Zwift, my journey, my weight and my fitness.

I tackled the mountain today, with the Virtual resistance still set onto 50%. It makes the mountain very very interesting, you're up the cassette, down the cassette, only generally using 2-3 gears but as it flattens out, you lose momentum if you don't kick and change with the flattening terrain in sections, you'll drop from 300w down to 140w, then when you hit the hill you get a quick smack of power as you hit the gradient of 400w, then back down to your 300w climbing power. At times it was hitting 12% incline, i was finding it hard, so it was click, click, lighter gear... That's where the big difference is on the Smart trainer over the dumb. You also have to plan a little more in Smart mode as you're getting to the top of a section and you know the guys on dumb turbos will crest the hill and still be 300w, so you have to work out how you're going to do that yourself.

Still finding it plenty of enjoyable fun that's for sure. No regrets on spending the cash anyway.

It's possible that some riders on smart turbos are at a disadvantage when it comes to racing for the reasons you note, personally I am OK with that as my goal is improving my RL riding which I think is better accomplished using a realistic resistance on the hills.

You do need to think ahead though... the first time I hit that sudden 15% bit (or is it more?) coming out of the tube on the London map, with the realism at 100%, I wasn't expecting it & my legs almost fell off 🙂

So who was it I pootled past and gave a ride on and a wave to 'S.Graham STW' I think I may add STW after my name so people can spot me!

From Zwift riders on facebook

'TRAINER DIFFICULTY SLIDER EXPLANATION
I and many others on this group have helped to clarify the misunderstandings of the difficulty slider control in Zwift. It's been discussed a bit in comments lately, but I thought a dedicated post might be helpful to reach more eyeballs.
It's true that if you stay in the same gear on your bike, on the same grade, changing the difficulty control WILL make the smart trainer increase or decrease its resistance. BUT, no matter what the difficulty setting is, you will not go any faster or slower. Zwift calculates your speed by your power output. Changing the setting will not affect your power output in any way, so it cannot make you go faster or slower.
If you decrease the setting, the trainer resistance (difficulty) AND your power AND your speed will go down at same grade/cadence. If you increase the setting, the trainer resistance (difficulty) AND your power AND your speed will go up at the same grade/cadence.
So why would you use the setting? Mostly if your bike's physical gears make it too difficult to spin going up the toughest hills on Zwift. That's probably why the setting defaults at 50%. Many people don't have climbing gears (or the fitness) to climb 12% grades at a comfortable 90 RPM cadence. You could also use it if you're running out of gears on descents (spinning excessively). In that case, you might want to increase the setting.
So, lowering the setting creates the effect of adding more climbing gears on your bike. And increasing the setting has the effect of making the virtual gears on your Zwift bike match the physical gears on your actual bike. At 100% they're the same.
It's also important to note that if you have the setting at 100% it does not mean that you have the same gearing as someone else who has the setting at 100%. That will be determined by the actual gears on your bike.
So bragging that you're at 100% means absolutely nothing. If you want to brag, brag about your power, because that's the only thing that matters. Having your setting at 100% in no way means you're stronger than someone accomplishing the same result at 50% or 25%.
People swap gears in real life not to go faster or slower, but to match the gears to the rider's fitness and type of riding. The better the match, the more efficient your pedaling. The Zwift trainer difficulty setting should be used the same way.'

So who was it I pootled past and gave a ride on and a wave to 'S.Graham STW' I think I may add STW after my name so people can spot me!

That'd have been me - I was tootling around doing the Volcano doing week 1, day 4 of the FTP Builder. I saw the ride on and wondered if you might be an STWer!

You can recreate the smart trainer effect by changing up or down through the gears on a dumb trainer.
The difference was, you couldn't on Weeksy's borrowed BKool.
The gap between the Snap and what he had before is humongous 😀

Erm so I'm either not as good as my old equipment (Tacx Vortex) led me to believe or something has gone wrong with my stages.

