Zwift, my journey, my weight and my fitness.

I “thought” you’d been advised to do all your training outdoors to keep the handling skills sharp?

That's true yes. However, I have to ride Saturday morning during which heavy rain is predicted from 6am to 3pm. As much as I should be outside, I don't want to suffer that.

Interestingly my coach wants specificity also but also for me to do the right time in the right zones which lends its self to Road/Turbo. I have some "easy" rides next week though as its a rest week which I'll do as MTB - I need to be slithering in Mud.

I figure that particular ride which is advertised as average 2.5wkg but 3.5wkg on the hills will give me the 2.5hrs on the bike and 1hr in zone 6 he's asking for.

Hopefully I won't get bored.

[quote=weeksy ]You'll want to get on the pace with 10s to go mate, around 450-600w if you can, then hold that for the first 30-60s.

I think that's excessive. steady 200W as the clock ticks down and ~350W for 30-40s generally puts me in the front group of the cat C's

What's the protocol for racing where I sit firmly on the boundary between classes?

YMMV but I reckon you've possibly got more to come and you may get bumped out of the lower class once you get racing hard. Then again, you may be able to ride cagey as weeksy suggests and draft your way to a few pots. If you get bumped it's no big deal; take it as a compliment and move up next time

I've got an idea but it's not precise at all. I reckon I'll get bumped up but going to go for the lower of the two to start with and go from there.

Hmm... 4th in my category with some very bizarre power profiles of the guys in front of me. Not that I'm suggesting cheating of course. That said, maybe having a deep tissue massage two hours before the race wasn't the wisest thing to do.

Which racing series is the least... er... doctored?

As an aside, how the buggery do I get into someones draft when they pass me? On the road I'd put a bit of a dig in and obviously you can feather the brakes a touch to avoid overshooting. I spent almost half the race doing turns with a guy when I was really trying to sit on.

Which race was that mate?

WBR 3 Lap Hilly. Was pretty rubbish in terms of numbers after the fast people pissed off. I think I need something with a bigger field. Maybe later in the evening or something.

fields were pretty thin-looking this evening. I nearly went for that race (6.30 or so ?) but was too much of a rush so ended up doing a workout instead 🙄 I hate that hilly route, too though - straight into a hill after the starting sprint is just not right

Drafting has actually got easier believe it or not but you do have to learn it as you don't get a massive clue that you're in like you obviously do in real life (apart from your avatar sitting-up - I certainly don't think zwift makes it feel physically easier via ANT+ or anything like that)

... and well done on the 4th - great start (what's your zwift-name ?)
(keep watching the results; you might get acup yet, if the top 3 results are very dodgy)

WBR 3 Lap Hilly.

I think I saw that early pack come past, I was out on the hilly course knocking out an hour tempo.

Btw, what's the random shower of confetti about?

I spent almost half the race doing turns with a guy when I was really trying to sit o

Debating plan today... Done a few outdoor rides this week which have tired my legs, outdoors seems to affect them differently, i don't know whether it's the longer hills, the cadence, the drag of the dirt etc. I set a KOM, 2nd, 9th yesterday which was pretty cool as the trails are not exactly running quick at the moment.

So whether to jump in a race or not... Hmmm... Maybe... It's a thought anyway.

May try and find a volcano flat.

edit : KISS Pacific Crit at 12.50, volcano CCW, that's the one i think.

Did the 1-lap WBR race this afternoon to try and sneak back some points I lost in the WBR hilly race yesterday. Noticed that the race position on screen looked wrong. At one point I was 15th out of 13 - which may be true, but seems doubtful

At one point I was 15th out of 13

(ah - if you're GM you've been promoted due to [s]awesome throbbin'[/s] high power as they seem to ignore the fact that it's a sprint race)

I know, I was promoted to A which is a bit of a nonsense. On average I am a very content B.......and then C if the race is longer than 45mins.

I had the same yesterday Eemy, i was 32nd out of 18 and yet i finished 5th! I think zwift might be a bit poorly.

So yeah, in the wash-up I ended up 2nd after some of the dubious people got bumped up or DSQ. When I get back from sunnier climates I'll give it a proper go.

