What's everyones wattage like for sprints? Max sprint numbers?
60kg
I weigh 60kg and I'm 5'10'. It's just my body shape. BMI of 19, which is in the normal range - as far as anything to do with BMI can be considered normal.
I'm sure there's loads of weight doping going on. Don't forget though that the heavier rider goes faster in Zwift...
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I’m sure there’s loads of weight doping going on. Don’t forget though that the heavier rider goes faster in Zwift…
Not really. On medium to steep climbs speed's pretty much a function of power to weight ratio, but the flat where air resistance is the determining factor, it's mostly about outright power, so heavier riders - if they put out more watts - tend to have an advantage. On climbs, it's the other way round. If you lied about being lighter than you actually are, you'll pretty much go the same speed on the flat, but be faster on climbs.
People on Zwift who think w/kg is a way of standardising pace on a group ride haven't really thought it through, though it would theoretically work if everyone set their virtual weight to an identical figure...
Don’t forget though that the heavier rider goes faster in Zwift…
Only if they have the power to go with it.
On climbs, it’s the other way round. If you lied about being lighter than you actually are, you’ll pretty much go the same speed on the flat, but be faster on climbs.
Absolutely. But I get dropped on flat rides in B, let alone A, so I would think it's not difficult to figure out who's cheating.
And it's not just weight doping, you'll see there's a consistent winner in B who veeerrrryyyy carefully keeps his 95% power fractionally below 250W (yet maintains kg/W of 4.5+) to ensure that he never gets bumped up into A.
I enjoy it because it's fun and I'm far more motivated in a workout when I'm racing someone else.
What’s everyones wattage like for sprints? Max sprint numbers?
1286 peak, 986 15 seconds, 871 30 seconds.
BUT 79kgs 🙁
I keep just below C limits, but mostly because I can't average more than 265w for any length of time
@blader1611 - I have entered as STW team, but not actually looked around Zwiftpower options around what details etc it shows about the team before.
But read on here about height doping - which I’d never heard about before - so had a flick through the STW team stats ... specifically looking at the other A cat riders there; which only showed 2 others besides myself at the time; and as said; maybe my suspicious nature picked up on their weight & height because of the mention on here about height doping.
Until zwiftpower start giving prize money, and I get good enough to be at the sharp end to be in with a chance of winning it ... then I not care if anybody/everybody drops 10kg and 12inchs from their race profile.
@flaperon I did not intend to accuse you of doping; appols for my often lack of forethought.
Kryton I dream of 79kg. I'm 96!
1286 peak, 986 15 seconds, 871 30 seconds.
BUT 79kgs
Peak about 850
15s about 650
30 about 500
I have no sprint and 90kg
90 day values from ZP @ 77Kg
Peak 980W (12.72wkg)
15 Seconds 844W (10.96wkg)
30 Seconds 708W (9.19wkg)
1 Minute 533W (6.92wkg)
5 Minutes 374W (4.85wkg)
20 Minutes 341W (4.42wkg)
I also don't have a great sprint.
At the end of Zwift races my sprint is rubbish because I've spent most of my effort hanging on with the group. I'm going to go back to my other tactic of going steady off the start and letting people come back to the group I'm in in a hope that I can actually attack and influence rather than just hang on. It'd be a rare and short B race where I can worry the podium.
Recently around 500watts for 15s which is generally the final sprint. I lose out early in the sprint then tend to start pulling people back towards the line. Mind you they've beaten me by then. If I start earlier I get swamped. I can't get a big wattage output of 800+watts out at the end of a race. It's just not available. Doesn't particularly worry me at the moment as I'd rather build my FTP than produce a high power short sprint at the moment. Plan is to work on short power for hill climb season but still not really looking at finish line sprint speed.
Such an interesting perspective in different capability.
My sprint appears high but then my mid range is poor and my z2 quite high . In short I'd ride all day next to Nixie, then need him to tow me through the last 10k to keep me at the front and finally act as my lead out man. 😀
All this talk has me interested in a Zwift race on the 17th in leiu of a costly MTB event which isn't necessary. Might have a look and see what's available.
All this talk has me interested in a Zwift race on the 17th in leiu of a costly MTB event which isn’t necessary. Might have a look and see what’s available
Apart from the fun of mud, Zwift racing gives me more than any outdoors racing can. Because i'm not racing (generally) against guys like you and nixie. It gives me a level playing field where i get to use tactics as above, sometimes pushing on, sometimes hanging in... etc.
