Zwift, my journey, my weight and my fitness.

Nope. KISS is strictly a one way street!!!!

We don't want any old Tom Dick and Nath in the B Cat anyway 😀

CATS and what you need to know about them
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Since the early days of racing on Zwift we have had arbitrary Cats to subdivide the mass start races. They exist to help people to form into groups of approximately the same ability, give people an indication of whether the person in front is worth chasing etc. In short they are a mechanism to make the races more interesting and fun for participants.
FTP W/kg isn't perfect but currently it is the best simple metric with good correlation to race time across different course types.

To identify which Cat you are in you need to know your FTP and your weight. Zwift gives you a couple of options here, it will estimate your FTP based upon the best 20 minute effort it sees and then multiplies this by 0.95 to give you an estimated FTP. There are also a couple of FTP tests in workout mode that will give you a more accurate estimate of your FTP. You simply divide your FTP in Watts by your weight. This will give you a figure between about 1 and 5 W/kg. Your profile on Zwift Power ( http://www.zwiftpower.com/v2/ click on the riders tab at the top and search for your name) will also suggest an estimated FTP based upon the average of 95% of your best 3 twenty minute race efforts. Zwift Power will also indicate in the race results if your estimated FTP is over the W/kg requirement for your selected Cat as shown by the grey FTP icon below:

This isn’t an enforced upgrade, we understand that the estimate can be skewed by rides with bad set ups and incorrectly calibrated equipment.

The KISS categories are listed below:

Cat. A: 4.0 W/kg FTP or higher.
Cat. B: 3.2 W/kg to 3.99 W/kg FTP
Cat. C: 2.5 W/kg to 3.19 W/kg FTP
Cat. D: Under 2.49 W/kg FTP

There appears to be some confusion about how this works on a practical level within Zwift and KISS races in particular.

Firstly within KISS it is a one way system, you go up. That's it (with the exception of a set up change e.g. going from Zpower to a Tacx Neo, in which case contact the race organisers first before changing your Cat.). Feeling out of shape is not a reason to drop a Cat, wanting an easy race is not a reason to drop a Cat. If spotted riding as a lower Cat you will be DQ'd in the results (and we are working on a way to do that automatically).

To spell it out plainly, I don't expect people who know they are A's and B's to race in the starter races, obviously if it is your first race then it isn't a problem but please upgrade for the next race.

Secondly the system is based upon your FTP value NOT your race performance, your race performance is a lagging indicator of your FTP. It is our only way of saying "well done you've been promoted." We don't have access to your FTP in Zwift and we rely on people to self police in the community to a certain extent. There is no way you should be getting anywhere near a 20 minute effort that will improve your FTP value as shown by Zwift in a 1 hour race, IF your FTP is entered correctly. Remember that the 20 minute effort in an FTP is an ALL OUT effort which will leave you empty and unable to continue if you are doing it right. If you are towards the top of your Cat based upon a 20 minute race effort you almost certainly are ALREADY over the boundary line into the next Cat and should consider upgrading. We shouldn't have to nag people to upgrade, it is easy enough to find out your FTP in Zwift and we need racers to take responsibility for choosing the correct Category. As organisers it simply isn't practical for us to check everyone manually.

boom boom. 6th. although I have the same time as 5th and he was clearly cruising with an FTP of 300w/3.8W/Kg. No wonder I got outsprinted on the line

6th ! Nice.... well done...

It seems i've got a lot of comeback work to match some of the STWer recent result.

Gentle 90 mins tonight for me, well, about 3/4 race pace i'm planning for overall.

Anyone else doing the 6:30 ZTR race tonight?

6th ! Nice.... well done...

I think the EVR cat limits suit me. C is limited to 3.2 W/Kg which meant I was near the front and competitive which was nice. plus there was a good strong group right up until the bottom of the KoM climb when it all splintered.

I think the EVR cat limits suit me. C is limited to 3.2 W/Kg which meant I was near the front and competitive which was nice. plus there was a good strong group right up until the bottom of the KoM climb when it all splintered.

I'm hoping with the new turbo i'm somewhere not a million miles away from that. I can certainly hope to be around that for 30mins... whether i can for 50 mins, not so sure yet... we'll see in a few weeks. I have to admit, i'm missing the racing at the moment.

Apart from a freak 2.7 which was probably down to poor turbo set up most my races give me a w/kg of 2.4-2.5. I did managed to average 3.4 w/kg up Box Hill so I just need to translate that to longer distances...

Here's a fairly random question.

What effect will lower pressure tyres have on performance ? I'm going to run my Parkwood with a Hybrid type tyre fitted for some longer distance practice rides, but that will only inflate i guess to somethign in the 70's, maybe 80psi at a push... How will that affect things do you rekon ?
I won't be timing or pushing myself as such, it's just from a comfort perspective and to simulate some rides i have planned for the coming year.

does the wahoo do a rolldown calibration? as long as you do that it should compensate.

