Also if you want events that are set off by category only then look on the ZP events list and use the filters.
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php
Are the anti-sandbagging races worth doing - in the sense that they give a steadier race? Been meaning to try one - there's a 12 lap crit on at 4 Dolphin direction.
Not done many, on the one where I got coned it didn't seem to slow me that much 😎
Also not gonna stop people weight doping.
Cheers savoyad, signed up.
Ive done a couple of anti-sandbagger grits. The first one it seemed to have quite a big affect and conned riders dropped off the group quickly, but the last one i did it seemed to make no difference and the conned riders just rode round with us all the way to the finish and won so not sure if they're still trying to get it working properly.
but the last one i did it seemed to make no difference and the conned riders just rode round with us all the way to the finish and won so not sure if they’re still trying to get it working properly
that's because the out of cat riders are no longer B entering C, they're A entering C knowing they'll get coned but still win.
Has anyone else had the invite to the " FutureWorks Boost Mode" races? If anyone fancies I've entered the 6pm tomorrow. Sounds like a disastrous idea for a crit from the marketing blurb but we'll see...
I've just seen the BoostMode email and proposed idea. For messing about with your friends it might be okay, but it appears to be making it very "game" like, which I don't believe is going to appeal so much to people who are racing. There are already enough issues with weight/power as it is.
Dangeourbrain Ah yeah that makes sense pesky A's....just had that email myself, if i can get home in time i'll have a go just out of curiosity if nothing else.
appears to be making it very “game” like, which I don’t believe is going to appeal so much to people who are racing. There are already enough issues with weight/power as it is.
I'm in two minds on that, depending on how it works it might well mean that weight is less of an issue. It might not of course.
Equally it could make the racing less game like rather than more lets face it almost all zwift racing is a sprint followed by a TT, the break away never looses and doesn't even work that much more than the chasing pack, which is about as far from most real races as possible.
Either way though it is a game, and not a simulation, I think that gets lost to a lot of people when they start racing. I wonder if FIFA soccer or wii tennis get the same grief for not being realistic.
*not to say I don't think cheating is a problem and could do with addressing a bit more but equally the method of cheating isn't exactly insidious, the whole thing relies entirely on the honesty of faceless people on the Internet which is going to mean a lot of people cheat.
You are messing with the C cat races by entering them as you are too strong for them. Yes you’ll likely get beaten by 90+kg C races in flat events and Crit City.
How do you work out I'm too strong for a c cat? I'm bursting my ass and not winning, so I don't think that's true at all. If it was then I'd win all the time.
Simple fact is zwift racing massively favours bigger riders, and dare I say fatter overweight riders in many cases. Power to weight is largely irrelevant on anything but a decent climb, it's all about ftp, as you point out when you mention I'll get beat by a 90 kg rider every time. Given my ftp, the most important factor in determining speed on flat courses, is lower than many of the c racers, I'm struggling to see how I have any advantage. It's absolutely ridiculous that for the benefit of zwift racing I'd be better just eating a ton of pies and putting on weight, as my power to weight would go down.
Ultimately as long as I'm paying my subscription, and as long as zwift keep the widely acknowledged stupid cat criteria, then I'll continue to race as a c in flat races, as I find it more fun. When I eventually win one I may move up, but until that point I dont see I have any advantage whatsoever over the other racers. Besides, its not even real. So anyone who thinks its unfair should take up proper racing if it's that important to them.
It’s absolutely ridiculous that for the benefit of zwift racing I’d be better just eating a ton of pies and putting on weight, as my power to weight would go down
Not really, thems the rules. Just like racing outside you may find your self in an arbitrary age or gender category.
You pays your money mind and you takes your choices but that it isn't the same as racing isn't a failing, its just what the game is.
Besides, its not even real. So anyone who thinks its unreasonable should take up proper racing if it’s that important to them.
The anti-sandbag crit was pretty good - small field of 23, dropped a few stragglers and then just one group of 20 motoring around. Everyone doing legit B power and pace was generally steady below my threshold, with spiking up the rise and round to the rollers.
At least that's what the numbers said, unfortunately my legs were in disagreement and it felt like a very hard effort just sitting in (actually not done a 12 lap crit before). The group kicked on the 10th lap and I got shelled on the rise - no secondary gp to form up so just rode in easy.