IRL in XC/Cat4 etc i'm simply destroyed by the field within the first 15 mins, so the racing is then just me against other backmarkers... which holds very little interest.
It's also great training, along with being instantly accessible and very cheap.
As Tom says, sprinting and sprinting at the end of the race are 2 very different games 🙂 Especially at the pointy end of your Cat as in theory you've been at the high end of your ability for 45min.
Yeah strategy is where I'd lose out. As you say it'd be a cheaper way to a decent effort though.
You can see here how much tactics play a factor
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=165006
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=164529
In both races, the non-pro Zwift stars feature well.. .arguably better than they would outside i'd bet. Zwift racing is to me a very precise form of racing, racing like Team Sky in a way, power, HR, effort... When i'm outside i don't have any of these Metrics available to me, so i can't ride in the same way. But indoors on Zwift you can time your moves, hold your position in the draft etc.. I rekon in a given race i beat several guys who would crush me outdoors purely due to the number of Zwift races i've done
My absolute peak sprint was in a 2 wkg training ride. Normally I max mid 800s after a medium distance race. Normally my matches are a soggy mess by sprint time. Hence I will try and break away whenever possible or jump onto a break.
Putting my numbers into the category power tables I'm better at longer efforts as I can just keep going (think longer power is two cats higher than sprint). It's the variability and short term spikes that do me in. That said it does feel like my in race recovery is getting better. I've noticed more time in the low 150s HR Vs 160+. Either getting fitter or better at hiding.
I've never raced IRL. Probably should at some point.
As Tom says, sprinting and sprinting at the end of the race are 2 very different games 🙂 Especially at the pointy end of your Cat as in theory you’ve been at the high end of your ability for 45min.
Trust me at the bottom end of my Cat I've been at the high end of my ability :0)
I’ve never raced IRL. Probably should at some point.
Probably you've got decent numbers. I keep meaning to have another go as I probably won't get dropped halfway through the local Cat 4 circuit races now.
I also tend to do a long sprint of mediocre power as my legs are shot for trying to get the cadence up. In todays pursuit race which was very fast throughout i managed to finish in 2nd and it was a bunch sprint of about 15 and yet i only peaked at 646w. I did start from about 450m out and slowly wound it up and that seemed to get me enough of a lead to cross the line as they were all fast approaching. This only works though if the race has been very hard, if not i just get swamped.
Struggle to get my sprint over 600w at end of a race ... I am usually on my limit merely getting to the end of a 45 min race.
Dropped back into C, weights crept up a couple of kg, the 18:07 Hares and Hounds, much more fun, large fast group stayed together, rather than me being shelled out early and in no mans land, went early in the sprint, 2nd, got done right on the line, bang on 3.2w/kg so in limits, and felt like i had a much better work out and more motivated in the later stages
Nice work!
In todays pursuit race which was very fast throughout i managed to finish in 2nd
Just to clarify, 2nd overall! Bloody impressive
Well done. You were comfortably under at just over 3wkg for 95%. You could easily tip it back over to being a B though if you hit 3.1something in a race though.
I've got over a month of underperforming to get demoted to C. I'm not trying to underperform honest ;0)
Ok, I'm in. I'm on Zwiftpower already but what do I need to do to be categorised / be in team STW's ranks?
Edit - forget I've joined STW although I can't see myself on the list.
I think you need to do a group ride or a race and your profile will be updated.
Oi! I thought we were all trying to get to B, not all of you dropping down to C to join me!
On your profile does it have team listed as STW?
Do a race that's longer than 20 minutes and it will categorise you.
I'd suggest you start as a B. Be really happy if you get DQed and end up as an A.
Well that was a bit of a cock up.
Set off at a sensible wattage just over 300 and just tagging onto the back of a group and realised I was spinning the 11T quite fast. Too fast. Smart bit of trainer had connected but hadn't. Stupidly went in to disconnect and reconnect but should have waited for a downhill. Now just the stragglers passing me.
Smashed through 3 groups but decided the next was now out of range so settled in with Cs and Ds. 2nd lap slowed so I kept some pace up. It's quite different being able to sit at or near the front all the time rather than hanging onto the back.
Decided to spice it up and went hard in the sprint on lap 2 and used an aero and picked up a leaf which used up into the esses and quickly had a 20 second lead. Mostly maintained that for the next lap to the sprint but a concerted effort after the esses brought me back to about 8 seconds on the line. I eventually capitualated after the small rise from the tunnels and sat in as the pace dropped. Final time into the esses went for it up the climb with one of the main people who were pulling me back and we got a big gap. He wouldn't let up so left him on the front and used another aero to "breeze" by at 200 to go and sat up with 50 to go.
