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Pretty sure i'm a legit B a the moment.
I don't think i've ridden more than 20 minutes on the turbo for months. First race back was a bit of a rude awakening when i couldn't hold on to the A group on a flat ride 🙁
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=243185
Was going reasonably well* in that 50k volcano flat thing when i had to stop to answer a call from my boss, the bastard.
*Just about hanging on
FTP is 298 now from that, down from ~340 something before my shoulder incident
12:05 Volcano Flat 8 Lapper, with the front group for 4 laps, nearly got dropped lap 3, hung on then spat out lap 4, was 1:45 in front of the next group on the road, eased up and let them catch me, joined in, 10/15 riders, wasn't particularly fast, i think i could have held them off if id have tried judging by the lap times after i got caught, but thats not fun, tried to string it out at the beginning of lap 8 but it didn't work, regrouped, sprint for the line, i waited, then as soon as someone else went i followed, probably 300 odd metres out and i just held it, and won the sprint in the group i was in
5th in B - the 4 in front managed to stick with the front group
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=244320
currently in a script war with wahoo support.
supplied all the info the support website requests having followed the support website.....and stated as much
reply one directed me to the support website
reply two said do a factory spin down (impossible without speed or power)
reply three asked for the serial , the proof of purchase and shipping address - all supplied in my first email as thats what the support website asks for.....
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=244364
My lad had a go on the Bologna TT course. I've not done it myself and it's not on my list to attempt i have to admit. I thought he did pretty well though considering 🙂
Good effort from the wee man there!
I did same race..although in the link posted I appear to have moved up a few places from what the companion app told me.
Given my focus is going to be on tts next year discovering zwift tt events is going to be a pretty good way of getting in shape I reckon.
I’m always astounded by peoples ftp’s and w/kg
I thought I was fit... 50 mile fast road/gravel rides off the cuff. Multi day monster rides. Trail/mountain runner usually pushing top ten finishes, happy to race 100km mountain running races and run a lot of steep techy trails every week. Obsessive rock climber who trains regularly. Healthy diet etc etc
6ft and 80-82kg but... my ftp first time on the trainer this year is 228. I’m middle to low c class apparently and get totally burned in c class races by folk putting out 3.5-4w/kg!?
Am I doing something wrong? Or should I just sack off cycling as I’m clearly not designed for it
Hi Hooja, staying the obvious but I think zwift just brings together a lot of riders with different fitness levels.
I used to race and am using zwift to train to race again next year. I’m 47, 69kgs and 5 foot 8 with an ftp of 257. Aiming to get to 66kgs and ftp in excess of 280 for next spring.
I’ve only done 2 zwift races and got spanked in both. I’m a lower B, 3.5 w/kg average for my first race. Not raced for a couple of weeks as trying a 4w/kg training block. Tempted to race today and ditch the training for a day, will see how dead the legs feel later.
I also ride road and Mtb. Happy doing centuries off road and doubles on road. But I do think that’s completely different to zwift, which is really training for 1 hour races. I’m able to beat a lot of guys I race with in a 1 hour crit or a shorter road race but who are much better endurance trained than me and kill me on the longer rides.
Without wanting to be condescending a lot of the activities you do have little or no influence on your cycling fitness, certainly won’t help from a racing perspective. Most people putting out the high watts per kg will solely be cycling and training purely to increase their w/kg.
Definitely don’t give up on cycling, but just accept with you being an obsessive rock climber you won’t be as quick as an obsessive cyclist.
What do you call an off the cuff fast road ride Hooja?
My experience is that top of C cat / low B is a Cat 4 road racer. Top of B will be Cat 3 and most Cat 2’s or better will be A’s.
Because it has drafting- big guys with big ftp’s who are naturally disadvantaged cyclists outdoors can do better than they ‘should’. (Similar to real crit racing).
Especially if they stick to routes that suit them. Only once the climbs gets measured in minutes do they start to suffer.
I’m about the same height as you but weigh 94kg with an ftp of 305 currently. A flat, solo, tempo road ride outdoors would be 20mph for up to 2h. I consider myself to be a poor club level cyclist...
Get what your saying but I wasn’t expecting to be as quick as an obsessive cyclist, just not Expecting to be hitting an ftp of someone twice my age haha
It’s a bit demoralising
Average casual ride outdoors, these days, is usually 30 odd miles of backroad with around 3k ft of elevation at an average of around 15.5mph, on 45mm knobby tyres.
Think I’ll stick to outdoors and ignore this numbers malarky
Off the cuff fast road ride would mean, no prep, last minute decision and jump in the bike (I usually ride my gravel bike these days, as above) if on my road bike I can add around 2mph to the average.
I live in a very steep hilly area, no such thing as a flat ride round here.