Defo one to try again with fresh legs, but prob the 8 lap is better for me.
At least that’s what the numbers said, unfortunately my legs were in disagreement and it felt like a very hard effort just sitting in (actually not done a 12 lap crit before). The group kicked on the 10th lap and I got shelled on the rise – no secondary gp to form up so just rode in easy.
It's always slightly disappointing when you ride what feels like a good race then see your numbers and realise you were way off. Blame the heat I say.
I've signed up for a 10 lap tomorrow, not sure how that'll go. If I'm on form I'll either get spat or the back about lap 9 or surprise my self, hold on to lap 10 and end up [s] racing [/s] entering A in future.
Not really, thems the rules. Just like racing outside you may find your self in an arbitrary age or gender category.
Nope.. outside I'd be racing against people of similar ability based not on one random and fairly irrelevant element of performance (w/kg) , but by points accumulated. I wouldn't race in a real life second cat if every week I got shelled out on the first lap would I?
Of course I could get fitter, but then I'd be up to the A cat and take even more of a battering!
I wouldn’t race in a real life second cat if every week I got shelled out on the first lap would I?
Are you being shelled on lap one of B? Are you consistently finishing last by a big margin?
arbitrary age or gender category.
Nope
Are you racing against 6 year olds?
Are you racing a mens/ladies only race?
Those categories are just as arbitrary, some kids would kick my arse, some women too, but I don't race against them because that's the rules.
In zwift the rule is its w/kg. Whether that's more or less relevant than the colour of your bike, how old you are or where your dangly bits are doesn't matter. That's the rules of zwift, like no draft on a TT bike or that you are allowed to race on a magic tron bike or "without a helmet", that disc wheels are a good idea on an hour long hill climb, no wind or altitude etc.
It's important to remember....
- IT'S NOT REAL
It's just a way to make the turbo less shit.. 🙂
So where are we up to with entries for this Thurs evening ?
I'm debating 2 short Crits today at 9am if i'm not needed for Thurs.
We're showing 5 so fill yer boots weeksy
I hope this doesn't scupper Weeksy's plans - but I need to pull out of the TTT tomorrow.
Apologies, I've had my arm twisted by the boss to join her on a real ride. Apparently riding on a turbo in the garage on one of the warmest evenings of the year 'is just weird'!
Well it could easily be seen as a rubbish result LOL.
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=904741
But, to be only 10s off the winner of B is brilliant for me. Not sure what happened to the other 15 riders who were behind me on the road. 🙂 Power wasn't bad and it was only after the final dolphin kick that i lost the wheel and group to the line as they all found 10w/kg for the run-in. So pretty happy.
Race 2 went better than i expected actually, bit more rolling and lost the group at 1km from the end, but again, more than happy with that.. I'm not a great B and in this race i got dropped by 2s at one stage with 8km to go and pinned it and clawed it back to the group, which is unknown for me !!! Normally once i go, i'm gone. This time was on the 2% slog, it's only 2% but the extra weight and watts makes all the difference, so i was shelled and rolled home.
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=904745
10s out and or holding the group is a good result weeksy.
Good effort.
Apparently riding on a turbo in the garage on one of the warmest evenings of the year ‘is just weird
Don't tell her, but she's right.
How do you work out I’m too strong for a c cat? I’m bursting my ass and not winning, so I don’t think that’s true at all. If it was then I’d win all the time.
Because those are the rules of the game.
Assuming that is your profile on ZP I linked to you are a B bordering on an A in TTs.
If you are looking and relying on the Zwift game results they are complete and utter rubbish as there are so many out of category and dumb trainer races they are meaningless.
Look at your times and if you'd raced in B on ZP you'd be comfortably top half IIRC. Develop your drafting technique. Buy better bikes and wheels. Develop your 1minute power and recoverability from efforts and you'll be battling for B race wins rather than winding up the C races just because you can cruise into the top 3. Which on ZP results you are doing easily. On Zwift results you'll be getting hammered by A cat races in C.
If the live tab is working on ZP for the event you can keep track of the actual people who you are up against.