Stages:
[img] [/img]

Vortex:
[img] [/img]

Now can I join B's?! 😆

That BRS TT was tough. I think I'm actually dead?

That's a shame Nath, a 63w difference?!

63 watts is a big difference, can you try your bike + Stages on another Smart trainer?

BRS TT was tough, set a new max hr for this year, and last year probably

Very tough David. Nice little battle with you on the second lap!

Some stats from that BRS TT -

Average power 323w (equates to 4.48w/kg)
Average HR 184
Max HR 192

Thought I was going to be sick

Did a warm up before the KISS race, went to perform a spindown as usual and the Wahoo utility insisted I did a FW update. All updated ok, did advanced spindown then a normal one.

At the off I found myself screaming through the pack and straight off the front, was very surprised to see >1Kw eased off and kickr still showing 400W, bugger. Abandoned the race and tried a reboot/spindown, still power way up on what it should be. A quick google shows I ma not the only person having this issue with update. Awaiting Wahoo support.

Anyone with a KICKR please be aware.

Max hr was only 165, average was 157, NP = 303 and a new record for w/kg.

Training is good for you, but nothing beats a race ( and a battle) for an all out effort

Also did the BRS TT, looked like there was a good STW turnout (i'm mostly a lurker). Only had 5mins to get changed and setup, a rather rude awakening after feeling knackered at work. Still good fun in a racey sufferery way though 😀

If we are doing ride stats

Average power 278w (3.3w/kg)
Average HR 169
Max HR 182

Need to get the FTP up and the FAT down 😛

Heh heh, that was fun, bringing up the rear, and crashed out on the final lap with hamster style heart conditions... will be back though.. hope to improve.

Looks like things have gone horribly wrong with the TT race: http://zwiftpower.com/race.php?id=3101#

I didn't calibrate the stages beforehand, but I doubt that would make such a huge difference. Don't really know anyone locally to test it against.

does everyone with the KICKR do advanced spin-down every time they ride?

Im wondering why sometimes the w/kg rating is bright white bold writing but at other times its slightly dull, I've not yet figured out what differentiates it being either dull or bright. Happens for other riders around me too.

"TT bikes only for Time Trial Race"

Checked before and after when I spotted the flag next to my result, definately used a TT bike. Somethings cocked up.

I did the FW update last night on my KICKR2 and all OK. I don't spindown calibrate before every ride. Should I?

I think I'll be dq'd or upgraded from KISS D after a strong last lap. Next time I'll go up to C.

As always I really struggled for the first 15 minutes and almost quit, then ok for 10 minutes, then the watts drop back until I wake up and have a strong finish. I definitely prefer the hillier courses despite being 94kg, I just can't sustain the effort on the flat. You'd never think that I live in the Fens 😉

Wow!! That was fun. 9/75 in KISS B.

Even better- I only needed 3.2w/kg to do it compared to the 3.8 or so of those around me. Smarter not harder folks 🙂

That KISS race was hard. As always, dropped on the climbs but managed to hang on OK for first couple of laps then steadily got slower and slower. Mid table of the B's so quite happy with that.

Even better- I only needed 3.2w/kg to do it compared to the 3.8 or so of those around me. Smarter not harder folks

😀 I didn't realise the webcam was on 😉

I only did a sub 2 ride RO4H, was ridiculously easy for 2.5 laps - despite being advertised as 1.3-1.9 I was largely at 130W or less - to stay with the leader but then had a bit of a burn up from about 4 miles out just so I actually worked up a sweat.

Was intrigued that some people finished 10 mins in front of me and probably therefore 12-13mins in front of the leader with average W/kg in the high 2's and low 3's. Do they count them as wins? Muppets!

Well in looks like I won last nights KISS D 8)
I didn't get an advisory to upgrade but I still think I'll go to C as there's not much group riding in D.

Awesome result Drive and Murphy... Great work lads...

Another month ends.... 545km last month, which i'm pretty happy with considering i missed 5 days training.

Well done Drive!!