I assume you mean within zwift rather than IRL?

jam bo - Member

does the wahoo do a rolldown calibration? as long as you do that it should compensate.

Yup... That's good then 🙂

GolfChick - Member

I assume you mean within zwift rather than IRL?

Yes, for this discussion. IRL it will be on gravel/Ridgeway, but i've got a couple of 100 mile events planned, so thought it makes some sense doing a certain amount of turbo work on the bike i'll be using for the events. My road bike doesn't go outdoors.

andeh - Member

Slapped up the "difficulty" to max tonight and did volcano>mountain. About 15mins into the climb the Tacx Flow started cutting out at random intervals for a few seconds at a time. Jumping off and having a feel, the thing was red hot. I popped the difficulty down to about 3/4 and it seemed to sort it out, after it had cooled down. I guess the brake unit can't handle the sustained high resistance Bit disappointing.

While it's not ideal, you could always get a little desk fan & aim it at the Flow Smart if you didn't want to run it at max realism....

I was considering trying it on max realism, but perhaps I won't bother...

I suspect the problem is that the Flow Smart can't go above 6% I think in real gradient terms. So, if you put the realism up to max & go up a hill (the mountain) that maintains >6% the brake will be constantly at 'max' - which I guess is going to make it hot. There's that little fan on the end of the motor shaft, but it doesn't look like it shifts a lot of air.

Tyre up to max recommend pressure. X2 full turns once the roller touches. Then perform a normal spin down. I assume that you did an advanced spin down when you set it up the first time from new. Don't repeat this.

I assume that you did an advanced spin down when you set it up the first time from new. Don't repeat this.

No, the new Snaps don't allow/need the advanced Spindown. The option has been removed from the App (I assume based upon your Firmware). I was looking for it and very confused when i collected and spoke to Wahoo on live chat and they informed me the Advanced Spindown is done in-house now.

@CH Was all that for me? 😆

I knew I'd be DQ'd, wasn't racing for that, but to keep with some fellow STWers.

I'm bailing on tonight, doing the BRS TT at 7:05pm instead as 8pm is just too late for me.

Nath- I only cut and paste it from Michae Ede off of the KISS FB 🙂

I suspect the problem is that the Flow Smart can't go above 6% I think in real gradient terms. So, if you put the realism up to max & go up a hill (the mountain) that maintains >6% the brake will be constantly at 'max' - which I guess is going to make it hot. There's that little fan on the end of the motor shaft, but it doesn't look like it shifts a lot of air

That was my thinking, it's clearly not a particularly robust unit, no wonder it can't hack the sustained periods at full resistance. I thought about the fan option, but seemed a bit messy, might try and sort a more elegant solution.

Yeah the flow is only made for 6% and I didnt find it particularly robust a unit, I couldnt push as much as I was capable of without feeling like it was about to collapse so I've upgraded my turbo option and sold it on to my friend who is really unfit and who will find it good for his level of riding currently.

I've got some mutant cold bug atm after a double ride weekend both outdoors and indoors so I'm gonna have to miss out riding tonight which grieves my greatly!

mine starting clicking again last night after a hard race. I think I'll keep riding it until it falls apart, get a replacement from halfords and then flog it. hopefully it'll last until spring and I can get something else next winter.

I've got a kurt kinetic road machine that I fancy the smart control upgrade for once they iron out some of the teething problems.

@nathb I also plan to do the BRS TT tonight. First TT attempt in a few weeks for me, need to judge the warm up right and not over or under do it. I will be doing it on a TT bike in preparation for 30km of wet hilly roads around the South Downs on Sunday.

@b1gf00t - there is now warm up by the way, just got to go all out as soon as the countdown hits 0.

Say hi!

Apart from a freak 2.7 which was probably down to poor turbo set up most my races give me a w/kg of 2.4-2.5. I did managed to average 3.4 w/kg up Box Hill so I just need to translate that to longer distances...

I'm about 2.6W/kg by the looks of it, which is not going to be particularly competitive in Cat-C if I get booted from Cat-D next time I race. My PB up box hill was only 3.0W/kg though - so I've have thought if can do 3.4W/kg you should be able to do a fair bit more than 2.4-2.5.

I've also just realised that I've been using cranks at 2 different lengths. Didn't bother to check what was on the bike when I bought the power meter (thinking I knew!) but turns out one side was 172.5 and the other 175. Fixed now - not sure it'll have any benefits from an FTP point of view though - although I've also lost a kilo in weight, which will!