I have now been promoted to Div 1 on CVR, currently have 1466 points. Does this mean i get to go on an open top bus tour around the city?

Only just spotted this:
https://thomasburns61.wixsite.com/team-worlds-2017

Anyone else joining? It's on Saturday 25th November.

that’s the anti-wheelsucker feature

Please invent this..

Ok I get it now.

My first group ride today - 2:50 on the turbo average pace 31km. Like the way it uses w/kg to keep everyone level. Time went faster than I anticipated and I think this is the first time my head truly “integrated” with the Zwift world, with W/kg bringing realism to climbs etc.

Will be useful for shitty winter days.

FFS.

Anyone know how to get 1/2/5/10/20 min best power efforts not including virtual rides!?!? Driving me mad.

Still on my 7 day Zwift trial, loving it. 2 days left.

Elite direto smart trainer now here and it's so much better than my basic trainer was, and that wasnt bad.

I simply can't wait to get back on it. Every day do far, first few to get my thick head around it but now just riding for 45 mins to an hour at a time, I rarely managed more than 25 minutes on trainer Road.

I've basically told my riding pals not to expect to see me out riding trails until Spring. I'm a Zwifter now.

Lol you'll still find the urge, although this morning's rain kept me away from the trails I admit.

The lure of kom's and top 10s draw large now. Ok, so it's selective segments, but the still exist and can still happen now days.

But the trails are still more fun than Zwift. In the right conditions!

I'm going outside on a recovery ride tomorrow - on a 26er!

How very old fashioned...

2 excellent races over the weekend.
Yesterday was the WKG race over Waptopia flat, 3 lapper. Battles all round and worked like a beast. Got dropped on the dirt after the watery tunnel, but caught another guy and a group of 4 of us carried on to the last hill and roller coaster, I came 4th of 4 in our little sprint for 12th out of 28

Today was 4 laps of London classique with WBR, went off hard, way hard. Was bunched with some Cs, Bs and even A riders, I was doing OK ish, and powered up the hill OK on lap 1, and lap 2. Lap 3 the groups split there as the stronger climbers pulled out a gap. On the last lap we pulled a few riders back but were also caught by 3 others. Ended up in a group of about 6 of us who all went for it in the last 500m, I think I got 3rd in our group and 8th out of 47 in C. Arguably it was closer to 20th before many got bumped to B from C. But 8th is the recorded position.

Enjoyed the racing this weekend for sure.

I noticed in a lot of races there were many people getting bumped. Is this people who are new to zwift or did everyone this weekend wake up in top form and outperformed their usual category?

Dunno mate, I've not looked at their history. Some bloke went past us in D cat, averaging 4.3! He got bumped to A lol. Just checking, he's done 22 races. So you'd think he'd know he's not a Day.

Yesterday was the WKG race over Waptopia flat, 3 lapper

I was in that as well 17th out of 26 B's and only just managed to out sprint the C winner to be the last B not over taken.

I only just scrape into B's so I'm happy with mid table mediocrity.

Well done Jamie, good chunk ahead of me !

I was going great guns in the 4 lap flat race...........until the power cable came out of the turbo. Quite happy on one hand because I thought I had broken it for a minute.

I was tempted to race this evening but sore legs suggested the fire and a glass of wine was a better choice.

If you’re trying to be “balanced”* with your training I’m guessing 2 races per week is sensible?

*Weeksy need not reply with what he’d do 🙂

I guess it depends on how you race. For many Cat A's, they are only sitting at Sweetspot in the bunch so a race is more like an interval session. They also generally have slightly higher weekly volume so can do more races for a given percentage of their weekly workload.

For me, if I'm going to race then it's full on Anaerobic efforts up every climb, and Threshold in the bunch so I have to do so sparingly to feel fresh enough to give my best.

Weeksy has given himself a very flat power curve through racing lots- that's why he gets dropped on the short rises 😆

I was going to comment but, meh, f#%* y'all

😆

I was in a 4 lap flat race the other day. Only had zwift for 3 weeks so a newbie. Anyhoo going by the guidelines I can average the 2.5w/kg to 3.1 I've deemed myself a cat C. Anyhoo came in about 3 minutes behind the cat C leader. My results were flagged up as rank up to a B.? Seems a bit strange my FTP is showing as 289 .