I don't get Naths 'Murphy' tag lol

I stole it off Weeksy - robocop/murphy 😆

@weeksy I'd be interested to see CHs stages versus your kickr. I didn't realise how subjective power is!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RoboCop_(character)

[img] [/img]

We need to get you racing in a Robocop jersey !

[img] [/img]

@weeksy I'd be interested to see CHs stages versus your kickr. I didn't realise how subjective power is!

Nath, don't forget, he has the same turbo as me and his is almost exactly the same on both his stages and his Snap.

If he's up for coming over for some testing, then of course i've got no issues if it would help you.

Based upon my figures and what we worked out recently with the Stages and Garmin pedals, i'd say my Snap is certainly not a million miles out if at all.

Hell, you're more than welcome to come over with your kit too mate, i know it's a drive/faff, but you'd be welcome

Ah I see 😀

Weeksy- like any machine, individual units can vary but I don't see why it wouldn't be ballpark correct.
Happy to test next week.

It isn't accurate for the first 5-10 mins from cold though....

It did pretty well in DCRainmakers tests.
https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2015/06/wahoo-kickr-snap.html

It isn't accurate for the first 5-10 mins from cold though....

Brings up an interesting question for me.

I generally loosen off the adjuster after each ride (as i saw what it did to Joes tyre), do you re-spindown on it after tensioning it again each time ? I think the manual states something like "if removed from the turbo...." but is that the same as loosening the adjuster... i don't know really. I have some white tape on the adjuster, so i know it's in the same position each time i tighten it up.

If so, do you do 10 mins warmup first before Spindown ? I only did about 5 last night...

A couple of questions popped up from last night...

1/ how do I go about joining the STW team on zwiftpower?
2/ is it normal on the first lap for all the other riders to disappear and come back randomly? Almost as if the network is overloaded.

Looks like either my non finish, or my accidental use of a power-up at the start when I was fiddling with the iPhone caused my details to disappear off the results table.

I have a Tacx Vortex Smart. For a while I just did a spindown before starting a session (didn't want to interrupt a TrainerRoad workout partway through), and figured that if the absolute values were off then they'd still be roughly consistent, so it would be fine (with virtual power like a Vortex and a Snap, it's never going to be guaranteed very close to true watts anyway). However, as the weather got colder (mine is in a shed), the difference between cold and warm increased, so the calibration effectively drifted with the season.

Since then I have got a PowerTap hub, and have compared Vortex and PowerTap quite a lot. DC Rainmaker is right that it takes about 10 minutes to warm up (depends on what you do during that period, of course). But on top of that, the calibration continues to drift quite a lot, depending on what you're doing. If (after things are already warmed up) I, say, put it in Erg mode and set to 200W for 5 minutes, then do a spindown calibration, then continue at 200W, the Vortex will actually do a decent job of reporting around the right value and holding it. But if I then drop down to 100W for 5 minutes, then you can see the tyre/roller/resistance unit cooling down as the PowerTap and Vortex drift apart a bit. If I then go back into 200W then it will start off with the resistance actually higher than it should be (i.e. PowerTap will report ~220W) because things are colder than at spindown time, then over the course of 5 minutes or so it will warm back up and come back into rough alignment.

So, what I tend to do is NOT do a spindown before starting a workout (no point replacing the last session's 'warm' calibration with a 'cold' one). That does mean that the first few minutes are way harder than they should be as the unit comes up from 3C or whatever. But then I do a spindown once I've got it pretty warm, and often another one after a decent length interval at the most-important-for-me level.

For zwifting, I guess the only sensible thing to do is spend 10 minutes at approximately your average workload then do a calibration. But, the reality is that these cheapish units are really not only reporting virtual power that might be offset from 'real', but are not as consistent as we'd like across a range of power levels and wheel speeds (and ambient temperatures).

