Glad you're not too badly damaged!
I'm in assuming still needed. Terry Davidson (stw)
As I've not seen it mentioned above were on for 4.5 min delay tomorrow folks so another short one.
👍 Make sure you get on the discord channel if not on already!I’m in assuming still needed. Terry Davidson (stw)
Who's in for tonight then ? I'm still waiting to see if an outside ride is happening.
I'm in tonight. I think - feeling a bit naff at the moment but sure a few hours of coffee drinking will sort it out
I'm in! Cold (and maybe rain!) outside today anyway!!Who’s in for tonight then ? I’m still waiting to see if an outside ride is happening.
Im on discord not had much success with it.....
What's the room //group I'm looking for
@trail_rat You need an invite to join, I've just realised that anyone already in the group can invite others so this link should work: https://discord.gg/p8bzNC
Try to get it sorted if you can, really helpful for co-ordinating the start, plus we will need some way of telling you to slow down & wait for us 😂
If there's room I'd been keen to join the TTT fun..if there's no space no worries though.
zilog - that worked im in.
Ive got a pass for jnrs bed time as ive done bed the last few nights so should be good
Will fire up the machine at lunch and be sure its updated - elected to go out on the road sunday so zwifts not been fired up since wednesday last week.
@ljarch not sure where to look to see how many team members we have so far. Out of the STWers I follow on Zwift, I can only see 4 (including me) signed up, but there might be others who I'm not following. The max is 8 so there may well be spaces! Hopefully @savoyad can help, he manages the team via WTRL
EDIT: just seen @trail_rat on the big, unsorted list so that makes at least 5... potentially up to 3 places left
Yes, there's still room in the team for tonight. There are 6 of us on the start sheet so far (dangeourbrain, phil56, tiger6791, me, trail_rat, zilog6128).
@ljarch - sign up to cat A here: https://www.zwift.com/events/view/847415 (cat A whatever your normal cat, the TTT doesn't use the categories like normal, they are more like start pens)
then go to zwiftpower.com -- settings and add (STW) to the end of your Rider Name (not on zwift, just zwiftpower).
then join the discord server: https://discord.gg/PGyyvm
@weeksy how are things going for you? Are you planning to ride with us this evening?
And I think @IvanDobski was pondering joining us over in the meetups thread as well.
I'll post some actual concrete arrangements (with patronising precision probably) later rather than tangling them up in this mess.
Just to add: for the TTT (and STW meet-ups in general) change to the stripy bee jersey if you haven't already, looks cool as a swarm & helps ID other team members (even though there were at least 2 other teams last time wearing the same tops which did get confusing 😂)
Also personally I find it really helpful for telling individual STWers apart if everyone picks a unique hairstyle/colour/hat etc as this is the easiest way to differentiate riders!
Good luck for tonight lads, looks like you've got a decent line-up sorted and the course should work well for you
Thanks Kelvin. Same to you (and to Tom and nixie and garry and the other people I'm overlooking who ride for various other teams!).
Savo, I'm good physically now mate.. I was/am waiting for a mate to let me know if we're riding, but i'm thinking that's unlikely. If that's the case, then yeah, i'll be with you 🙂
Also personally I find it really helpful for telling individual STWers apart if everyone picks a unique hairstyle/colour/hat etc as this is the easiest way to differentiate riders!
ginger beard and pink socks.
Thanks Savoyad entered stw added will get discord sorted shortly
OK. We have - for the first time ever - a full house of 8 riders on the start sheet for tonight, all correctly tagged and entered. Here's the plan:
- Dress as bumblebees. Ride a road bike. Try to look distinctive.
- Comms will be in the STW Voice channel on discord. I think everyone has access to that. Push to talk is better, less panting etc.
- Join the event before 6.30pm. We're in category A this week, which starts on the dot. Late joining doesn't work.
- Stop pedalling just before it says "go" at 6.30, so you don't roll over the line before our start time. Don't "go" when it says "go". Sit there and wait until our start time, which is...
- ... +4.5 minutes this week, so we're off at 18:34:30. We will confirm who on the line but someone will do the timer and count us down to start together.
I think that's it. The eight people are:
phil56
trail_rat
dangeourbrain
tiger6791
weeksy
ljarch
savoyad
zilog6128
See you in the pen.
Silly q's ahoy
Are we aiming for a line of conkers or a blob and how many we need to cross the line
Right sorry chaps but I’m withdrawing my hat.
Been out today and my legs are heavy so I’ll just hold you back
@trail_rat conkers... WAY more efficient! (there was a link to an article explaining how it works in the game a while back.) The big boys can take turns on the front & everyone else will try to hang on at the back 😂 Only need 4 over the line but (so far) we've been waiting/regrouping for the slower riders rather than intentionally dropping them as it's a team effort!! (Obviously if anyone is happy to be dropped or wants to that's fine, they can make it known, plenty of scope for it with a full team!)