In real life if you weigh 60 kg and race cat 2 against a 90kg cat 2 rider the likelhood in flat crits you'll get destroyed by them. Same on Zwift. Although there are enough courses with small hills to try and get rid of them.
And looking again at those results you've only done 4 mass start races. 3 at Crit City which really isn't going to suit a new racer as they are brutal and a long flat one which you won the C category. The 3rd place was minutes behind. If you'd raced B and made the effort to stick with the next group you'd have been in the podium group for B.
because you can cruise into the top 3. Which on ZP results you are doing easil
I've done 5 cat c races and 2 cat b races. The b races I was shelled out back in first mile having failed to hold 350 watts. Of the 5 cat c races I've had one 3rd place, my only podium finish. And im not sure why you think I am cruising? I'm having to bust my balls to get that result.
a long flat one which you won the C category. The 3rd place was minutes behind. If you’d raced B and made the effort to stick with the next group you’d have been in the podium group for B.
Not sure who you are looking at but I've never won a race. I've done one long one last weekend, I came 3rd, my best ever result. I was minutes down on the winner, and miles off the podium places at b level. From looking at the b results I would have come 17th out of 24, and was over 3 min down on a podium spot.
Anyways, as I've said the zwift cat system sucks so im happy to keep doing what I'm doing. I doubt it impacts on anyone else, as I'm not influencing the race to any degree, and if someone gets upset about it then im pretty ok with that tbh.
@tpbiker Do you mind me asking what your weight/power are?
I doubt it impacts on anyone else, as I’m not influencing the race to any degree
FWIW if you really did need to be holding 350w for over 2 minutes then the most likely reason is people doing exactly the same as you, A to B
New worlds coming!
No doubt to try and keep the COVID masses subscribed through the summer, when they might like to put 3/4 months of subs towards a pair of nice outdoor tyres! 😆
Says professional use, hopefully afterwards they will open to the masses! Exciting!
but I need to pull out of the TTT tomorrow.
Apologies, I’ve had my arm twisted by the boss to join her on a real ride. Apparently riding on a turbo in the garage on one of the warmest evenings of the year ‘is just weird’!
Daft question, am I alone in thinking Mrs Phil has the right idea?
I've been invited to a real world ride Tomorrow and before I say yay or nay thought I'd best check if I'm the only one thinking a night on the mtb sounds like a good option...
Happy to come along and to do my turns on the front of people want to do the TTT but don't want to turn up and we all say "I wanted to go out but thought I should stay IN"
I could easily give it miss to go out IRL...
I’m still up for it as I’ve been really enjoying the TTTs, and haven’t got an outdoor ride lined up yet, but if people want to skip this week that’s cool, it is going to be bastard hot!!
but if people want to skip this week that’s cool,
As I say, happy to come along but I'll be cross if it turns out we're all miserable because [s] it's 40°[/s] we'd all rather be outside doing something else but felt the obligation. Like Christmas dinner with the family.
Do you mind me asking what your weight/power are?
I'm 66kg and on the turbo last time I tried I could hold 264 watts for an hr. So bang on 4w/kg as an ftp indoors.
It was well hot in the pain cave at 7am this morning, I don't envy any of you on the TT this evening!
It'll be fine. It will not make it over 30 degrees in my office. It will not. It will not. IT WILL NOT.
I'm going to ride outside today.
If numbers do dwindle too low, don't worry I'll get an entry in so normal service can resume next week.
High guys think I'm going to join the outside ride club and swerve tonights TT also.
Am I imagining things or was there a recent thread on gearing for MTBs?
Im thinking of taking my road bike of the trainer and putting a now largely worthless 29er on. Just trying to figure out a cheap way of getting appropriate gears for the job.
Currently had a compact up front and an 11-28 on the back on the current Zwift bike.
MTB currently has a completely inappropriate 1x10 gearing, the cranks do at least take a 2x set up. No idea if they take big enough chainrings however.
MTB currently has a completely inappropriate 1×10 gearing, the cranks do at least take a 2x set up. No idea if they take big enough chainrings however.
I'm using my commuter which is an old 29er hardtail, I'm running a 36 48 on an xt double with a road block and its ample for 95% of zwift, can come up short on sprints when I reach the top of my cadence but to be honest even then I'm not often hitting that.