It's interesting that in the Kickr2 they've actually ditched the strain gauge that was in the Kickr1 as they found that they got more consistent data without using it. I *think* the Kickr(2) has temperature compensation whereas the Snap doesn't, but I'm not sure. I'd be interested to know whether the Snap is less vulnerable to temperature than the Vortex. If the Snap is temperature-stable then I'd be very happy with one of those, but otherwise I can see myself eventually going with a Kickr.

1. Create an account in ZP, then from profile page you have a little down arrow to the right of your picture.... use that and just type STW in the box

2. It's not uncommon for riders to disappear, usually for me it's 1 rider ... The general consensus is that it's a network dropout at your end when lots/all disappear (i'm yet to be convinced of that personally).

I generally don't care about the ZPower results any more... if racing, i race who's next to me and that's it really. More so if it's an STWer of course... But the actual results on ZP have been pathetically useless over the past month, so i've stopped even looking to see if they've worked now.

Thanks Weeksy - much appreciated. I've added STW, and yes it could be the network at my end.
Looking forward to getting on again, and hopefully finishing the race next time around. the racing really made me work a lot harder than I would have on my own.

Gray:
I get a similar drift in results from my Tacx Vortex and powermeter. I've also noticed that at lower power (100w) the two units match fairly well, but once about 200w I get a 10% difference, and when pushing hard it drifts out to a 15% difference.
I don't mind too much, but I wish I could easily remove my power trace from strava, or have a different power curves for two devices.

Question for the techies.

Over my cold at last so hopped on last night for some much needed exercise - but something odd seems to have happened

My Garmin GSC10 Zwift has now decided is a Pioneer cadence sensor & the readings are literally all over the place. Cadence on the Garmin was +/-90rpm, Yet Zwift seems to think I was crawling at 65rpm. I'm inclined to say the Garmin was correct, 90 is about my natural pedalling pace & thats how it felt. As a result, power is through the floor etc.

Restarted everything, tried to resync, but it still thinks its a Pioneer.

Any ideas?

I've only spot checked my power meter against what the turbo is reporting in Zwift, however I think the next ride I'll record power from the power meter on my Garmin, then compare it with what Zwift has recorded from the T2240.

@weeksy - haha we should club together for that jersey 😆 Thanks for the offer! The purchase of a stages is looking very appealing at the moment over a new turbo trainer...

@gray - thanks for that! I'm using the Vortex in a cold garage (where it waits). Last night I got onto Zwift with 4 minutes to spare so couldn't do any calibrating on either the Tacx/Stages.

However even with my sporadic calibration routine the Vortex has remained fairly consistent (the last result was with the stages): http://www.zwiftpower.com/profile.php?id=8544067

I'm going to do some more tests to get the Vortex to match the stages on Zwift (by adjusting my weight/height) - then I can work on development when the stages goes back using the same numbers.

Club together ? it's only a Tenner... if i'd known, i'd have bought it for his birthday 🙂

I'm going to do some more tests to get the Vortex to match the stages on Zwift (by adjusting my weight/height) - then I can work on development when the stages goes back using the same numbers.

I suspect a lot of the power readings from the turbo's are bollocks. I'll check my T2240 against my power meter, and could probably do the same with the KICKR that mossimus has, given he lives walking distance from me.

The previous time I checked the power meter against the T2240 both had been calibrated however the T2240 and the tyre would have been cold so I suppose that could change a bit when both warm up.

I've tested my wahoo kickr against my Garmin Vectors and the two are within a few watts throughout the range.

Nathan, if you've an FTP of 340 at <70kg. I hope you spend more time training for a domestic team than you do messing around on Zwift.

Nathan, if you've an FTP of 340 at <70kg. I hope you spend more time training for a domestic team than you do messing around on Zwift.

He's doing well in CAT4 races... but as a solo guy, not a team thing.

@weeksy - ah I didn't know that, where's it from?

@The Southern Yeti - My FTP is the Tacx Vortex's lie, adjusted it now 😆

Out on a real life circuit my best 20 mins FTP is 270W (but I'm nowhere near full out at all for those 20 mins). Which is leading me to hope that the stages needs calibrating for use on the turbo trainer.