Zwift racing can be weird in the context that some riders can 'hide' better than others. When you get dragged along with the right group, finding 3 mins isn't that hard compared to the group that's 3 min behind.

You'll be flagged because in it's opinion your at/around the 3.2w/kg catagory limit.

Got a link to the race ?

At the pointy end of C, it's not that much of a leap to the back of B.

There was a race recetnly i finished mid pack C, but weirdly that was also mid-pace B ! Usually my position of group 2 in C puts me 3-4 from the back end of a 40 group B.

It's based on the performance in that race. If you average over the 3.1w/kg in that race you'll get bumped up to the next category. Your own FTP should probably be just a guide as to what category to enter. After a few races you get a better feel of what you are capable of.

Smart Turbo bought on Saturday. FTP test Wednesday. Race Friday.
Oof.
Worst thing about the FTP test was it was exactly what I estimated it would be from Strava so pointless ;0)

FTP suggests top end of C category.

4 laps of Watopia flat on Friday night. Took the advice of 300+ watts off the start line and was in second group with mostly B's. Doing ok until the rollercoaster run in to the finish and got dropped as didn't know what was coming. Dropped back to 3rd group of mostly C's and a couple of B's. Hung with them and nearly got dropped again in the same place but got back on. Last lap couldn't hold onto the attacks at the end and was running last in the group but caught the 2 B's and beat them to the line.
Interesting. Possibly could have held onto faster group if I knew what was coming. Possibly not this time either.
Not interesting was computer issues with 15 minutes to go when I should have been warming up and having a chat with both children half way through :0) Then cramping badly as I finished as my Glutes aren't strong enough apparently.

4 laps of Watopia flat on Friday night. Took the advice of 300+ watts off the start line and was in second group with mostly B's. Doing ok until the rollercoaster run in to the finish and got dropped as didn't know what was coming. Dropped back to 3rd group of mostly C's and a couple of B's. Hung with them and nearly got dropped again in the same place but got back on. Last lap couldn't hold onto the attacks at the end and was running last in the group but caught the 2 B's and beat them to the line.
Interesting. Possibly could have held onto faster group if I knew what was coming. Possibly not this time either.
Not interesting was computer issues with 15 minutes to go when I should have been warming up and having a chat with both children half way through :0) Then cramping badly as I finished as my Glutes aren't strong enough apparently

Sounds great.

Zwift racing is one of them things, i imagine like FTP tests, the more you do, the better you get. Your body gets tuned to the type of riding, racing, intensity, HRs etc, so you get better as Zwift racing.

Mine seems to know now that i can manage it for the 45-60 mins and then it gets time off... LOL.

Although i do seem close to tweaking muscles at the moment...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health-fitness/body/zwift-story-behind-indoor-cycling-phenomenon/

I am tempted to knock the racing on the head for a couple of months and, if I can stick with it, do the FTP builder programme. Not this week though 🙂 probably have a crack at one of the 4-lap flats later!

zilog6128 - Member
I am tempted to knock the racing on the head for a couple of months and, if I can stick with it, do the FTP builder programme. Not this week though probably have a crack at one of the 4-lap flats later!

Oh man, CH has got to you with the Triffids !

yeah, it was his comment last week "racing isn't training". 🙂 which is a fair point I think, got to decide though whether the short term loss (of fun) will be balanced by better fitness/more fun both for Zwift racing & outdoor rides.

zilog6128 - Member
yeah, it was his comment last week "racing isn't training". which is a fair point I think, got to decide though whether the short term loss (of fun) will be balanced by better fitness/more fun both for Zwift racing & outdoor rides.

With the way my Zwift performances have plateaued, it is undoubtedly correct IMO, he's right. However, there's no way i'm training in a training context.

I'd rather be an average C than a mid B wanting to kill myself 🙂

@Zilog

I've also (reluctantly) signed up for a structured plan rather than just smashing it for an hour during races.