I do sit in 48:11 most of the time so 50 or 52 might encourage me to push a bit harder but equally I might just not use the top gear then.
Straight wheel optional.
Which case I'm going to follow suit and "join" folks outside.
Do you have sandbags under the Lynskey for when in inevitably snaps in half? 👺
I’m using my commuter which is an old 29er hardtail, I’m running a 36 48 on an xt double with a road block and its ample for 95% of zwift, can come up short on sprints when I reach the top of my cadence but to be honest even then I’m not often hitting that.
I do sit in 48:11 most of the time so 50 or 52 might encourage me to push a bit harder but equally I might just not use the top gear then.
Bearing in mind I can’t stay with you in the sprints that should be fine.
Ill go check my drivetrain, see what I can get away with. Definitely would need some chainrings and likely a front mech. Hmmm.
I swapped to my cross bike on the turbo which has a 38 oval single ring and it's been fine - surprised me, although I am down the block pretty much all the time.
Can spin up a decent sprint on it - it's a bit too small to be putting up heroic numbers on a group ride, but for racing it is more than fine. I just do the short races and they're at such a high pace, and the sprint wound up from way out, that you never get to sit in easy and unleash hell in a 10 sec sprint.
It's way more sustained than that - at least that's my experience, perhaps if you're at the top of your cat you would be able to thrown down a very sharp effort and would want a big ring.
Do you have sandbags under the Lynskey for when in inevitably snaps in half? 👺
😯
No, i found the trainer walked across the room when I was sprinting or pulling up a hill. Turns out 50kg of left over sand fixed it, which was nice as I had no idea what else to do with it.
no worries, we can skip the TTT this week then and resume normal service next week post-heatwave!Which case I’m going to follow suit and “join” folks outside.
Don't forget you can change the trainer difficulty as well. it is really virtual gearing so if you increase it to 100% if you only have a small cog on the front it should help stop you from spinning out (it doenst make it easier or harder as you still have to output the wattage).
I’m 66kg and on the turbo last time I tried I could hold 264 watts for an hr.
With those numbers you might struggle in a crit but you should be putting out more on a 20 minute race than an hour and even then it's not impossible to compete in crits at that.
At 264 in a decent length race, anything with a hill, you should do reasonably well in B.
Looking at my last few races...
36 minute race on volcano climb. I was 311w and 9th. 8th put out 265w average, 279 in 7th and 284 for 4th.
6 people in that race were over 300W, 2 of those were a little over cat limit.
Bologna TT I was 21st @324w in an E race, 2 people ahead of me in that race had <260w, 10 to 20 finishers below 300w.
8 lap crit city I was 9th at 318.1st and third both a touch under 300w. 6 to 20s under 270w.
Previous crit I was 32nd at 306w. 3 finishers ahead of me at <270 including 2nd at 268w.
I doubt I’ll TTT tonight, just too hot for Turbo 🥵
Ok, decision made: TTT IS OFF TONIGHT.
Enjoy the sunshine. See you next week for Volcano Flat.
See you next week for Volcano Flat.
Sounds hot!
Would have been appropriate this week
Not sure who you are looking at but I’ve never won a race
This would appear to be your profile on ZP but you haven't registered.
https://www.zwiftpower.com/profile.php?z=25412
What results are you looking at.
As said quite a few times if they are Zwift results from the APP they are utter rubbish.
You've been DQed on ZP for being in the wrong category but your time is in the filtered tab.
Put those on the race cat you entered and you won one of the races as suggested.
In Crit City you have to go very very hard to hold onto the front group in any category.
I wasn't suggesting you were cruising just 3minutes behind on a long race isn't much and putting in more effort earlier to stick with people would have paid off with a chance with a higher placed group.
Hadn't spotted the Alpe race on that profile.
You won the C cat by 5.5 minutes
You'd have been 13th in B cat out of 35 proper B cat racers.
Hmm, I’ll set it up as it is and work from there.
Might plug a few things into a gear calculator too.
Well, I at least have a functioning road bike.
And a 1x10 29er of questionable assembly quality
Got out for a faff about in the woods on my mtb which was good.
