12 speed with an 11 speed mech?

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This topic has 12 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 5 years ago by teethgrinder.

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12 speed with an 11 speed mech?
marksnook
Free Member

I’m fairly sure I’m in the wrong so if anyone can explain it that would be great!
So you can get a 12 speed shimano freehub cassette. Does said 12 speed cassette take up the same amount of space as the 11 speed on the same freehub body? If yes then being that an 11 speed mech moves that distance will it also work on the 12 speed cassette with a 12 speed shifter? I can’t get my head around it!

Posted 5 years ago

fooman
Full Member

Shimano freehubs are the same width for 9/10/11/12 speed cassette.
Mechs must be matched to shifter and cassette in terms of gear numbers (ie a 12 speed shifter with a 12 speed mech with a 12 speed cassette) as they all work with different pull ratios and sprocket capacity. Sometimes you can get away with using x speed mech on y speed cassette but it’s unfortunately rare.

Posted 5 years ago

greyspoke
Free Member

If a 12 speed shifter moved 11/12 as much cable per shift as an 11 speed shifter, then the the former would work with a 12 cog cassette and a mech that worked with the latter.

Posted 5 years ago

steve_b77
Free Member

Shimano freehubs are the same width for 9/10/11/12 speed cassette.

No they’re not, Shimano 9, 10 and 11 all fit on the same Shimano pattern free hub for MTB. Road is different as the 11 speed cassettes are a fraction wider. The 12 speed Shimano requires a completely different Shimano Micro-spline 12 speed free hub, also available from DT Swiss.

11 Speed won’t work with 12 speed, I fully expect the gaps between the cassette rings to be different. Just like 10 speed road won’t work with 11 speed cassettes properly

Posted 5 years ago

transition1
Free Member

Yes you can run a 9/10/11 & 12 speed cassette on a shimano free hub, a Sunrace 12 speed will fit. XTR 12 speed is completely different setup!
I have also successfully run a Sunrace 12 speed rear derailleur with a SRAM 11 speed shifter & 11 speed cassette & also a 12 speed SRAM shifter with Sunrace 12 speed cassette

Posted 5 years ago

greyspoke
Free Member

@transition1 – I am interested in mixing Sunrace and SRAM – It appears that Shimano 12 speed cassettes are a slightly different width (cog1 – to – cog 12) overall from SRAM ones. Any idea whether the Sunrace 12 speed cassette is SRAM width or Shimano width, or something else again?

Posted 5 years ago

transition1
Free Member

I also have a set of wheels with an XD eagle cassette which I swap between & works ok with the Sunrace derailleur & XX1 shifter

Posted 5 years ago

greyspoke
Free Member

Thanks tranners. Sounds like it is worth having a go then.

Posted 5 years ago

fooman
Full Member

No they’re not, Shimano 9, 10 and 11 all fit on the same Shimano pattern free hub for MTB

SRAM NX Eagle and Sunrace MZ90 cassettes are both 12 speed and fit

Posted 5 years ago

marksnook
Free Member

I know it won’t work with an 11 speed shifter. But if you had a 12 speed shifter the actuations would be right. I’m wondering if the 11 speed mech would have enough movement to reach all gears. Or do 12 speed mechs have a wider range of movement?

Posted 5 years ago

phil5556
Full Member

Or do 12 speed mechs have a wider range of movement?

They shouldn’t do as the cassettes are the same overall depth.

Top to bottom would be the same distance, just slightly smaller steps in between.

Logically it seems like it should work as long as the cage is long enough for the range.

No idea in practice if it would actually work though.

Posted 5 years ago

greyspoke
Free Member

12 speed cassettes are almost the same width as 11 speed, so range of movement shouldn’t be an issue. The gaps between cogs is the main difference.

Although from some data about cog spacing on the internet, it appears that both SRAM and Shimano 11 speed cassettes are 39mm wide (cog tip to cog tip) whereas SRAM 12 speed is 40.15 wide, Shimano 12 speed 39.05 wide.

https://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Bicycles/Maintenance_and_Repair/Gear-changing_Dimensions#Cog_Pitch

https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=152690

EDit as I got them the wrong way round, correct now

Posted 5 years ago

teethgrinder
Full Member

Garbaruk do a cage conversion kit for SRAM mechs to take them from 11 to 12spd.

E13 will do the SRAM shifter 11 to 12 spd conversion kit for about 30 Euros if you ask nicely.

Posted 5 years ago