Last B by a long way but fun in the end and different.
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=163131
so, i drop into C, just done the 16:50 3R Innsbruckring and i go and do 291w for 20 minutes, which is 3.5w/kg so over limits, best 20min power this year,
was a good race, with the front bunch until the first time up the hill split everything, solo for a bit, then got caught by another group, stuck with them until the final hill split it again, and i got dropped on the down, 2nd in C but i assume ill get bumped, time good enough for 14/33 in B on ZP,
back to B we go
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=163713
Well done a bit of rest does you good. Looking back at my 2 standout races they were after the 2 weeks of Xmas where I got on regularly but didn't hammer myself so kind did a couple of weeks taper into them.
A day of scraping wood chip does not lend itself to a very hard start. No way I could produce big enough power for long enough to stay with the front on a 1 lapper. Got into a decent group pushing on at Innsbruck. Put a big effort up the little hill and hoovered up a load of riders but got stuck on my own. Caught a lightwight C rider who could realistically only take one turn as I was trying to ensure we held off the next B who was 5 seconds down. Caught another C and dragged them to the line and had no sprint left but held the B off which was the aim.
Short, hard, fun. Pick 2.
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=163731
Might try a long one tomorrow or one of the London Afterparties routes as a race if there are any.
Those short ones have got to be brutal. Well done.
Rest certainly does do you good. I have looked at my race stats during the week when I come home feeling exhausted. And my power is down by an average 20w and I also struggle to get/maintain a high HR.
I shall be avoiding the hurricane winds outside today, and do the 12.05 3R Astoria 8 Line Hilly Race.
Bleeeurgh
.
Tough one today at the Ring. 4 lapper. Went off and worked out group 1 (which contained an STW er) was out of my league and sat in group 2. Pace was fairly high but I was getting dragged round nicely. First 2 lap up the kick/hill I was able to hold the group but coming towards it on lap 3 I knew I was it trouble and just about fell off the back of the group, I would have needed 4+ down the other side to catch again and it simply wasn't there.
Paired up with a B I caught on the line into lap 4. We were being closed by the group behind so I eased to recover a bit and jumped on as they caught and passed us. My buddy jumped on too. As we came to the hill I knew I was done. It was all over and at only 300w up it I was shelled and it was a solo grind the rest of the lap to the end.
The other C's had blown out the Cat limits though so I took the gold
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=164353
. destroyed. Shouldn't have raced today really, but enjoyed parts lol
I did the 3R Astoria 8 Line Hilly Race as planned.
Start wasnt as fast as I expected for only a 23k race. So comfortably stayed with front group of 9 other riders for the first lap - then about half way around on 2nd lap I found myself at back of a strung out group as they climbed - and the rider in front of me lost the group, so by time I went around him the group were all descending and I couldnt get back on!
So for then on I rode solo keeping the gap from rider behind ... and rode in for 9th (6th on zwiftpower).
Increased my ftp to 298w
Nice job! On my best day I've made your power. Only 20kg heavier ha ha.
I did a very gentle 90-minutes of zone 2 this morning, mostly just avoiding driven sleet and stuff in the real world. As usual I was mystified by group ride leaders desperately trying to co-opt watts per kilo into being a measure of ride pace: '4w/kg now everyone!'
It's just so unbelievably stupid, unless you really think everyone is the same weight :-/
I’m 11 weeks into the 12 week ‘build me up’ programme. All was going well until work and manflu meant I missed nearly 3 weeks. Actually sacked off the last 30 mins of a two hour session today as very tired legs from a big MTB ride yesterday. Reckon it’s definitely made a difference tho - will see on next weeks FTP test.
When it’s done, I’ll get my turbo fixed (dreaded Tacx whine) and then I’m going to have a go at a few races. My days of just riding round are defintely gone, and I don’t fancy starting another plan. FTP is going to be about 245 so I guess ‘C’?
245 is about C unless you're 65kg
Hah I wish! 78kg assuming I’ve steered away from the cake tin!
You should be a fast C then.
