Knife to a gun fight.
Turned up to the dtcc ride tonight...... Pulled 6.5w/kg for the entire lead in and wondered why the **** I was going backwards.
Threw in the towel on lap 1.
Did tour of tewit wells to take stock and evaluate what was going wrong.
Turned up to a double draft race with a sodding TT bike.....
There is an update available so anyone doing the TTT tonight log in early to allow time for the update!
Do we still need to be in the pen at 6.30 even though we don't start for another 24 mins?
Do we still need to be in the pen at 6.30 even though we don’t start for another 24 mins?
We're at 12.5 min but yes, still need to be logged in and in pen, not pedaling, at 6.29pm.
I'm not sure if I'm going to make it this evening. Will see how I go across the day, hoping I pick up a but not been good over night.
You could be the virtual Directeur Sportif keeping it all together via the discord channel and fan view.
I've seen the Movistar documentary, all you really need to do is shout about how powerful our cajones are apparently...
You could be the virtual Directeur Sportif keeping it all together via the discord channel and fan view.
Audio would not be good for you lot. Comical maybe, but not good!
Damn, i was debating bailing as i'm tired... but i'll play as Danger isn't well. 🙂
powerups for Meetups! Might give me a chance in the sprints 😂There is an update available
oh awesome stuff !!!! look forward to them !!!
Nice one Tom… You enjoy the layout ?
Dolphin seems easier. Climb is steeper but shorter and it's shorter to the finish line where groups tend to back off a bit sooner. The other way round seems to be full on all the time as as soon as you go through the finish line you hit the climb and it goes crazy again.
Damn, i was debating bailing as i’m tired… but i’ll play as Danger isn’t well
So far I'm ok...
On that basis I'm in for this evening and fingers crossed I'll make the finish line with the rest of you.
SO we've got a good group for tonight then, with a flat course depending on where it starts of course. If it's on the usual Greater London Flat start then it's a bit lumpy off the gate, you've got a couple of toughish little kick ups early on. Then it's mostly flat apart from the section at the underpass exit.
Looking at who's in, once we settle down after the first bit by the river, we should have a good flying group.
It's looking good. We have 7 riders on the start sheet. Our STW tags are all OK. That leaves time for one more person to join I think.
We must be in the pen by 6:30. Our start time is 6:42:30 (it's 30 seconds gaps between teams because busy).
Last week we rode as bumblebees. Do that again? Or mix it up so each rider is more identifiable in the group?
I can see all 7 riders in the discord server. If an 8th does sign up, here's the working link: https://discord.gg/uRuQp7 - Voice in the STW Voice channel, text chat in the #general channel.
The seven names so far are:
weeksy
phil56
savoyad
IvanDobski
dangeourbrain
dknwhy
zilog6128
See you later.
See you all then and don't forget *stop pedaling at 6.29pm! *
I reckon stick with the same jerseys, helps see who's who when we're passing through other groups.
Anyone have a rough estimate of how long the race will last? Just so I can budget my pain levels and hopefully last the distance 😂
yeah stick with bees, might be worth giving each avatar a more distinguishable look, hat etc? My guy has long hair in a ponytail so easy to spot from behind!!I reckon stick with the same jerseys, helps see who’s who when we’re passing through other groups.
just so I don't balls it up as I didn't do the first one last week - we all stop pedalling at 6.29, join the pen, sit around getting cold and then at 6:42:30 exactly someone (team leader?) will say go and we all start pedalling from standing start? I take it this setup exists because every team is part of the same race event and the TTT organisers are cleverly staggering it to work within the existing Zwift system (which doesn't officially support this kind of event?)See you all then and don’t forget *stop pedaling at 6.29pm! *
Join the pen first
Pedal away until 6.29pm then Stop.
Wait until whoever says go then pedal away.
You can apparently sit in the pairing screen to twiddle away. I might give that a go this evening to keep my legs turning over for the wait, but I've not tried it before.
But yeah, essentially it's a workaround.