Hope everyone enjoyed the weather. Indoors in this would have been awful
I got owned tonight On the TTT. Due to people dropping out I entered our A team as a Sub, which includes a County TT champ. I was way out of my league, and everyone knew but I was making up the numbers in a team of 4. Also my man cave was 37 degrees
Halfway through with an average 3.9wkg and some pulls at 5.5wkg I couldn’t take it any more, stopped, had a couple of minutes rest and completed the course doing solo one on, one off Z5 intervals. Kudos to the guys, they finished strong.
Im not discouraged, I was clearly above my station and did average my highest 10 mins at 4.2wkg and matched my ftp, All of which is at my weakest point of my power curve.
My God. The fans, they do nothing!
That felt like the hardest TTT I've done, hot as balls. Didn't feel like I went over the climb especially hard but was absolutely under water after it for around 10 mins.
Managed to hang on as we were 7 deep this evening, and the legs slowly perked up so finished it OK. 42.38 for us at the line.
Sounds like a strong effort Kryton in a fast 4 - need to go very deep to hang in a small group like that.
^^^^^
The STW squad?
Hadn’t spotted the Alpe race on that profile.
You won the C cat by 5.5 minutes
You’d have been 13th in B cat out of 35 proper B cat racers.
I have No idea what you are looking at, if there are some alternative results out there I don't know about them and don't use zwift power to check retrospectively.
All I know is I've done the alp race and came 5th in the Cs (just checked). No idea why is be showing as first anywhere. I assume because they aren't registered on zwift power maybe?
You say the zwift results don't count, but given they are the only ones I look at that's what I take my results from. I like racing the folks during the game, I don't care if I get a win on zwift power later because half the field hasn't registered.
You say the zwift results don’t count, but given they are the only ones I look at that’s what I take my results from. I like racing the folks during the game, I don’t care if I get a win on zwift power later because half the field hasn’t registered.
BUt that's the whole point of Zwiftpower mate. In Zwft races you're racing against people who finish a C race with an average of 5w/kg. They're not Cs, they're As racing out of Cat. You're equating it to real-life, but if you turned up at a Cat 4 and were soundly beaten up a hill by a Cat A, you wouldn't say "oh well, that's racing", you'd complain they were allowed to race.
Well Zwift doesn't stop people racing, but Zwiftpower retrospectively kicks them out of the 'true' results. They're not necessarily kicked out on Zwiftpower because they're not registered, but because they're racing in the wrong Cat.
I had a long post typed, realised it feels a lot like we're picking on TP so moving swiftly along...
On a related subject, anyone fancy the 17.45 crit city this evening?
It'll be very warm...
They’re not necessarily kicked out on Zwiftpower because they’re not registered, but because they’re racing in the wrong Cat.
But Tom says I came first in a c race once on zwift power. Zwift says I came 5th. Surely I'd be disqualified like the 4 guys in front of me?
Either way I just had a look and can't see any of my historical results in zwift power.
You did.
You have to dig about as you are DQed on ZP. I've explained it all up there.
I know it's utterly ridiculous that you have to look at a separate website not officially associated with Zwift but that is where the results are that actually put you against people you should be racing. Race your heart out against the people on the road but to pick a category use the one ZP give you and your FTP leads you towards and accept that you will probably never "win" on Zwift as there'll be someone pulling 5+ wkg on a dum trainer.
You will get so much more out of the racing, espeically bunch races, if you register on ZP and do a bit of reading of the rules.
One day Zwift might enforce category selection with the data they have.
Yes WKG is a flawed system but you are actually competitive in B races against the actual B racers. Not the sandbaggers who enter the wrong category.
I can relate to TP. I’ve won C’s, then I’ve been off the podium by rider doing 90 minute at 5wkg in C. I’m racing to top 10-15 B in the longer races, but you can still see A’s and A+ entering for the podium.
They are cheating themselves, I prefer to take the moral high ground and focus on my performance markers for my training purposes, after all I’m an MTB endurance racer not a Zwift crit champion.
You were first in C on this race.
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=896535
On the filtered tab your time is 1:31:27 1 second up on the official C winner.
You'd have been 13th in B.
IMO with the power you can hold for Bologna you could probably stick with the next B group who fnished 1:28:20 and were 2nd to 10th. Maybe you'd be cooked by the end and have come 10th but next time you might be a bit stronger or a better racer and be in the mix for 5th.
