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How do people find the ramp test vs normal ftp? I failed to complete an FTP last time but found the ramp test more achievable, however 285 to 312W was a much bigger jump than i was expecting.
How do people find the ramp test vs normal ftp? I failed to complete an FTP last time but found the ramp test more achievable, however 285 to 312W was a much bigger jump than i was expecting.
Best thing is to forget the previous test and use the 312W as the benchmark for your next FTP test. I think a ramp test will tend to leave you high but is useful to establish a base level for future tests and improvements
Ramp test significantly overestimates my FTP, if I'm honest. But then again I'm lazy and reluctant to actually do the 20 minute one more than once in a lifetime.
I would have previously agreed with that but my last Trainerroad ramp test was -20w on the NP I’d been managing for 1h15 in real rides. So I ignored it and carried on training at my self assessed number.
I think whichever one you choose, you need to use it to help inform your training rather than treat it as gospel.
My highest ever ftp was after a 20min test and in hindsight I think I’d gone so deep that it wasn’t a true reflection of what I could do, because the next block of training was horrendous and I had to knock 10w off a couple of weeks later to get through workouts.
Found the one I was thinking of. An hour of 90 seconds Vo2 intervals followed by 30 mins Z2 had my HR at 155bpm/220w for the Z2. The Z2 ride earlier that week had me at 220w for 124bpm !!!
They are really effective sessions
what's the thinking behind this? is it just to add volume but in an effective zone? or is there some adaptation benefit of staying on after riding hard?
I'm sure I've heard about them talk about it in the TR podcast, probably Nate?
TBH, only the first 4-5 mins were really tough, after that i settled in at 144bpm and things seemed fairly OK.. I
yer i get that, i do 5 minutes easy after races but any longer and my minds wondering
I think the theory is something like, in the race you use up all your glucose/glycogen stores, so when you do a base level ride stright after you're doing it on empty... which helps with .... somethin 🙂
Yeah, i think in reality its probably more like 300.
Just seems odd that averaging 250/min (going from 100 to 400 in 16 mins) over the ramp test gives the same ftp as averaging 328W for 20 mins?
this podcast ep1, has info about zwift racing and plateauing
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-never-going-pro-podcast/id1471654841
I've plateaued without doubt, but doesn't change the enjoyment i get from the racing... Could i improve if i trained with a lot more structure, probably... but i wouldn't, because i'd have killed myself by the 2nd workout/session.
Racing on Zwift gives me something 'else' even if it's not the best training. I must admit, I'd like to get a gold again that's for sure. I'm missing trophies badly.... but tactically i'm struggling to work out what else to do in a race. For the first 1/2 i'm comfortable every race, but not that comfortable that i could be in the group ahead (if there is one, there often isn't) but after that 1/2 way point a ramp up in pace often kills me.
To date, I've found the Zwift Ramp Test overestimate my FTP by ~10% compared to 95% of a 20min effort.
I sometimes use it simply as a quick, low fatigue workout, it's far kinder than doing Emily's Short Mix based on my most recent 20min FTP figure.
Under normal circumstances, I can just complete the 400W interval on the ramp test, on a very good day outdoors having not done many efforts, I can just about average ~500W for 1min after focusing on 1min efforts for a few weeks.
Sadistically looking forward to some turbo sessions after a short break, but equally, the break has encouraged me to try and get a routine of daily outdoor 30min+ hill rep rides going again in this cool snap.
Just done my first group ride. It's to get me eventually into doing some racing. That's the ultimate goal.
I rode an E getup event. "Herd" I think it was.
It was bloody hard once it got into the mountains. Don't think I've been up a 14 % gradient before. Most of the race I was solo,couldn't hold on to the large groups. Did manage to get a bit of drafting from the odd passer by though!
Finished in the top 16% of my category or something it said?
Basically I was well happy as I wasn't last. Chuffed!👍
Not tried the ramp test or (a power meter outdoors). I only use FTP to guide power for training so I suppose it doesn't matter what you do as long as you are consistent. I know people who adjust their turbo vs. real world power zones accordingly.
