180mm hardtail anyone?

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  • 180mm hardtail anyone?
  • sweaman2
    Member

    Somehow I just knew this would be a Chromag

    Premier Icon fd3chris
    Subscriber

    I’m trying to justify the price and the fact my skill level is nowhere near what a 180mm ht would demand.

    ta11pau1
    Member

    And a 62 degree HA, 526mm reach & 482mm seat tube length on the XL? Sagged with a 180mm fork that’s got to be over 540mm reach?

    Crazy fools!!

    bsims
    Member

    Coming soon…to a trail centre near you😀

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Subscriber

    That’s one sick! looking bike. Though I assume it’ll turn up if you order one.

    mattyfez
    Member

    The Harley Chopper of Mtb?

    Surley it would impede steering and the suspension would only work properly downhill?

    There’s slack and there’s slack.

    Premier Icon mboy
    Subscriber

    Surley it would impede steering and the suspension would only work properly downhill?

    If ANY bike ever epitomised the overly cliched phrase “winch and plummet”… This is it!

    kayla1
    Member

    Oh my word, no. My eyes!

    Premier Icon cokie
    Subscriber

    That’s one sick! looking bike. Though I assume it’ll turn up if you order one.

    I came here to post exactly that 😀

    trumpton
    Member

    sounds like too much for a hardtail. Surely unless your really skilled the back end will give out way before the full travel up front is used.

    ta11pau1
    Member

    Surely unless your really skilled the back end will give out way before the full travel up front is used.

    Giggity.

    Premier Icon nedrapier
    Subscriber

    It’s probably more balanced than a 140mm/150mm 26in hardtail.

    Premier Icon BillOddie
    Subscriber

    I think you have to remember where Chromag are based (Whistler) and the trails they and their local customers ride which are mainly very steep, very rough natural trails in and around Whistler, Pemberton and Squamish.

    I think they recognise that this bike is pretty “out there” too and seeing as they are basically made to order locally there is zero risk.

    What I find quite interesting is how their Geo has progressed over a relatively short amount of time. Just looking at the 29ers and completely ignoring the 26/650B bikes.

    Mk 1 Rootdown (bike I have) 2014/2015 Taiwan
    HA = 67.5
    SA = 73
    R = 436

    Rootdown BA 2016 Taiwan
    HA = 66
    SA = 75
    R = 473

    Rootdown Current Model Taiwan
    HA = 64
    SA = 75
    R = 478

    Surface Current Model BC
    HA = 66
    SA = 75
    R = 479

    Primer Current Model BC
    HA = 64
    SA = 76
    R = 478

    Doctahowk Current Model BC
    HA = 62
    SA = 77
    R = 526

    They have also started to increase the rear centre on the Doctahawk for larger sizes which people have started asking for.

    Premier Icon fd3chris
    Subscriber

    I’m not the best at bike geo but the main numbers aren’t too different from Pole cycles Taival. Trouble is I haven’t wanted a frame so much for years and especially one I have no need for…… But I still want it. Anyone want a 2019 Chameleon?!

    Premier Icon BillOddie
    Subscriber

    The Taival is probably nearer the Primer or Rootdown than the Doctohawk.

    I can’t think of another bike with a sub-63 deg head angle that is this long. It makes the (bordering on vapourware) Sick bikes look short.

    Premier Icon fd3chris
    Subscriber

    I’d love a review of it but can’t find one yet. It takes a 160mm too so if its anything like the new crop of superlong bikes it might make a good trail bike.

    Premier Icon BillOddie
    Subscriber

    Of the Doctahawk? No, it’s only just been launched.
    You might be waiting a while.

    Primer review
    https://nsmb.com/articles/first-look-chromag-primer/
    https://nsmb.com/articles/chromag-primer-review/

    Surface Review
    https://www.bikemag.com/gear/mountain-bikes/review-chromag-surface/

    Have a look on the Pinkbike and NSMB forums, plenty of builds and opinions on there.

    Premier Icon pigyn
    Subscriber

    Well while people are looking at Chromag, a cheeky wee derail..

    How much interest would there be to get easy access to these in the UK? Both the TW made ones and the BC. I am sitting looking at a price list for importing some, but the RRP would be pretty high once we get them over.

    If there was enough interest we could take the plunge and get stock in the UK, but I am a bit hesitant when the RRP on the TW frames could be pushing £775+..

    But then again they look lovely and are super nice folk to boot.

    Talk me out of/into it..

    Premier Icon fd3chris
    Subscriber

    Shorelines used to import, I had lots of chromag stuff from him in the past but he seems to have stopped. I’m not sure now but maybe it’s a personal import only. The Doctahawk cones in around £1300 minus tax and shipping. So not a cheap option at all. I was going to email Chromag and see what is possible. And thanks BillOddie for the links 👍

    Premier Icon pigyn
    Subscriber

    We at pedals have the opportunity to bring in as many or as little as we like, I would like to hold some in stock for the UK if the interest was there. Happy to order you a doc hawk and get some rootdowns at the same time :p

    Can also get the clothing as well, which may help offset the cost of the frames

    wl
    Member

    Nah, not keen. I had a hardtail with 170mm Shermans on once (and it was designed around them – they weren’t a crazy upgrade) and it’s just too much – the geometry changes too radically with all that travel at the front and none at the back. Got a P7 now with 140mm and it’s way, way nicer to ride on every kind of terrain, and personally I think that’s partly because of its fork travel sweet spot.

    trumpton
    Member

    way too much bike for the UK.