That 3 minute gap is not much over that length of race. Not one you'd be able to bridge but one you could possibly stick with early on before the groups split and you made sure you were on the right side of that split.
No-one fancying the crit this evening then?
I just tried the 16:00. I lasted only a few mins. Just way too hot in there I'm afraid
Sweet baby weeksy and the motorbikeicleists that was hard!
[edit] three pb laps[/edit] 16th on the road. Ftp increase which isn't ideal so think I'll be on for DQ and bump on zp. I was mixing with the front up to the final lap so misjudged that a bit, not enough left in the tank to pull with everyone on lap 8. Ended up too late with the surge at the end so only picked up a few places to the line.
[2nd edit] 9th on zp. Winner of B was 71kg @291/w, 8th was 280w and 70kg TP so it is do-able. That said there was a chap at 108kg pulling 421w average in 3rd...[/edit]
I wouldn't be surprised if everyone under 20th got DQ'd. Lots and lots of big numbers all the way around there.
New update has dropped....new routes including France and Paris.
Unfortunately they are event only for now from the feedback I've seen, hopefully after the virtual TDF they will open to all.
I've heard there is meant to be a Mont Ventoux included
Be good to get to race on a few new courses at least. Though I imagine Paris will just be another crit course to all intents.
Zwift so needs to introduce something equivalent to RGT's auto-power/speed brake on bends, so we have to accelerate back up to racing speed on anything but shallow corners.
So needs to introduce wind influence too.
Looks like I might have to set the road bike up on the turbo today after the ongoing overnight rain, can't see the roads drying up... First time in over a week, making excellent use of a second consecutive monthly sub! 😆
I'm excited for Ventoux! IRL steeper than most trainers go right? Wonder if they'll tweak it slightly?
Paris should be fun as well as short course like Crit City but even more flat, which should be bonkers, draft-and-sprint-tastic!
I'm not sure the Paris sprint course will be much flatter than the existing crit course, IRL it has a surprising amount of climbing in it.
Speaking of crits (shoehorn alert) I've just bagged a podium on the 1545hrs Crit City cat C. I'm honing my "do as little as possible for as long as possible then go for a surprise long sprint" technique quite well!
Well I've entered my first Cat A, the 18.00 ZHR hare and hounds for today. Two laps of tempus fugit so pancake flat which really isn't my strength and it's double draft so I'll be dead in the water as soon as I lose the wheel in front. I think I shall be pleased just not to get lapped.
Wish me luck.
Or come along and laugh.
Unfortunately they are event only for now from the feedback I’ve seen, hopefully after the virtual TDF they will open to all.
Apparently 7 new courses have appeared in the badge section, which implies post-TDF they will be. Would be good to see some maps but I haven't found any yet.
IRL steeper than most trainers go right? Wonder if they’ll tweak it slightly?
I thought the default setting for the perceived gradient was 50% of the actual though? (e.g. mine goes up to 12% which on default settings is in-game 24%)
I thought the default setting for the perceived gradient was 50% of the actual though? (e.g. mine goes up to 12% which on default settings is in-game 24%)
I'm really not sure about the difficulty thing, the default 50% certainly feels a lot steeper on shallow gradients than riding outside. That said the 15%+ sections are a lot easier. If I had to I'd guess it's on a curve rather than a flat 50%.
(on the one occasion I set mine to full the incline out of the watopia tunnel felt like hitting a brick wall, I did seem to be having trouble with the turbo over the next few days though)
Normally have the gradient slider on max (although nudge it down for certain races so I can do the whole thing in the big ring), lots of higher end trainers e.g. Neo simulate up to 25% which is bloody steep. Really pumped for these new routes & the presumed vTDF!
dangeourbrain
Subscriber
Well I’ve entered my first Cat A, the 18.00 ZHR hare and hounds for today. Two laps of tempus fugit so pancake flat which really isn’t my strength and it’s double draft so I’ll be dead in the water as soon as I lose the wheel in front. I think I shall be pleased just not to get lapped.Wish me luck.
Or come along and laugh.
I've just entered cat C so I'll no doubt see you go flying past at some point.
Why are there no tt events showing today?