@tpbiker ignore the companion app results. People with dumb trainers on there that distort results and it's even more wild west for peoples weights and heights etc.
Run the live link on ZP if you have another screen to see who you are actually racing. I'd really suggest trying a proper race as to me that'll be good TT training with long periods at VO2max and dips into Tempo plus plenty of time at your FTP.
@Hooja I run on the limit of the C class at 80kg and currently would generally expect to be in the top 5 fighting to win every race (except those with big hills). I'm basically just a cyclist FTP about 260 ish. Decent sprint and my 1 min and 5 min power is good for my FTP band which is key for Zwift races to hang onto surges or to make the group hurt. Then again I also generally pick races of 45mins or under as it suits my timescale. If you target some FTP growth training you'll probably find you can bump your FTP a good amount just from familiarity and cosistent training.
Ive just read about calibrating my trainer, didn’t realise I was meant to do that! At least I know I’ll be getting a more accurate result... probably even lower though haha
after much tooing and froing the outcome is im getting a replacement trainer and they are collecting the old one.
Looks like I'm riding in the real world this weekend.
Woo..... good news.
Hooja, what type of trainer do you have? I use to have a couple of wheel on trainers and the power readings were miles out, even with calibration. I now have a tacx flux and it's also not particularly accurate.
I take all my readings from my stages powermeter for zwift.
The other thing to bear in mind is that some folks put out less power indoors than out. I'm about 5% lower indoors I reckon.
But as has already been said, just putting in lots of miles won't increase ftp. Or at least it didn't for me. If you want to build ftp I reckon you need to base your riding around similar efforts. My ftp dropped throughout last season as I spend my riding time bimbling along in the sunshine, rather than flogging myself on the turbo as I did during the winter.
ill say one thing for the wahoo kickr - compared to my 4iiii crank power meter it puts out very similar numbers - when the kickr works of course 😀
My ftp dropped throughout last season as I spend my riding time bimbling along in the sunshine, rather than flogging myself on the turbo as I did during the winter.
it'll drop quick like that if you follow the sufferfests get rich quick plans on an unestablished (or as they say not required) base.
FWIW FTP isn't everything - i regularly ride with people that have high FTP / push high w/kg and even huge peak power according to zwift and they get thumped on the road by people who don't have such big power or FTP or w/kg. road craft and real world pacing goes along way
12:05 3R Greater London 8 Hilly for me today - another painful experience leaving me 12/19 in the B's. I held on to the front group at the start for the first few miles but when they ramped up the pace ascending Picadilly I just couldn't hold >400W for that long and ended up in a small group that slowly drifted out to be about 40 seconds down.
Naturally that group split on Box Hill in order of W/kg which was good for me, but having got into another small group I just didn't have anything left for the final sprint, and a few of them beat me over the line by 5-10 seconds.
So all in all pretty typical for my Zwift racing, but I was pretty staggered that one of the sprinters was a C. Looks like he's a big guy with good power but not the W/kg - he kept up with the front runners to Box Hill, I eventually caught him there, but on the final sprint he put out 600-700W for 20 seconds, which is well out of my league.
FWIW FTP isn’t everything – i regularly ride with people that have high FTP / push high w/kg and even huge peak power according to zwift and they get thumped on the road by people who don’t have such big power or FTP or w/kg. road craft and real world pacing goes along way.
I guess racecraft is my problem on Zwift, and maybe I need to work on good top end power for 30-60 seconds rather than just relying on W/kg for doing OK up the hills. Anybody got suggestions for how to train for that?
Don't get hung out to dry on the front but equally pre empt jumps so you don't get split in the reaction time between them jumping and you seeing it. Once you see it on screen it's too late you've lost draft.
@J-R Yeah that's Bath Salts he can easily hang with As and Bs on the flat and has big sprint power. Click through his profile and see how little he wins...
In reality he should probably be in B as he would appear to hold back massively to ensure he has big power when needed but come in under WKG.
On one hand he's either found a way to draft for very little effort (he appears to ride at about 60rpm) on the other he's found a way to cheat that can't be easily detected. All sorts of accusations of ebikes etc.
Not seeing your race but I would suggest trying to work on drafting skills and also be prepared to fail in a few to see how long you can really hold onto a group. Quite often it'll ease up but once you're out the back there's no getting back on a group of 5 or more without a massive effort which in reality isn't available at that moment.
Preempting rises at the right time to be either accelerating through the bunch or on the acceleration of others. Again easier said than done if you're already suffering.
All excellent points Tom
I’m always astounded by peoples ftp’s and w/kg
Genuinely fit, strong riders / inaccurate and/or uncalibrated trainers / weight dopers - take your pick. Zwift is littered with people putting out hilarious numbers - clue if you're running at 6 w/kg for 20 minutes and running a sitting with a heart rate of 120 then you just might not be legit.