One problem we've had so far is a bit of confusion when overtaking or being overtaken by other teams (esp. if they're wearing the same or similar jerseys). Basically if we're being overtaken the idea is to ease off a bit to let the other team get clear. Similarly when overtaking you dig a little deeper to get through them quicker. But everyone in the team needs to do the same otherwise we'll very quickly get strung out which is no good! So communication via discord is vital.
We aim for a line, but that rarely works - it's like herding cats!
It's the first four across the line - but we've never had the luxury of considering that before.
Also we're very much on the side of trying to keep everyone together (unless someone really has a big problem) rather than shelling people off the back
Unfortunately I’m also having to bow out crossed wires with the better half have a good one!
I'm in.... not sure what i've got !
Cheers for this evening folks
Bleurgh. That was ok, then found a wall after the final kick. The chase back after escalator finished me off.
Yeah really hate that escalator. Battered myself up it so as not to lose the guys in front! Good ride that, well done all, felt fast!
Cheers gents , that was tough but enjoyable.
I wondered if everyone knew about that last kicker ....it's not pleasent if you have buried your self along the river.
My discord is really quiet. Through the phone or when I connected it to my speaker really broken up. Just watched the side bar in the end
Thanks everyone - enjoyed that, good effort
Sound quality on discord has always been a bit crap! Must be a better option out there.
We used to use team speak or raid call back in the day.
Or Skype worked well if there weren't too many of us
Provisionally 140 of 189 in Frappe which I don't think I'd too bad given we only just met the minimum requirement for that category.
@dangeourbrain yes considering you can have 3 As in that cat & we had none 😂
Well there's one in my name...
Given we largely looked like the number balls inside the Camelot lottery machine most of the way round that's not bad 🙂
Apart from me and Sav who were strung out nicely at the back. We did our job, wft were you lot doing
*Kidding
Looks like 159 of 224 on the final standings.
By heck some of those teams were quick!
I am doing the Bologna Time Trial at 18:00 if anyone wants to join in. I last did it just over year ago. I averaged 240W but went out too quick. This time I am aiming for 200w for the first part which is flat and 300w for 10 mins on the hill. FTP is 270w so should just be doable...
Took 28 mins last time, with weight loss and power increase I am aiming for 22/23 mins...
Is it a flat ish ride with one climb then? I've not done it at all but if it is that's likely to suit me so might opt for that over the crit which is a bit flat for me
hmmmm was going to have a rest day after the TTT but I've not actually done a proper TT on Zwift before, plus it's pretty short, so yeah will have a crack at that!!
This is the course:
https://zwiftinsider.com/route/time-trial-lap/
But yeh 3 or 4k flat lead in followed by a 1.3mile 10% average gradient climb. TT bikes aren't required (climbing bike would be better).
bummer - id love to bolonga is a course that suits me
Cant do it and babys bed time though and its my turn on account of the TTT last night
(climbing bike would be better).
Hmmmm I'm going to go digging, something tells me I should get more from the aero benefit on the much longer flat section than the weight on the climb, I'm likely wrong.
i would have thought a TT bike with climbing wheels 😀
So being a geek...
There should be about 10 seconds for me over the flat section from the most aero wheels [which I don't have] vs the least
On the climb the same best vs worst comparison should give me 6-7 seconds.
Given my choice doesn't include 3 of those 4 sets of wheels...
Enve Ses 3.4s (2nd best climbing wheels) vs zipp 808 (6th best aero) both of which I have and neither is terrible
2.1seconds bonus on the flat for the zipp
1.25 on the climb in favour of the Ses.
So wheels for me should see about a 0.8 second advantage for the aero over the weight.
Best in class wheels
Zipp 858 super 9, 5.2 seconds on the flat
Leightweight meilstein, 2.83 seconds on the climb
For bike choice I've got a trek emonda (top 3 climbing bike) or the zwift TT (worst TT bike)
The trek should see a 10.2 second improvement on the climb
The TT a 10.26 second improvement on the flat.
Best in class on the bikes
Cervelo p5 14.5 seconds on the flat
Tarmac Pro 8.84 seconds on the climb
Im not sure whether this has previously been mentioned (don't follow this thread really), but Zwift for under-16's is free.
i have the mellensteins - got them after being pipped to the post on the line during TFA alpe stage. ..... those would have been my choice . on the shiv disk
On the same comparison the meilenstein are actually slower than the enves
The 3.4s vs the 858 see
3.47 seconds for the 858 on the flat
2.26 for the 3.4s on the climb
3.4s vs lightweight
1.7s for the 3.4s on the flat
0.56s for the mellons on the climb
The mellons are actually pretty slow on the flat but will save you 5 seconds up the alpe at 300W
Of course this all falls apart if you're going harder on the climb than the flat...