I think I enjoy the FTP test but then I also like time trials and hill climbs so I'm probably an "outlier" on the fun graph.
I use the TR ramp test which is slightly different to the Zwift one I've seen. The step up is a percentage of current FTP rather than a fixes amount (assuming I've looked a the correct Zwift one previously).
Much prefer it to the 20 or 8 minute FTP tests as I'm unlikely to do those. I'd say it was fairly accurate when accompanied by doing TR workouts afterwards. They are hard and I sometimes have to knock a few % off or even pack them in but external stress factors are also affecting performance. When I feel fine I generally don't fail them.
My outside FTP doing a TT was within a few watts of the tested one albeit on a different Power Meter.
Consistently using the same protocol is a key element.
But also consider as above it won't suit everybody.
So this Zwift racing lark, how is it translating for you guys in real world events & rides?
I mean, like if you're averaging say 300W on a Zwift "ride" and that's a similar perceived effort (or even measured) how is that translating in pace on the road and off road (harder to judge), where are you positioning in race cats etc?
If not racing, but replicating power output, what are the average speeds, strava rankings etc as a method for real world measurement comparison?
Nice work Kryton 💪🏻 Even better as w/kg too no doubt
Cheers lol. I'm in weight loss mode at the moment so currently that's 8.8w/kg and at target weight it'd be 9.2w/kg. And that's the baseline for improvement.
Steveb_77 I've found my Zwift races to be under my real life comparable Watts which I attribute to the turbo heat / cooling / rolling resistance thing.
Of the few races I've done I've averaged about 3.3wkg but I'm about 3.7wkg outdoors in xco.
I'm faster and more powerful than I've ever been utilising consistent indoor use over last 2 winters on Zwift and Traineroad. I'm using racing this year to replace a session a week and hopefully keep interest in training longer into Spring rather than getting a bit bored by end of Feb.
I could really do with more volume but I don't have the time to consistently get outdoors for 4 hours.
Just racing will get you to a level but then you'll likely plateau and not get any faster
Got one of those bargain, Smart 43" Argos Hisense Ultra 4k tv's today. £249. Got to say, even sat near the screen the picture quality in 4k is bloody good. Fortunately the pc can run this res fine, Zwift is hardly state of the art graphics... The difference coming from HD is pretty stunning.
Combined with a £12 table from eBay and an el cheapo wireless keyboard and mouse.
I'm assuming you live alone Poopscoop?
My missus'd go bonkers at wallpaper like that 😀
That room is room 101. I'm allowed to go feral. Biking is just one of about 4 hobbies in there. If I showed you how much is packed into the room you might pass out.
I close the door when we have company...😆
Ramp test tonight 1 watt more than my best 20 minute effort in last weeks race.
Sorry guys, another daft question...
If I want to climb the Epic KOM, which is the shortest route to get to it? Want to have some energy left by the time I get to its start.lol
Thanks guys!
Choose the Pretzel I’d say. That will take you straight there from the main Watopia start/finish banner.
If I want to climb the Epic KOM, which is the shortest route to get to it? Want to have some energy left by the time I get to its start.lol
What trainer are you using? It isn't that bad for a climb as I have a Tacx Flux so it cant simulate the gradient so all that happens is the avatar goes very slowly whilst I pedal away but it isn't anywhere near as tiring as a similar gradient would be in real life (this is due to the trainer not the in game physics)
I've always used "Mountain" or the steeper "Mountain8" to climb up to the radio tower.
Debating event for today.
There's the 14:35 i can just about get home and kitted up in time for. Sand and Sequoias though which takes in the Titan climby bit and i struggle on massively.
There's also the 16:10 which is on the much flatter Tick Tock course, which suits me better, but is a chunk longer....
Which of my weaknesses do i pick to train today... distance or hill... Short and fast is far more 'me' .... but i guess training on my not strong suits helps....
If you get better going up this will help your flat work as well as flat is typical lower intensity.
Though to be fair so will getting used to going longer.