On top of that FTP is only part of the equation even on Zwift. If you can recover from repeated hard efforts over threshold better than someone with an identical FTP then you can eventually break them by dragging them there repeatedly. If you have a better sprint you can out-sprint them, if you're cunning you can work out on what sort of terrain you have an advantage and ride accordingly etc.
I think ultimately you cant really know whether other riders' performance is accurate, but that's just how it is and if it really, really matters to you, you're probably in the wrong virtual place 🙂
ps: somewhere on DC Rainmaker is some stuff about high tec Zwift computerised cheating by basically manipulating the data you're producing in-line. I can't believe anyone would be sad enough to do that - or to use an e-bike, but people are weird.
So plugging away on the training programme at the moment, mainly to drop the KG bit of the w/kg equation.
All going well and enjoying it so much considering getting a cheap treadmill and having a go at running on Zwift, anyone had a go on it? Any thoughts?
Already run a bit, but outside I can't help but pootle along, so hoping a bit of structure there will help me get nearer former glories.
Wkg round 5 today, 111km race, 12 laps of Watopia hilly reverse. Never want to see that hill again, took me 3:20, from lap 5 onwards I struggled on KOM dropping back through the field. Settled in with a group of 6 for last 4 laps. On last lap I hit the KOM with all I had left, ended up being my quickest ascent of the day, averaged nearly 300W for 5 minutes and took a minute out of rest of group, in hindsight seems slightly pointless that much effort for 13th place.
Genuinely fit, strong riders / inaccurate and/or uncalibrated trainers / weight dopers – take your pick. Zwift is littered with people putting out hilarious numbers – clue if you’re running at 6 w/kg for 20 minutes and running a sitting with a heart rate of 120 then you just might not be legit.
exactly, check out this joker
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I've got no words!!!!!
Thanks for the all comments guys, especially about putting the effort in to hang on a bit longer because it will ease up, and about knowing where to accelerate up the short hills wear the breaks occur.
ultimately you can't really know whether other riders’ performance is accurate, but that’s just how it is
This is true. IRL there are always people who are a lot better than you, and so what if on Zwift some of them may not be completely legit - you can only race against what you see and against yourself.
Quick question guys!
I'm just doing a 15 mile free ride every other day at the moment just trying to get a bit fitter and lose weight. So far so good on both counts. Learning a lot about the HR I can sustain and the watts too.
When I get to a point I won't be last in D group every time I'll start doing a bit of racing...
Anyway. The question. How long do you guys warm up before a ride and at what sort of wattage? In my dumb mind I kind of don't like warming up as it feels like a "waste" of entry. Though I know that's patently rubbish.
So what do you guys do before a group ride or race? 5 to 10 mins? What sort of cadence/wattage?
Thanks guys.
@poopscoop Anything from 60mins of easy spinning to literally no warm up at all.
I think from a performance viewpoint, anything too fancy or long has little science to back it up. Mentally: working up gradually to one or two race pace efforts helps perhaps.
Optimum for me indoors seems to be 20mins easy spinning. Gets all the equipment warmed up and gives me time to settle in and double check everything without wasting sugar 😉
Cheers crosshair for the reply!
Try to do 20 mins before a race. Start easy then build it up to around 75% by five minutes or so. Then cruise at constant pace for a bit. I then do some over FTP (120-150%) spikes at high cadence (110-130rpm). Maybe 3-5 of those in increasing time (up to around 30s). Then easy last 3-5 minutes at 75%ish.
A winter challenge for anyone needing something to go after over winter:
3 laps of Watopia flat, TT bike. See what time you can do. A segment has been made: add TheChasersCollective on Instagram to see others’ times.
I did a 45:21 tonight and will be trying to improve on that as winter progresses- it’s very hard to hold watts on the slight undulations, dirt, and other distractions! It’s a different challenge to races or even workouts. Bit of fun, give it a go- it’s about each person bettering their time, not racing each other!
nixie
Subscriber
Try to do 20 mins before a race. Start easy then build it up to around 75% by five minutes or so. Then cruise at constant pace for a bit. I then do some over FTP (120-150%) spikes at high cadence (110-130rpm). Maybe 3-5 of those in increasing time (up to around 30s). Then easy last 3-5 minutes at 75%ish.
My worry about doing that mate is that by the start of the group ride /race or wherever is I'll already be spent.lol
You’d think that poop but you’d be surprised- people think they’re burning matches but it’s not the case. Depends on the individual obviously but try different things and see which one feels best. The main idea is to get the heart rate up and legs used to the idea of working hard- it’s also hugely mental- getting in the zone and telling yourself it’s about to hurt!
Warmup makes it hurt less. No dramatic change in performance I find but it does make it more pleasant.