I'm going to do a lap of Watopia flat then a full mountain climb as it will be the first time up the mountain on a smart trainer. I've lost some ground on my Strava buddies on some of the mountain climbs as i never do it, so will give it a go and see if i can put the world to rights a bit 🙂

Planning to take part in the KISS race at 8 tonight, (STW) in the name of course

Gonna jump on Zwift tonight, but can't decide whether to try a workout or just ride....

Internet been a bit intermittent of late, so we'll see how it goes....once Three sort out the tethering block on my account that shouldn't be there, I'll probably use my phone as a hotspot.

I might stick my 'realism' up a notch tonight.....
When I fiddled with it the other day, it just seemed to be a slider. Is there anyway to set 50% or 60% exactly....? I'd rather be able to set it to a specific value, rather than just slide it a smidge left or right....

Planning to take part in the KISS race at 8 tonight, (STW) in the name of course

When I fiddled with it the other day, it just seemed to be a slider. Is there anyway to set 50% or 60% exactly

Weeksy- how's the injury? I was having big issues end of last year on my new roadie and when they started resurfacing on turbo I paid for a bikefit at weekend. I'm hoping it's going to be perfect from now on.

GolfChick - Member

Weeksy- how's the injury? I was having big issues end of last year on my new roadie and when they started resurfacing on turbo I paid for a bikefit at weekend. I'm hoping it's going to be perfect from now on

Not bad thanks. I had 5 days off along with then first day back easy, 2nd back a bit harder... Then 1 day off... Today is an On day... But still not going to be going for it. I've had the calves on ice most evenings and they're under compression cycling calf warmers all day... they don't give me any pain now.. but i can feel they're still not 100%. So tonight will be long and slowish. I'm thinking a max of about 200w type effort and 125bpm. Somewhere in there for 90 mins, then tomorrow off.

Bike fit... i'm all for it... But at £200 it's just not happening. Not for a bike i never actually take outside.. It could be argued it's more important than the ones i do take outside i guess... but i can't spend £200 on it.

try the bike fast fit app. i used it to get set up and seem pretty comfortable and its only £5

Sorry ? whats that then ?

http://bikefastfit.com/

Ah... i'd have to steal the wifes iphone... i don't do apple stuff.

But thank you 🙂

I'm about 2.6W/kg by the looks of it, which is not going to be particularly competitive in Cat-C if I get booted from Cat-D next time I race.

Same here. I've just done 2.7W/kg and got booted from Cat D, but I'm miles away from the Cat C leaders (10mins+)... wish there was a cat inbetween!

Same here. I've just done 2.7W/kg and got booted from Cat D, but I'm miles away from the Cat C leaders (10mins+)... wish there was a cat inbetween!

You'll be quite shocked... A lot of riders find themselves in the same place, a couple of short races in D, like a 16.2km ITT for example, soon sees you bumped up into C.... Then next thing you're a C and struggling.... But you'll find if you can hold 2.5-2.7 for a race distance over say 3 laps of Watoppia Flat, you'll be in a decent group of riders and hitting top 50% or so of finishers... you certainly won't be last that's for sure.

cheers_drive - Member

Zwift preferences will allow you to type it in a box, as well as other useful things like ride non schedules maps.

Cheers....

I've been meaning to fiddle with those zwifthacks.

I might try the map overlay too....

I use the map overlay and find it really handy for after I've finished a set route. Also like being able to glance and seeing a rough idea of the distance away the segment end is. I get annoyed moving it every time but I run dual acreens so it's tough luck.

Resisted the map hack so far but I was looking forward to riding box hill again but couldn't get on over the three days

It could be argued it's more important than the ones i do take outside i guess

Having said that, the turbo is also perfect for gradually tweaking bike setup, trying new saddles, stems, etc, which is what I've done to get it more comfortable.

All of today's KISS races are being run on the reverse courses! (Zwift asked them to test the new feature upgrade).

So the EU race at 8pm is 4x up the reverse KOM instead.....

That was fun!

https://www.strava.com/activities/850554073/segments/20731993958

Not sure if that will show the STW group as I'm on my mobile not laptop.

Star wars and an 8 year old babbling doesn't help!

Edit: grrrr was supposed to show start banner to mast times!

I'm bailing on the ZTR in favour of the BRS TT instead. Do I need BRT and BRS tags in my name or just one or the other? I've already linked my zwiftpower account to the BR Team.

Of course the STW tag will be there too.

https://www.strava.com/segments/11596934?filter=club&gender=both&club_id=244094

Have they changed the format or am i doing something wrong here?

No-it's working.

That's a BS segment anyway- nobody sensible would ride hard from the line- you'd at least rest until the turn off 😀
And in a Mountain race, you start from the pen not the line....

I didn't go hard from start line, but the line that starts the climb

I'm not saying you did but because it includes a section most people would never ride hard- it doesn't really reflect the climb 🙂