🙂 What time are you aiming for @dangeourbrain? Got to be in the region of 17/18 mins?
I am wondering if I am being a bit optimistic on my 22 mins...anyhow I have only programmed my brain for that much suffering so will have to get it done!
I did a race on Bolognia on Monday where it was the two laps so effectively, Up, Down, Up, Down and though the climb is proper there's a lot more time on the flat than I'd really appreciated.
I know Dangoeur's run the numbers but it felt a lot less of a climb than a drag with a climb to me me
I'll be on my rubbish TT bike kelvin 🙂, I mean it is a TT so I may as well go for it? (and for 6 hundredths of a second wgaf?)
Not sure on times robbo, on paper it should suit me very well. Short flat with a nice steep climb at the end, if I can keep my head down on the flat bit and not bury myself I should manage to kick up the hill nicely (just so long as I don't try sprinting it like the innsbruck one this morning that I misjudged and over egged).
I'd like to think it'll be a respectable time but I've never ridden it before so will have to respond to the feedback rather than being able to put a couple of kicks in before the start of the climb and given the lag on the turbo that isn't great on a steep climb. Also I'm not sure after yesterday's team run what I'll have left but it's a short effort so I should be OK. Zwift power suggests I should come in around 18 min give or take so we'll see. I think if I manage 18.30 or less I'll be happy enough, sub 18 will be pleased at this point in the week.
Well that was surprisingly awful
on the other hand I found that WAY too easy 😂 had loads left in the tank on the hill when I saw the finish line approaching. I blame @robbo 😉 enjoyed it tho (not done a TT before or ridden that route) and at least it gives me a baseline for pacing the next one! (Still got an FTP bump of a couple of points 😎)Well that was surprisingly awful
I enjoyed that. 21:22 so bang on where I wanted to be. 266w average. Stuck to my plan and seemed to work. Enjoyed the time trail format.
You got a good time @dangeourbrain.
You got a good time @dangeourbrain.
Annoyingly I dropped a few seconds on in the city and the on climb when it dipped. I was too slow picking up the effort on those so had a few sections where I was at 250-260W or lower and that probably saw me over the 18min mark.
I don't think being so near the front of the race helped either, I ran out of folk to chase long before the climb, the only people I could see on the list were pulling 5w/kg and when we hit the climb the one person I could see suddenly vanished (58kg according to zp so no great surprise they left me standing)
It's a rough hill though is that!
That's a good effort robbo, good to see all this effort paying off and good you gauged it right too
Zwift racing is beginning to get on my tits..
I do a tt and because I'm not a 16 stone brute I get hammered. And I do a crit race and again because my outright power is not great I get dropped within first lap.
So today I decide to drop down to the c cat for a crit race, far easier than b, held my own but predictably left for dead in sprint. No worries at least it was enjoyable and I was in the mix.
Then I get kicked off the zwift power results for 'cheating' on watts per kilo. This despite only coming 12th.
The cats need to be designed better. Watts per kilo is a terrible way of deciding what cat you can race in, given it's totally irrelevant where you place in a race. Basically it's relevant for the bologna tt and the alp d'huez race, and thats it. Every other event it comes down to pure horse power. All but one rider in the top 10 today put out more outright power, but less watts per kilo than me.
Rant over..
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I used best bike split to pace it. Got a load of PR from 12 to 20min and a 6w ftp bump so pretty happy with that.
Good power effort on the climb..
Looks like you went off a bit slowly though! As I said in earlier post that tt is the only one I have a half chance of doing ok in...they need a few more tts with hills!
I went for an IF of 1. For that length I could prob get away with 1.1 or even 1.2 so could do a bit quicker possibly.
I used best bike split to pace it.
Wow, that looks serious! I just tried for "not ow" on the flat and "please be over soon" on the climb.
Zwift racing is beginning to get on my tits..
... but less watts per kilo than me.
It's a funny one, they've got to split it somehow, I think actual ftp would be better rather than weight dependent but that's because at 81kg I'm neither heavy enough to drop a cat nor light enough to storm the climbs where as just plain W would solve any competetivity issues on the flat for me. The down side is on the hills it would make the light folks impossible to catch.
There's got to be a better solution but I'm not sure what it is, unless you run a points type system but that's getting very complicated.
Really I think the issue is there are a lot of very fit folks over 20st and masses of people under 70kg which I'm not sure is entirely honest (it amazes me how many people weigh a lot less than I do at similar height without only having one leg)
, I think actual ftp would be better
Definitely. 95% of the races are determined by ftp on zwift, power to weight is relevant on about 5% so it feels like they have it the wrong way round.