If I have time generally 15 minutes spinning at say 40 to 50 % FTP with some over FTP short efforts. Regularly get maybe 3 to 5 minutes just spinning due to time constraints and computer issues.
For you I'd say get into the habit of doing 10 to 15 minutes of 50% or a bit less of FTP. If it's a race add in some (2 or 3) higher power sprints of up to 20 seconds.
No science but I agree if you don't feel you have the power to waste don't, do try and get the body moving beforehand though as the sprint out of the gate is a good possibilty of straining something. Been there in the past plenty of times when not fit but wanting to race (pre Zwift),
Also as discussed a page or 2 back try and do another 15minutes after a session at whatever you can manage but 50% FTP or under. If it starts out really low straight after a race just do that. Will help long term.
Oh and also what the others said above. Everyones different in their needs but do try and do something.
@poopscoop the idea behind the high cadence to get the higher power is that it takes less out of your muscles than the same power but pushing hard. The intervals should be short enough that it's not really hurting you. Just enough to get the heart pumping properly and legs loosened. I find I can be spinning around 85rpm.and finding it difficult but after a few spikes to 120+ the cruising spin comes easily. Also in races if you can produce that extra power to close a gap from a short high cadence burst it doesn't seem to take as much out of your legs.
The start of races definitely hurt me more if I've only been able to do 5-10 mins warm up. On the London routes with lead in this has meant I've been dropped on the ramp from the river to roundabout.
@zissou sounds interesting. Think I may take a look at that.
Not really adding much to the party here, but I’ve got a smart turbo trainer as an early Christmas present...I’m absolutely loving Zwift, I’ve don’t more activities in the past 4 days than the past month.
Only done workouts so far, but at some point I’ll join a group ride or race.
Only problem is I’m using an old mountain bike that I couldn’t sell for £100, how long before I get competitive and buy bigger gears etc?
Hilly race for me today, 10:40 Team ZWC Hill Climb Battle - Watopia Mountain 8 went up the KOM reverse, had planned on forwards, only ever done the reverse once, thought ill do 20 minutes as hard as i can and recover on the down and try and chase anyone down on the flat, which is sort of how it went, did about bang on 300w for 20 minutes up the climb, kept 3/4 B's in sight, about 10 seconds in front, knew id be able to bridge on the downhill, then it went right up to the radio tower, and i was shot, power dropped and the 3/4 got away, over a minute, long gone, got passed by another B and a couple of C's, but then had fun on the down and flat chasing them down, got 2 of the C's on the downhill and hauled another in on the flat, who stayed with me for a couple of km, but i kicked with 400m to go and he couldn't follow, couldn't catch the B, was 30 seconds in front, decent workout, last of 6 in B on ZP but they were not very far down the road,
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=246906
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=246940
La Guardia for me, 6 lapper.
End of lap 5 me and another guy lost the wheel of group and that was that. We got caught near the line and both lost a place or 2.... but worked VERY hard and as requested by the STW training experts i stayed on for 12 mins at 50-60% FTP and did the fatigue training.
Dead now !
@mtbqwerty assuming you're not a monster you should be fine. Although if it's a singlering 30T maybe not ;0) I ran an old triple with 42x11 which was nowhere near maxed out on cadence.
LOL @weeksy I don't think many/any are claiming to be experts ;0) It just seems to be consistent advice from various sources. Your power looks like it's coming back too.
Expert enough for me mate. I'll take that.
Power was decent yes, but that 4-5% to the line hits me hard, I averaged 176bpm for race with my max ever being 184, so almost flat chat all race lol
Back in training for me. Used Zwift as the workout course for a 30s test. After 3 1000w activation sprints and a 550w “80%” effort I thought I’d flunk the test, but 7 mins of recovery later and I averaged 692w beating my prior record. Felt a bit sick at the end.
On Wednesday is where it all starts to go wrong for my power profile - the 5 min test.
Lol that's massive !!!!
692W! Ouch. Nice work.
Nice work Kryton 💪🏻 Even better as w/kg too no doubt 😎
@weeksy Well done 👏🏻 Keep a note of the HR/wattage. The same power will get easier as time goes on in which case you know you’ve bumped up your ftp and you can go harder still 🤣
I find the TR version of that idea incredibly rewarding to complete. Hardest Z2 you’ll ever do!!!
TBH, only the first 4-5 mins were really tough, after that i settled in at 144bpm and things seemed fairly OK.. I wasn't working in ERG etc so the power was up and down, but was trying to keep it consistently in the 140-160w bracket. Strava actually states about 170 if i look at that section on the graph.
May need a slightly longer race then to really empty the tanks.
Found the one I was thinking of. An hour of 90 seconds Vo2 intervals followed by 30 mins Z2 had my HR at 155bpm/220w for the Z2. The Z2 ride earlier that week had me at 220w for 124bpm !!!
They are really effective sessions 💪🏻