The titans rollers do give you the option to practice efficiency over the rollers. If you power up to a higher rpm as you hit the bottom before the incline kicks in you can often drift to the front of a pack without having to dig into to hard on the steeper bit. You can easily grab seconds worth of road doing that.
Ok, I need to beat 320w over 5 mins tonight and my physiological power is poor over this duration.
Any (general) tips other than imagine I'm going up a big hill?
Krypton, what I do is start off at my comfortable cadence, so about 88 to 90 and in the drops. Last two minutes I’d then go to the tops and use a slower cadence simulating a hill climb.
I’m on a Wattbike so it’s nice and easy to increase the resistance smoothly without losing power.
Not sure that’s an approved technique for a test though?
12,000 posts - that's an impressive topic Weeksy.
I bet you never expected that 3 years ago when you started it?
I only started it on the back of Crosshairs stuff it wasn't really meant to turn into the all encompassing Zwift thread, but i'm not unhappy with the fact it has. I've absolutely enjoyed seeing peoples results, both racing and training, the peaks and troughs that mirror my own experiences too day to day. Some weeks you're flying, then 2 weeks later you're 30w down getting dropped, but no idea why. It's a weird thing and i'm 100% sure in my own world i have no idea when these good/bad days are coming or why.
I'm still just as into Zwift as i was back when i first gave it a go, but back then there was less in the way of racing, now, you can get a race almost every 15 mins it seems. Just a question of picking one that suits your timings.
I've still not really done the training rides, structure etc, but that's not Zwifts fault, that's just me. But the racing gives me something to try for, something to push for and something of a goal... I want to find a sodding podium again that's for sure. But winter makes them harder as a load of racers turn up who've not raced for many months, add them to the newbies and you're stuffed in C.
People come in, do 3 races and get bumped to B.... but in them 3 races, they're too strong to stay with as a C.... it's common for sure.
@Kryton57 If I was targetting a specific power over a specific duration on the turbo in Zwift, I'd create a custom ERG workout in Zwift, starting with a warmup and then 5mins of 320W... You either succeed or fail!
You could do a ramp-step 5mins instead, starting just below your target at say 300W and then +10W every 1min, like it was a mini negative-split TT.
I wasn't targetting specific figures, but last winter I sometimes climbed the mostly steady gradient of Stelvio Pass in RGT, changing to the next hardest sproket every ~5mins to try and improve my 20min MAP... The longer I continued, the higher my 20mn MAP was, sometimes just managing to push myself beyond 25mins to exhaustion.
For those looking at structured training, a bit of feedback from me on one of the plans.
I'm currently doing the 4 week FTP Booster....But its going to take me longer than 4 weeks to complete, more likely to be 6 weeks. Just really doing it for a bit of structure and experience with a Zwift plan, not really expecting to make massive improvements but would still like to think there will be some.
There is only 1 rest day per week in the plan, which I understand why as its supposed to be intense and only lasting 4 weeks.
I started it on the 29th October and as of the 13th October I'm just about to do complete Week 2 day 2. This has included 2 outdoor rides in that time, as my group rides are fast (in relative terms) I always rest on the day before. The day after is also a killer as my legs are normally done in.
The workouts have been very do-able. Almost sweetspot. I've completed each one and each interval at the correct power/cadence. The second week appears to have just gotten harder. I am finding it a bit fatiguing doing 3 days back to back.
The plan is to complete this before the 10th December, take a good few days off, then start an FTP test week, ending in the FTP Test. Then start the crit crusher plan from January. With the January and February weather I'll be less inclined to go for a group ride on a Sunday and just use the trainer following the plan as close as possible. Hoping to be fit enough to race again next Spring. But I will need to do some fast groups rides towards March.
As mentioned previously I use a Wattbike Pro, probably should have bought an Atom, but I didn't. I'm still not 100% sure that the drafting is working for me. As an example during a ride yesterday (not training) I was doing over 3w/kg and the guys near me sat at 2.4, soon as I drop to their w/kg and wait for someone to go past I get dropped - back up to 3/wkg again and then I sit in the pack but with everyone else doing less power/kg. I'm on a normal carbon bike but have got the 50mm carbon wheels.