Beaten to it.
Edit - also beaten to it.
Yes zilog6128 - the zwift system supports the event only partially - so we have to time our own start.
We must stop pedalling at 6.29 to make sure we're stationary at 6.30, otherwise we'd roll over the line, then stay still until our start time. There's a workaround - you can safely pedal in the pairing screen without moving - but you might find that trickier to get in and out of than just sitting still...
Who took charge of the timing and countdown last week? Can you do it again?
Oh, and how long will it take?
I'd say 45 mins will probably win the category. 60 mins will probably come last.
Last time it was on this course (= 19th March), 27 out of 42 teams in our category were between 46:xx and 49:xx
Yup, each lap of GLF is about 20 mins, plus a little for the lead-in... So 45 ain't far off.
Anyone have a rough estimate of how long the race will last? Just so I can budget my pain levels and hopefully last the distance 😂
Not the greatest comparison, but I did ~39mins for 2 laps in Tour Of London stage 1 in Dec 2019, in a group of ~30 riders, doing ~3.5W/Kg https://www.strava.com/activities/2921939471
cool, thanks guys, looking forward to it!!
We did 16:30ish on the meetup. Record is under 40 from last time for Frappe/Latte.
Max would be 45mins I'd suggest. 43minutes for my last race to 2 laps of 3 laps. Hoping to be nearer 40 tonight as the second lap was 2 mins slower as I dropped from the front group.
Actually, my numbers above were for a race on GreatEST London Flat, wrong course. Tonight will be a few minutes quicker than that. Based on last time (14/11/19) looking at 40-45 minutes for most teams in our category.
Best of luck folks!
I'm still in for tonight. Will give it my best but my legs are pretty heavy after my first crit race last night.
Crit racing is mental! Entered cat C (i'm C almost B on Zwiftpower). 15 laps. Was 400w from the off and then stayed above 300W until lap 3 when I had to let the front group go. Was dying nearer the end but managed to stay with it as best I could. Didn't manage a good sprint though and narrowly lost out on a couple of places.
FInished 11th on Zwiftpower rankings (20th in the companion app results). 264W average and 3.5w/kg.
That sounds like a fine effort. !!!
I didn't Zwift but I did ride outside, not too hard though.
15 laps. Was 400w
I read that bit and thought "bloody hell, you'll be fine tonight heavy legs or no".
Honestly you'll be fine though, even with heavy legs there's no mad crazy dash from the off so just about holding a comfortable pace.
No need to murder your self in the first 30 seconds just a nice steady pootle at 350w or so for the 40 mins should be fine 😉
I've signed up again so I'll have to blow the dust off my zwift bike. Hopefully try and see you online
Well done guys. That was bloody hard work!
just a nice steady pootle at 350w or so for the 40 mins should be fine 😉
I guess you didn't see the winky face no?
Yeah. I was just below my HR limit the whole time 😂 I did a couple of v short turns on the front which basically killed me. Almost dropped out a couple of times but that was psychological more than anything else - I never ride at constant effort like that, it’s always sprint, rest. Repeat so I found that really hard work lol
Great effort though!
Well done - a great team effort that - it was hard, but I really enjoyed it!
Anybody fallen foul of the no draft bug? One of my TTT teammates had it and had to drop out. Zwift patch imminent.
Was in that yeah. Felt I wasn't a hindrance this time in a flat course. So yeah I enjoyed myself
Thanks all.
That was fast. I'll post full results as soon as I see them. Partial results are looking very good indeed, though there are two timeslots still to come late tonight.
Anybody fallen foul of the no draft bug?
A chap next to me has a TT bike in the pen...
But no, I was just not very good tonight. The 3% climb felt like vertical, even the down hill felt like up then my trainer locked up with about a k to go so it could be a nuisance too not just me not being up to it.
In fairness to everyone else mind, Ivan and Weeksy particularly, they tore my legs off this week.
Maybe I shouldn't have revised the "I'm not very well".
