, however there are some small differences – I’m not sure they all come with heat pumps. But there is a 64kWh version of the Kona which charges more quickly. They cost more though and are obviously less efficient.

Other downside is a lot of beeps and bongs whilst setting off or manoeuvring, but not really whilst driving unless there’s a good reason e.g. you’re going to crash. The blind spot warning is a bit loud if you indicate whilst someone’s there. As with any car the lane warning may not work well on a narrow B road but there’s a physical button to turn it on and off.