Actually signed up for a [url= https://www.todaysplan.com.au/ ]Today's Plan[/url] 6 weeker, which puts custom workouts in your Zwift folder. The FTP builder in Zwift looks good but the sessions seem too long.

ta, will have a look at that!

EDIT: $18 /month !?!

Yeah, although signing up for the freebie will give you full access to a plan + workouts which you can decide to keep even if you don't sing up for the full thing 😉

cunning! 🙂

aiming for KISS second base at 8pm if anyone else is on.

I did the EVR 6 laps of london classique this morning, very weird things going on in that race. I was with the lead group and was going quite nicely but just before Horseman Hill on lap 3 i got a stitch (again) and couldnt power up the hill so i was about 3 secs behind the group so i dropped a watt bomb and i got even further away! That is the power of the group, i was pulling 400w for a long time and just got further away. I then rode with a fellow B and he just dropped off even though the pace was moderate, he was 45 secs behind and then in one lap he tagged on to a group behind and ended up 30 secs ahead of me! They just powered past me pulling a constant 4.6w/kg, i couldnt live with that. On the 5th lap i caught a few of them as it looked like they had some issues, i was then left to beat a group of A and B’s who i had a 30 sec gap on. I turned myself inside out on the final lap and the gap was coming down rapidly but managed to get to the line just 3 secs ahead of them. I took 5th in B but quite a few riders were not in the final results so deffo strange things going on and the rider list is still strange, i was leading the race yet it said i was 21 of 25!

I guess it depends on how you race. For many Cat A's

I think we can rule out just an interval session:-)

I’m more likely to need a sick bucket.

I'm (part of the way 😉 ) with weeksy here; before I did zwift I'd just bimble around outside at pretty gentle pace (esp in winter) with the odd hard effort chucked in. The only exception was about once every fortnight I'd go nightriding with my mate who's a much faster rider, so I got a 2hr near-threshold beating now & again.

Zwift is the hardest I've evere ridden, really mostly because it tells you how hard you're (not) pedalling, and it's made a big difference to my fitness and my weight (and my type2 diabetes 😳 )

... and I genuinely enjoy the "racing" even though I've never raced in real life, or even considered it. I'm not about to go & ruin that by training my pretty little ass off on a plan. Apart from anything else, my time slots to get on the thing are limited and fairly unpredictable

oh, and is that* what zwift looks like on your PCs ? 😯
Mine's and old TV and a shit PC - way less "real" than that

*
[img] ?imwidth=1400[/img]

Wow that looks loads better than on the iPad!!!

You can do both. Just treat the 4 week ftp builder as a six week plan and do a Zwift race each week folllowed by an easy spin the next day.

So you would do the Monday workout as planned, KISS EU on Tuesday for example, extra recovery ride or day off on Wednesday then the Tuesday ride on Thursday etc etc.

I do think you can race yourself fit too- BUT ONLY IF YOU RACE TO LOSE! As in to blow yourself up. If you only ever race to finish at the line with enough juice for a sprint then where is the improvement coming from???

And if you care about your rankings, racing till you blow isn't as option- thus why racing isn't training 🙂

Unless you are sandbagging, why would you aim to have something left in reserve at the end of a race?

Always aim to blow up just after the finish line in my races 😆

If you ever sprint for the line then you haven't emptied yourself enough to improve your race pace. (Assuming your only intensity each week is racing on Zwift).

Let's say the C group has you at 270w each race. How are you going to generate the ability to ride for the same time at 290w if you never ride at 290w until failure or at least long enough to trigger your body to adapt??

Thanks to the wonder of the internet, I know that Weeksy first read this article on the 15th February 2015 😆

He said it was a good read but I'm not sure he actually did 😆 😀

http://www.cyclingweekly.com/fitness/training/racing-is-not-training-33531

Let's say the C group has you at 270w each race. How are you going to generate the ability to ride for the same time at 290w if you never ride at 290w until failure or at least long enough to trigger your body to adapt??

Try and hang onto the B’s a little bit longer every race...

But it's likely the B's won't push you to (say) 290w either. You'll draft just the same and they'll drop you on a climb-which is a different system within the body (Vo2 Max rather than Threshold).

