think it’s going to £190.. My EVs are going from zero to £190. Which is annoying..

DrP

important to remember this was announced under the previous government nearly 18months ago.

Must suck to be going from 0-190 – but something has to pay for all the missed fuel tax revenue.

my cars going from 0-20 but still uses fossil fuel

Our EV weighs 1300kg and will pay 190, whilst our diesel weighing 1600kg carries on paying 35.

Away from home charging, diesel is also cheaper on fuel.

18months ago.

Must suck to be going from 0-190

Even my van accelerates faster than that! It’s topped out way before 190 mind

Away from home charging, diesel is also cheaper on fuel.

while that maybe so- it’s going into PE pockets not the gov. The gov wants their slice of pie back

@winston True, but anything at the moment about pay-per-mile is RW scaremongering without any basis in fact.

It probably is inevitable but the big difficulty is how do we apply it to discourage short urban car journeys?

I guess you charge people more per mile in urban areas or for short journeys in general

Problem is a policy like this has to go hand in hand with a boost in active travel funding so people actually have an alternative – but we all know this simply won’t happen and it will just result in the people who can least afford it paying more.

whats the difference between duty and tax ?

or is this one of those things where heckles have been raised about cyclists not paying “road”tax and using VED as the alternative naming and now we are getting in a twist about the tax part when in fact it was the implications that it was a tax on the road ?

you could run pay-per-mile on EVs as part of the MOT procedure – I imagine most can’t be clocked these days. Be a bit of an eye opener if you bought one with 1 months MOT left which had been used as a taxi for the past year though :)

Whereas VED doesn’t cover a fraction of the social cost of car ownership and penalises those who try to act responsibly and drive less miles. It disincentivises use of other forms of transport which in turn helps their decline.

The naming thing is historic, stuff originally collected by Customs and Excise is often called duty.  But Customs and Excise got rolled into Inland Revenue to form Revenue and Customs.  This may have been to do with Customs and Excise being shambolic and naughty.

More use specific taxes tend to be branded duty eg booze tax, airport tax, insurance premium tax, arse scratching stick tax and so on.  None of them are hypothecated,  that is the money is earmarked for a specific use, so tax is an appropriate way to describe them whatever the branding.

Of course the specific taxes can be adjusted to achieve specific social objectives more easily than the more general ones, for example public health  the environment etc, with a dose of wealth redistribution thrown in if you wish.

If it looks like a tax and quacks like a tax…

Be interested to know how they’d bring in road pricing/pay by mile as I’m pretty sure odometers* are even more easily tricked than they used to be & to tax after the event would be tricky.

If weight was a factor of ved then my motorbikes should be weigh cheaper per annum…

* Dodgy sensor means one of my bikes speedo & odometer rarely works.

Be interested to know how they’d bring in road pricing/pay by mile as I’m pretty sure odometers* are even more easily tricked than they used to be & to tax after the event would be tricky.

I think both could be wrapped into your MOT. Want to drive the car another year? Its £50 for the inspection and 2p per mile you’ve covered since the last check. Would raise broadly the same amount (assuming an average milage of 10k miles) as today.

sure, when the car gets binned you lose the last year’s income (as no MOT on being scrapped), and you could maybe clock the thing, but tbh there’s much more money to be made in improved residuals (which could be ~£10k more on a low milage car vs a high milage car at 5 years old), than there is in dodging £200/year in tax – I suspect anyone who wants to clock their cars is already doing it (and in the extreme minority, like red diesel users)

whatyadoinsucka

Free Member

we all know how well smart metres in houses have been, bring in a smart metre for cars ??

its not a anti cyclist ‘don’t pay road tax’ discussion’

i clearly stated “Vehicle Tax” in the header :0)

True.. That’s why I think the only practical way would be to integrate EVs into the current VED/tax model in a fair and balanced way.

EVs are only going to get more popular so to not charge them anything will leave a huge black hole in tax revenue that would have to be clawed back by some other means of general taxation… Which would then penalize everyone, including people who may not even own a car.. so that would cause an uproar, and round and round we go.

Duty is generally a fixed amount, whereas tax is generally a percentage.

It’s basically just semantics for the purpose of this discussion I think..

Duty is generally a fixed amount, whereas tax is generally a percentage.

so it really is

 one of those things where heckles have been raised about cyclists not paying “road”tax and using VED as the alternative naming and now we are getting in a twist about the tax part when in fact it was the implications that it was a tax on the road ?

It probably is inevitable but the big difficulty is how do we apply it to discourage short urban car journeys?

Very easily if it’s done by a properly tracked pay per mile system. Just have a minimum charge per journey.

they can often update the display but for most cars the true milage is a quick pull on the odbc port away.

Not seen the Orly meme for a while but I feel it’s apt here

Not only that I have 4 different mfg knock off dealer level diagnostics and all have the milage in a different ECU and this needs different tools and skills required  to find the milage.

Your multi mfg OBD2 protocol reader won’t be seeing your milage -i have 5 or 6 of those also from over the years and cars

And given the mots in ability to see a deleted emissions control…..I don’t hold out much hope on your dream.

And add to that  2 of my current cars don’t even have OBD2