I’ve never been a fast anything, and never raced other than MTB 24 hour stuff. Still it’ll be an interesting experience. And it means I can turn ERG mode off which will make me very happy 😉
same course/race as yesterday, back in B 13/17 3.2w/kg, same deal, front group to the hill, shelled, hang on, get caught, repeat,
4th race of the week, first time for a while, and a day off for work tomorrow 🙂
Sounds like you've all been busy. Good racing all.
I've had a few days off and today hit the KISS long race (London Pretzel). There were a few complaints about pace being high for a Sunday night. I thought it was staying a little on the low side but hey it was my first ride for a few days. About 25km in I had an aero and fancied a little fun so popped off the front and opened a 10s gap. Two others joined me and we managed to hold out till fox hill. The expected happened then and the climbers disappeared up the mountain. It took me a little time to rebalance after the break and I was stuck in about 15th 1 minute back. Now in a nice group of 6 we managed to reel in the second group about 30s up but the leaders were long gone. Dispite being right near the end I managed a decent PB up box hill and crested with two other riders (inc one stw flagged rider). I tried to break away out of the subway and got up to a 4s gap but my legs were shot and a 1.6k break was asking too much. They came back past with 300m to go and I couldn't do anything about it. Got 10th just behind David Churchill of this parish.
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=164320
Good suffering to hold 4w/kg got 1hr 20😤
I think with timings i'm looking at the 16:10 greatest London flat today. Not my favourite layout by a long stretch, but will give me a decent bit of a ride...
That is, unless i take a little rest day... We'll see how i feel later.
I have recently been using the Zwift workouts quite a bit with ERG mode, what gear do you all run in ERG mode? I am big ring at the front and 4th down whichever makes the chain appear straight enough at the back, usually around the 4th or 5th biggest cog.
I seem to always favour using the outer chain ring indoors, outdoor and offroad but wondered would running in the small front ring make any difference or have benefits?
One day my schedule will turn around a bit so I can start participating in more races however at 6am in the morning with one coffee on board the best I can manage is get a ride or workout in.
what gear do you all run in ERG mode?
I tend to run mine in the small ring / mid cassette for the straightest chainline. Not all my workouts use ERG mode so I still get a decent spread of use over the cassette.
That’s the real benefit of Zwift when time is too tight to actually get outside and ride.
With my limited time during week I go for quality rather than quantity. And a 40-60 minute race is ideal.
Same as Kryton on ERG - small ring, mid cassette. Also my outer ring is a bit more worn and I’m too tight to change it!
I seem to always favour using the outer chain ring indoors, outdoor and offroad but wondered would running in the small front ring make any difference or have benefits?
There's a Shane Miller video somewhere on YoutTube where he tested whether using different gear combos in ERG mode made a difference. Erm...
https://blog.wahoofitness.com/erg-mode-gear-selection-matter/
Edit: suggests running a lower gear helps if you have issues with the Kickr black hole / spiral of death where you drop down in cadence and can't turn the pedals over. Lower, faster gear should help to spin the flywheel up faster, though obviously depends on how heavy the flywheel is in your particular trainer. The Kickr one is quite weighty, so that makes sense.
There's a reason I hate greatest London flat, I'm sodding rubbish on it for some reason.
Worst race in years that. Could have bailed about 10 times but stuck it out. A case of bad course and out in the first 7-10km too hard too fast, died many painful deaths.
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=164887
wrote some stuff about home/work/demotion to C/FTP reset/some decent days/no racing when i could get on/tried to beat my 30 day PR up Watopia Mountain and it disappeared,
anyway, seemingly smashing through my 2019 PRS all across the board at the moment, no idea how, which is nice
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I'm curbing the racing a little as I'm going too hard, too often and it's killing me off! So today was longer slower just to keep the km in the legs and burn some calories. I'm going to aim for 2 races a week.
Didn't get around to a turbo session today before dinner (combination of feeling physically drained and better half not liking me disturb her bath with turbo trainer noise), just looked at my Strava training log and it's the first day without riding since 12th Feb... Far from all commutes and turbo sessions have been pedal to the metal efforts, but even so, I had no idea I had done 28(?) consecutive days! 😮 😆
10:05 3R Richmond Flat Race - 4 Laps - stayed with the front group the whole way round, until it got too fast at 1.5km to go, from the results, it was all the A's that sped off, 3rd in B - 2 above me are 4.5w/kg and 4.2w/kg they were less than 0.5s in front of me, so I'm taking that as a win 🙂
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=165959
I was abandoning my idea of a Zwift race for MTB smashing a Swinley. However, 3 days of rain before Sunday will leave the usual Swinley grinding paste... back to Zwift maybe.