That was a fraction easier than last week but only just! I averaged 300w for the race and got an ftp increase to 293w.
I didn't think that lone rider drafting us was ever going to twig that he needed to drop off mind.
I didn’t think that lone rider drafting us was ever going to twig that he needed to drop off mind.
Odd thing is his team came through a bit later so not like he didn't know what was going on, he just wouldn't go away!
I averaged 300w for the race and got an ftp increase to 293w.
That's some good numbers and ?30W? Up on last week so that's a heck of jump too.
On the typical 30-40km races I have been hovering just under the 4w/kg for some time now.
Tonight I entered the 16km Team Italy Superveloce Race, knowing full well on a very short and more or less flat course I, and most other B cat riders in the top 20, would go over the 4w/kg.
Sure enough all except 1 of the top 20 B cats went over 4w/kg ... I finished 7th B cat but disqualified for going over the limit (not in race results - but show me in unfiltered results); how does ZP decide who to disqualify and who to enter when almost all top20 finishers had gone over??
@mooman this is something I’ve noticed about the shorter courses too! Begs the question tho, if you KNEW you were going to be over, why d’you enter the wrong category? 😉
If it's under 20 minutes and your I'm your ZP cat you can't go over.
What was your TTT time? Think we did 37:06 in espresso 🤮. Really hard this week,
Sure enough all except 1 of the top 20 B cats went over 4w/kg …
You should enter a cat C race. That would have been the top 50 riders at over 4w/kg
For normal races, they use 95% of 20min power in that race to approximate everyone's FTP, and then give some leeway against category wattages - it used to be 0.2w/kg I think but in the last few weeks it has been tightened to 0.1w/kg.
For races under 20 minutes they can't do the first bit. So I thought they used a modified formula (some other % of some shorter time) to approximate riders' FTP. If they do, I don't know if it's publicised what that % is or how long it's taken over.
So in your race they'd use some formula a bit like .95 of 20mins to generate an FTP, then WKG everyone at 4.1 and above. I don't know how those two riders who averaged 4.3 for less than 20 minutes got away with that today. nixie's answer might be fairer (and would bin those two, and maybe some others, but wouldn't help you...). They might disappear when the minute-by-minute data pulls through. (Which might make nixie right after all!).
42:38 I think. We rode latte, but I think we had 4x category B riders which will mean recategorisation into frappe when the results are finalised.
37:06 is at the top end of espresso isn't it nixie?
I finished 7th B cat but disqualified for going over the limit
No idea what the difference is but, if you look at the unfiltered results, those who weren't DQ'd have a "category" - far right column) of <4.1w/kg
Oddly on the filtered results that's not the one it displays though.
Nice work. 👍
Think it's more mid pack espresso. Our other espresso squad was a cool 1 minute faster!
So next weeks has the Volcano KOM https://zwiftinsider.com/out-and-back-again/
Have done that one before. Evil! Hard work holding the bunch together.
Thanks to the TTT guys tonight. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Legs didn't quite have it after last night's crit effort but I was glad to hang in until the end. Thanks for dragging me round and sorry for my turbo dropping out. Seems to be happening every couple of rides since I started using my garmin watch as HR monitor so i'm wondering if it's bluetooth interference between my watt bike and my watch with the laptop...
Think my FTP went up too (although not sure how to check). Is there some way to see the curve?
I've been moved up to B now though so a whole new experience for me from now on!
We rolled round in 42.50 or thereabouts. Had to do it as a trio as we lost one team mate on the line. Steamed round in good order but lost our shape back half of the second lap and had to regroup.
Do some of the more experienced guys have good comms during these events? I can't really hear / be heard over the fans with the headset I'm using, tried both zoom and discord. Would make all the difference to know if someone has a connection problem, but can get back on with big legs, or if you need to dial the pace back a touch to keep everyone together etc etc.
That one isn't for me, I'm out.
We used discord tonight but I struggled to hear above my bike and the fan with the phone resting on the holder on the bike. I just eased up if I heard anyone say anything as generally I assumed it meant someone was dropping.