    The wheels are in different postcodes! Wouldn’t mind trying one for the novelty factor, although I reckon it would be a real handful on some of the tight trails I ride.

    Premier Icon Poopscoop
    Subscriber

    Completely irrelevant in so many ways…. but that is minging.

    Not exactly a new concept; Clifcat Tankass, Evil Imperial, Balfa Minuteman and the like trod that ground long ago. It’ll be a very niche market for a very small subset of riders.

    It’s nice to see people still produce these stupid bikes even if they are mostly impractical.

    Premier Icon BillOddie
    Subscriber

    Not exactly a new concept; Clifcat Tankass, Evil Imperial, Balfa Minuteman and the like trod that ground long ago. It’ll be a very niche market for a very small subset of riders.

    It’s nice to see people still produce these stupid bikes even if they are mostly impractical.

    New concept – well the bikes you mention (the exception of the Evil) occasionally had long forks fitted to them but most didn’t.
    But a even just a google image search shows how different the bikes are in terms of Geo.

    The Chromag will climb pretty well all things considered. The bikes you mention all climbed horribly with “normal” forks and it only got worse as the fork length increased.

    Descending, Chromag will be a hoot it’s long and slack. The bikes you mentioned were still steep with long forks and got REALLY steep as the fork moved through the travel. They are also super short.

    Completely agree that they are not for everyone though.

    ossify
    Member

    That two-tone purple/black colour scheme is gorgeous.

    Very neat bike!
    Fun for certain trails.

    Other route to this type of extreme hardtail fun:

    Dartmoor Hornet 2019 frame for around 300 GBP (you get them cheaper as well)
    Suntour Durolux downhill fork, 170 mm or so, sells right now for around 550 GBP

    Long and slack, extremely rugged, bit heavy … but fun

    Premier Icon chakaping
    Subscriber

    Sorry for being a geometry bore, but the short chainstays with the mega-long front end would make it handle a bit weird, for me, before we even get to the monster fork.

    Had a Kona with similar front/rear balance and it was an unnerving ride to say the least.

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Subscriber

    Not exactly a new concept; Clifcat Tankass, Evil Imperial, Balfa Minuteman and the like trod that ground long ago.

    Yes, yes they did.

    Went well, I beli… Oh, no, wait…

    Premier Icon BillOddie
    Subscriber

    Sorry for being a geometry bore, but the short chainstays with the mega-long front end would make it handle a bit weird, for me, before we even get to the monster fork.

    Had a Kona with similar front/rear balance and it was an unnerving ride to say the least.

    That has been picked up on by the likes of the NSMB forum members too. I think I’d like to see +10mm on the CS length across the sizes. I bet if you spoke to Chromag they’d make you one.

    New concept – well the bikes you mention (the exception of the Evil) occasionally had long forks fitted to them but most didn’t.
    But a even just a google image search shows how different the bikes are in terms of Geo.

    I mentioned them in the context of capability only. All three were rated for dual crown forks which were the only way of getting above 130mm before 2004 Z150’s. Geometry is a whole other argument and something I never brought up. They were designed to run long travel forks, so is the Cromag. There endeth the similarities.

    FWIW I dread to think what the ones that ran rigid forks felt like to ride, less freeride, more extreme bicycle polo!

    Went well, I beli… Oh, no, wait…

    Hmm, not sure what your point is? Are you implying by nothing other than innuendo that an Imperial is incapable of running 180mm forks by showing me a picture of one with 300mm Super Monster T’s that we are supposed to assume snapped it?

    I’d say the horrific chainstay angle just on it’s own would suggest that is well beyond the design brief, however if we compare it a fork thats actually in the ballpark (190mm) you can see it looks much better.

    better

    Premier Icon tomhoward
    Subscriber

    More to not read too much into the designs of yesteryear when comparing them to now. Another example would be 3 inch tires from a similar time period to the imperial. Would you want to ride 3 inch gazzaloddis now?

    There’s a pic of another imperial with super monsters on google (green one) that I don’t think snapped. So that one up there wasn’t a one off nutcase build. I’m sure I read at the time that the fork was on evils radar when they designed it too.

    Would you want to ride 3 inch gazzaloddis now?

    Anyone with any sense never rode them at the time! Although saying that look at the trend for big width tyres now. See also fatbikes.

    I’m not directly comparing them, my point was only ever that ultra-long travel hardtails have been done and like then will only appeal to a subset of a niche. Common theme does seem to be completely wack geometry, either super steep leading to really short wheelbase like a Tankass or super slack with long wheelbase like the Doctahawk.

    scottfitz
    Member

    Sick bikes look short.

    The XL doctahawk is 10mm shorter that My L Sick Gnarcissist (I’m currently running 150mm forks).

    The doctahawk looks perfect for whistler laps.

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