Just race and have fun, then seethe when some obvious cheat beats you, then gloat when you beat some random Norwegian in the final sprint ...................that's what Zwift is.

Whereas training and FTP building is just dull.

Dull until you start beating people who used to beat you. It doesn't need to be every ride- just once a week would help.

How about starting the sprint for the last 250m at 5km to go 🙂

He said it was a good read but I'm not sure he actually did

Reading it and doing it are different. I can psychologically prepare myself to Zwift race each and every night, hanging in, pushing the front, positioning etc. However, asking me to do 300w for 2 mins, then 80w, then 310w, sorry, I'm not into that.

Well yes Piemonster- that will do it but who's going to risk the inevitable minus CVR points that follow 😆

As I say all the time, race or don't race however you like- it really doesn't worry me but there's little excuse for being baffled at lack of progress.

The only silly part about it the way I see it- is that you are flogging yourself into the ground for no improvement whereas for the same weekly hours and calories, you could encourage your body to progress and ultimately burn even more calories in the same time frame!

But only if you continue to train, not if you bail through boredom.

If this time next year, I'm the exact same power, 3-5kg less and still enjoying the battles in C, then I'm 100% happy with that. I don't need to be better.

But one hour out of six each week is not much of a commitment if it starts showing results is it??

If you do it creatively, it won't even feel like training. One lap on, one lap off on the Volcano Circuit for a few laps for example. With a ten minute warm up and cool down, Boom- there's an hour gone.

Balls. Missed the start of the KISS race by about ten seconds. Crappy updates. Doing the WBR at 20.55 instead.

But you won't be lighter- as your body gets used to the effort, it becomes more efficient so you'll need to eat less and less.

Or get fitter- increase your metabolism and muscle mass and burn more calories for less effort 😉

But one hour out of six each week is not much of a commitment if it starts showing results is it??

If you do it creatively, it won't even feel like training. One lap on, one lap off on the Volcano Circuit for a few laps for example. With a ten minute warm up and cool down, Boom- there's an hour gone.

I could manage once a week yes

[img] [/img]

😆

I unhooked the racing bike from the turbo trainer today, it was weird!!

Normal service will resume, I'm thinking KISS tomorrow evening!

Oi Bond!! Put your spoon away 😆
You know I'm right though- you're Zwift racing to maintain fitness, not expecting gains other than those from racing smarter.

******

One last post to make the point and then I'm done 🙂

Mr Blobby went out today and burned 800calories per hour on a Z2 ride.

Weeksy- your last RACE plus warm up was 50minutes and still only burned the same amount!!!!

Power = calories. Producing more power for less effort is the very definition of cycling fitness.

The body is crafty- it adapts. If you want to move past the efficiency gain ceiling then you need to get fitter and that basically means raising your ftp.

So train, don't train, race or don't race but be aware of the limitations of what you're doing 🙂

I am being a hypocrite as I Zwift raced myself into a hole a couple of years ago but I've also gone from D Cat to the top of B since..,,,

Winner, winner chicken dinner...

Nice win there Jam bo, another gold for the STW trophy cabinet.

Not sure about those results. There was quite a bunch sprint for the finish, but only 3 of us showing on the same or similar time.

Still, a gold cup is a gold cup....

Top work sir 🙂 Congratulations 🙂

meh. rechecked zwiftpower this morning and half the field was unlinked. probably still top 5 in C's but shame not see the proper results as it was a good race & sprint finish with quite a group.

Oooo. Quite tempted by KISS at 8 as I've never raced Greater London Flat and it's my favourite training route.

crosshair - Member
Oooo. Quite tempted by KISS at 8 as I've never raced Greater London Flat and it's my favourite training route.

Tempting as i was looking for an event for today, but nothing is jumping out at me..

Although that one is a bit on the long distance side of things for me... Not sure i can cope... Course is fairly appropriate for me though i guess.

Endurance ride on tired legs followed by a few recovery days then a race and a long ride at the weekend or straight into some recovery days.

Quite glad to have that tired feeling back, work being done