I lost connection early on and the guys slowed for me so I'm assuming that they could hear me OK.
Gonna test out my headphones before the next one.
As a gentleman of a more "robust" build that course really doesn't suit me but I'll sign up to make up the numbers, do what I can to help on the flats then drop out when it gets to the main climb.
Unless we get a group of whippet climbers in which case I'll bow out.
zilog6128
Subscriber
@mooman this is something I’ve noticed about the shorter courses too! Begs the question tho, if you KNEW you were going to be over, why d’you enter the wrong category? 😉
Valid question I guess.
The reason being that I know I am not an A cat rider; if I had entered that category I would have simply been dropped from the front group within 2km because those fellas would also have been pushing 1w/kg above their typical 30-40km power ... and then very likely riding the course on my own, or with 2-3 others, and not getting a solid workout.
I not concerned the result was disqualified because it would have bumped me into A cat .. and as said - I simply not an A cat!
I don't understand what difference the course makes? If as a group we can sit at around 300w like we did last night, what difference does it make if we're doing that effort on the flat or on a climb- surely the effort is the same? Or am I missing something?
It's because of the weight difference I guess. My 300W at 76kg will pull me up the hill faster than a 100kg rider doing 300W. More noticeable than on the flat.
I'm willing to give it a go though.
I not concerned the result was disqualified because it would have bumped me into A cat .. and as said – I simply not an A cat!
You'd have been 21 of 38 in the A cat on zp with your time, that's pretty decent
I don’t understand what difference the course makes?
I think you'd need to handle slightly differently, so you might want to aim hold a specific wattage on the flat but then change to aim for a w/kg for the climbs.
I'm very much up for giving it a go.
Good effort in last night's TTT chaps!
Getting changed to go out, but then another shower hitting as I was about to put my shoes on, pressured me into fitting the new Direto belt yesterday afternoon. However, following the instructions from
The best calibration value I could get was 6335, when the sticker is 6336, gave myself sore finger trying to tighten tightener bolt!
Didn't get chance to see how it felt on Zwift or see how the power numbers compare to my 4iiii, I'm dreading seeing where my stats are now and getting back to some regular sustained power efforts, I feel positively "slob-like" compared to Feb due to extended mild COVID-19 symptoms. https://www.strava.com/activities/3327535203/analysis/482/1681 is the closest thing I've done to a 20min FTP/race and given how I messed up my estimation on when 20mins was up and then backed off ~2min50secs too early, I shouldn't complain too much.
I don’t understand what difference the course makes? If as a group we can sit at around 300w like we did last night, what difference does it make if we’re doing that effort on the flat or on a climb- surely the effort is the same? Or am I missing something?
In simple terms for me, i'll hold you back in the results if i race this one. I can pretty much hold my own on the flat course, but w/kg is king going up the KOM and at a reasonable guess i'd lose you/us a minute or maybe even 90s on the kill compared to if i'm not there and you're waiting for me. Sure i can put out 280w all the way up it, but that's only 3w/kg, if you guys are climbing at 4w/kg that's easily a minute.
Depending on numbers Weeksy we could have designated people towing on the flats and then let the 4 fastest climbers go.
Results are up from last night 143rd in frappe.
143 STW 3 7 Frappe 00 : 42 : 38 .452 40.67 kmh
the only minor issue with that is the Out and Back layout does the Watopia Hilly over the bridge climb as well, which is going to cost you climbers 30s too. It's an idea for sure and i'm not fully against playing it like that to try and help out... But you saw at NY the difference you climby guys can make over us flat riders even on small climbs, it's absolutely huge. For the Hilly climb it's only a 3 mins section say, so i can put in 400w for a chunk of it... but then i'm cooked for the next bit where i'm supposed to be helping/pushing.
143rd in frappe.
Out of 202 so pretty reasonable.