I've used Sufferfest for years, moved to Zwift just to freshen up my training. The workouts are very similar, but the different "view" and also the incentives are helping me keep motivated. Incentives being level up to unlock new bikes/wheels etc. Being a fairly newbie I'm only on Level 8.
what's your weight and height in Zwift ?
what’s your weight and height in Zwift ?
Now there's a question!! It should come with the caveat of what is your height and weight in the real world too 😉
LOL yes possibly.... but for example my 11 year old has massive issues with staying with people when drafting, because he's only 40 odd KG....so he's only putting out 120w, but that's 2.5w/kg... But sitting in a draft even though your W/KG is close, doesn't actually work as your actual W are so low.... Which could explain mateys ?
but that’s 2.5w/kg…
3w/kg, good grief he's doping already 😉
3w/kg, good grief he’s doping already
LOL i ought to check actually as i think the lowest weight Zwift allows was 45kg.. i'm not actually sure what he weighs currently.... But he's far from winning races due to stamina so it's no biggy.
I did notice the other day when 'helping' him for a lap on the La Guardia loop just how easy life is at 45kg in D... LOL... I could stick out 6w/kg at will just to pass time 😀
@w00dster if you drop to their wattages then they will be going faster because of the draft. You can be 2-3k down as they come past which causes an instant gap. You need to keep power higher so they slip past slowly and only reduce once you are in their draft. Same if your pack is trying to work hard. You keep the power up till the next rider rotates through and you've caught the draft.
Thanks Nixie. Will keep practicing the drafting. I guess it’s a balancing act that I’ve not yet mastered.
Weeksy, I’m 174cms and 69kgs. FTP is 252. I’ve had most of the year off, was still riding socially and not in anyway focused.
According to Strava summit I’ve increased my fitness 386% over the last 3 months. (Started training again in September)
because he’s only 40 odd KG….so he’s only putting out 120w
I was chatting with another parent at a CX race last weekend, I'd be intrigued to see what my eldest puts out, he's only 7 1/2 and weighs about 28kg but on his last crit race he averaged 28kph for the 20mins. Might stick him on the trainer and see what he gets.
I’d be intrigued to see what my eldest puts out, he’s only 7 1/2 and weighs about 28kg but on his last crit race he averaged 28kph for the 20mins. Might stick him on the trainer and see what he gets
I'm lucky that my lad can stick my 29er turbo wheel in as he's running a 27.5 frame. He can his 300-350w at his max, but over a race he'll average 120-130w. I don't know how much he loses through his rear suspension, but would be interesting if we could lock it out, which we cannot.
If I was targetting a specific power over a specific duration on the turbo in Zwift, I’d create a custom ERG workout in Zwift, starting with a warmup and then 5mins of 320W… You either succeed or fail!
Thanks - I have created the whole thing as a workout but the 6 x 10s sprints before can't be in ERG mode as I'd never turn the pedals. I'm just going to have to knuckle down in a big gear.
Meh. Sand and sequoias, usual story.
Went hard out the gate and first km and a bit, held the lead group, stayed in there for 10km and we had a small split. By the turn towards Titans we had 1min on the group behind.
How hard can it be to hold that. Well for me, impossible.
Ended up getting passed by loads and loads, finished 3 min behind lead C's. Meh, I'm bloody crap on hills. Love to know how/why!
Do you know your current Lactate Threshold Heart Rate @weeksy ?
I can't see your ride through the latest STW Strava rides, but I'd hazard a guess from your race report on Zwiftpower that the high power 90sec start compared to your 90 day best put you into the red and you never recovered, come the Titans climb your legs and heart were wrecked.
No idea. Never tested anything, ever.
But based upon common sense and previous racing I'd say 173-174 if that means, where can you hold without blowing yourself out the water.
Whilst the start was tough and fast, it wasn't until 10km in that I hit that HR at all.
Strangely, Mondays race I averaged 176bpm, today I only maxed at 175. Some days you have more than others I guess.
No biggy, all good fun.