Just to be clear I wouldn't win the races either way! But it annoys me when I bust my ass, don't even make the top 10, then get disqualified for apparently being 'too good'..
don’t even make the top 10, then get disqualified for apparently being ‘too good’..
Thing is I can* make to 10 in b, I couldn’t make top 40 in c.
In c I found on anything hilly I was getting stuffed by people weighing in at 50kg or less, on the flat the top of the field were 120kg putting our 360w and untouchable. I don't belive either.
I spent enough time playing on line games to realise there are always folks who cheat and they tend towards the lower ranks
Where are all the hilly races then? I know of 2, but if there are road races in zwift that include the hills I may give then a go
Look on Zwiftpower for routes with mountain symbols next to them.
You always choose the flat ones tp
I pretty much always chose the hilly ones. They exist. Look for rides going over epic Kom and over weekend up alpe dzwift.
Anything bar those that say flat in New York Harrogate or Yorkshire will be w/kg led London only really has the one " climb" the rest are more rollers.
I don't find it that much of an issue tbh but I'm very much an all rounder. ....too heavy to be a climber not enough power to be a pure TT but powerful enough to cling on and fast enough to drop heavy pure power riders.
Also bear in mind a good C should be a rubbish B.
That you're to good for C but not competitive in B isn't a failing it's the system working.
It's not great for you I get that but someone has to be at the back, being disappointed not to play at the front is like villa being pissed at not making top four this season.
For comparison, today I was a sniff off being into A* in the TT (circa 4w/kg). I was (in a small field.%) 22nd overall, 2nd in B best I can tell.
My last crit I was 8th in B & 3.9w/kg** had I been an A*** I'd have been 2nd to last and I was ruined.
*based on average power if I'd been riding another 2 mins [I think] I'd have been promoted to an A but it wasn't long enough to generate an FTP.
**depending on when I weigh myself I possibly should be an A, 1.5kg off would see me tick over but I've weighed my self on a Sunday evening after dinner for years and I'm not changing that routine for zwift.
***crits don't suit me the course is too flat and I'm crap at draft, a bit hillier and I'd be an A as I kick on hills.
This is why I lost interest in Zwift for a year before the lockdown. I have a pretty good balance now - I do a lot of TrainerRoad workouts but do them in Zwift for entertainment. The social rides have been great as it is actually like riiding with mates and having fun rather than blasting along. I still dont have a great interest in the races. I enjoyed last night but I only viewed it as racng myself. I might look out for some more time trials now though as I feel that I can at least compete to my best and improve myself.
Dangeour have you done a race on the UCI Innsbruck route? It's a climb then a descent reckon that could be a good fit for you and some of the other folks on the thread at the minute
Did my first on that route last night, was a single lap TT though so no descent. As a course it suited me well enough and I enjoyed it, sort of!
Ultimately though I'm not much of a racer I've a reasonable but not pointy end sprint and I'm a reasonable but not pointy end climber so what tends to suit me isn't the course it's getting lucky and having a rubbish field to race against.
I do a tt and because I’m not a 16 stone brute I get hammered. And I do a crit race and again because my outright power is not great I get dropped within first lap.
Speaking as a 15 stone brute i do like zwift's valuation of big muscley man power - long may it continue.
The game isn't quite as polarised as all that, though - even on tempus fugit it's not completely absolute power driven. Did a TT with a friend who is low A, around 12.5 stone, I'm mid B 15 stones and he beat me by 30 secs. Think he did 350 and me 370. So very roughly half a cat diff (based on Wkg) was more than enough to overhaul differences in abs power.
Half a cat is a very substantial difference, mind, but that's on the flattest course on the books. Like trail_rat says above, just get on something rolling and put the hurt on the fat lads. Some of the hare and hounds routes are lumpy and holding the main B group is v tough once it goes up.
That's not what i would have expected at all, interesting
Anyone watching the INEOS pro race in by sport?
Yeh sitting watching it. There is talk of a virtual TDF now - 7 stages including Paris held during July. Apparently Zwift are creating new stages which will be good if we gat some new ones.
I watched most of it, had to miss the end because the Crit City race I was riding was starting so went back afterwards to see who won.
I think that until the parcours is changed from the zwift standard issue 1hr effort riders like Dennis are going to be at a huge advantage.
Anyway, enough about them lot and more about me...
9th/48 on ZP in the Crit City Cat C race, rolled off the front of the group with about 700m to go so decided to go for it with an aeroboost and headed that group home quite comfortably. Still a minute down on the front group though - just not quite quick enough to stick with them at the start.
I miss C races. I can hold my own in B for 70% of a race but I'm then done.
Good work dobski
Chris Froome is chasing some celebs up Watopia volcano climb tonight at 7.30. It is on YouTube and sky sports mix.
Now if those celebs were Nino and Ganna that might be interesting.