Time wise though even if you cut the couple of massively off time teams we were about 4 minutes off the first team and about 4 minutes ahead of last so we're in the right ball game at least
I’ve got this confusion over categories also. Because I am orientated toward 4-12h mtb, I’ve been doing longer races, pushing the top end of C at 3.3wkg over 1:45 - Gold in the Newbury RR 2 weeks ago and 7th last week (although three above me have no HR data and the top 2 were at 3.8wkg)
Although I’m no crit racer with an ftp of 3.8wkg people keep telling me “Your a B!” But if I entered a shorter 20/30 min race would I enter as B or C? Zwift power says “almost a B”. Yet looking at the above, I can’t manage 4wkg so it doesn’t seem correct albeit one of my Club colleagues just scored a bronze B at 3.8wkg - depends on the oppo I guess?
The wtrl site (and zwift itself) is now showing a course change for next week ... to Greater London Flat like yesterday.
Do we have any 'climbers'? I weigh exactly the same as you Weeksy. Kelvin would be, but looking at the five of us who finished together last night we're 76, 80, 87, 88 and 101kg - so no lightweights.
My point is that as a group, on any route, there's a maximum effort we can sustain. On climbs we're going to be slower - that's a given.
Last night I though we did a pretty good job of working as a team, staying together and pulling each other through.
On a hilly course we can still work together - and all we can do is the best time we can manage as a team on that course - that's good enough for me.
I think it would be a shame if anyone drops out because they think they'd slow the team down - you won't
Kryton - why don't you join one of the STW group rides? There is one at 10.30 tomorrow. THey are good fun.
Do we have any ‘climbers’? I weigh exactly the same as you Weeksy
Whilst that may be the case, you're head and shoulders above me in terms of performance buddy. I'm not dismissing myself here, i'm a top class C racer on flat courses, but uphill i'm honestly weak a heck.... How and why, i really really don't know, i just don't have the 300w uphil i can find on the flat, is it a cadence thing, a power thing or just a psychological thing, not really sure...
Well I think I found the problem with my trainer.
Seems the axle had wound up tight enough to lock the flywheel. Took a hammer to slacken it off but suddenly my "commute" on video actually feels like my commute not a 25% incline. I'll see if it holds true in zwift later.
The problem with my legs last night may be less easy to fix.
[url= https://i.postimg.cc/cLPkF3B8/Screenshot-20200501-092701-com-android-chrome.jp g" target="_blank">https://i.postimg.cc/cLPkF3B8/Screenshot-20200501-092701-com-android-chrome.jp g"/> [/img][/url]
Maybe not my legs that kept me from hanging on to you lot. Maybe zwift just didn't like me last night 🤔
That's weird. Where is that screenshot taken from?
Where is that screenshot taken from?
My phone 🙂
Lifted off the WTRL results page.
It fits with where I reckon I was sitting for the first 25minutes or so. Everytime I looked at my power I was a fair bit over 300w. I seem to recall saying at one point when Weeksy was on front I was holding 350w and being shelled out the back of the group. I thought he was just trying to upset me!
Kryton – why don’t you join one of the STW group rides? There is one at 10.30 tomorrow. THey are good fun.
I'd like to but my riding is very prescribed (coached training) and have sweet spot sessions tomorrow and that'd only work if you have rubber banding on, so I could knock out my intervals and stay in the group...?
'group' is a very loose term.
What are you training for ? there's no events 🙂
Live a bit and enjoy a ride 🙂
I seem to recall saying at one point when Weeksy was on front I was holding 350w and being shelled out the back of the group. I thought he was just trying to upset me!
TBH i was doing 400w when you mentioned it... I wasn't messing about on that section.
Oh so you were just trying to upset me 😜
that’d only work if you have rubber banding on,
This sounds like all our group rides to me.
Fly off the front, fall out the back, hook up for a few minutes, repeat.
Other than a couple of sprints tomorrows session will be fairly relaxed I think. You should be able to do SS session an still do the group ride with little impact. You don't have to compete the sprints either.