Swinley is going to be a swamp whether it's dry or not in the next 3 days as it's rained tonnes lately. I'm certainly not going there this weekend.
Another KISS long one for me last night. 55k, 6 laps of Watopia hilly reverse. What was I thinking. I always get dropped on that route, often as early as just after the sprint. For once this didn't happen and I hung onto the lead till second time up the KOM. Tired legs from Sunday then decided not to play and dispite staying in touch up the steepest bit I couldn't hold it for the next roller and dropped back.
I did lap three with one other rider but he didn't seem to be putting much effort it when pulling. A quick check of the live feed revealed he was a B and was in-fact trying hard. Problem was the gap ahead was opening. When the group ahead went up the climb on lap 3 I saw a couple drop off so opened the taps and dropped the B rider (40s up that climb).
Lap four became a ITT as I furiously tried to bridge the 1.30 gap. I had got down to about 20s when a group caught to within 5s at the base of the climb. I extended that back to 10s by the top but they had closed me down by the esses. Just before the sprint we caught the rider I had been chasing. The next rider was 2 minutes up the road, but in a small group I thought we could catch them. Unfortunately the rest of group couldn't be persuaded to chase. We lost a few up the climb on lap five and started the last lap with 6 together.
During the esses one rider gapped the group. No one seemed bothered so I jumped the gap and we rapidly escaped together. They were strong so I stayed on the wheel as much as I could and did the standard trick of jumping out out their slipstream with 200m to go. After finishing I hung around to top 60km for the ride. Very stiff today!
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=165498
Cracking write up!
no racing today, did 77km/2010m/3h10m of the four horsemen loop, ran out of time before the nursery run to finish it, decent steady ride
40km at tempo today, I hate those rides.
Anyway, w/KG says I'm a B. Do I enter as B with my limited experience and accept the lower end of B results or do I enter as C? If I enter as C and overpeform as C, will I get DQ'd?
And, how do I know how long "2 laps" is?
Enter B. Worse case you get a DQ, best is auto upgrade.
For distance look on zwift power. The event list tends to have the race distance.
Thanks Nixie, will do.
B. If it turns out you can't get over the category limit for B then you can downgrade to C next time. If you're miles off the back but breaking the Cat C limit still well get better at drafting ;0)
I would think you'll be fine just remember to go hard off the line and hold on until it calms down a bit.
I would think you’ll be fine just remember to go hard off the line and hold on until it calms down a bit.
I'm used to that real/MTB racing. I'm not concerned with the result, so lets see how it goes! This will be a great measure (power/HR) fitness test for me at the start of my season.
You're no C mate. You'll be a competitive B at the very least imo.
Ooof this is tricky. There’s an Ottawa race in the morning with some stiff climbs. I’m not a climber but I’ve been training that over winter. Ends on a big climb
Then again, theres a Dutch Diesel on Volcano flat in the afternoon which better suits me. Ends in a flat sprint.
Both are close to 90 mins being 52/61 Km’s respectively which is perfect.
For me, pick the one with the most likely entrants. The race is about the battles, holding groups, pushing on, etc
I don't race often on zwift, and only started a couple of months ago. The last two attempts of entering a race have not worked. Can anyone tell me what I'm doing wrong? This has worked in the past so I should have all the right setup.
Fired up zwift and while I was waiting for it to load I opened the companion app and searched for a race. Found one and entered it. Then I started a zwift ride and waited for the join event button to pop up. It never arrived. Also the race had a start time of 6pm, but at 6pm when I checked the companion app it said starting in 11 minutes.
Some races have staggered start times for different categories so it is possible that a 8pm race could start 10 mins later for lower categories. Look inside the event description for more info on category start times
I still haven't managed to enter an event on the companion app that shows up when I go onto the game. Missed a couple of races before giving up and going back to the old method of entering in-game from the top-right menu before beginning to ride. That usually works OK provided you wait until the orange "going" notification comes up alongside the race you enter.
Entered the 11:20 Ottawa race. If I’m going to be at race intensity I may as well go the whole hog and hit the hills as this is a training race. Expect to be well down the leaderboard ! Should be fun in an odd kind of way.
Only downside to that may be number of entrants. Sunday seems often to be a cruise day for people, they do the Dirt, the SZR and DBR rides by the tonne... but the racing can be a little quiet on Sundays. Me, i'd wait until about 9am, see which race looks like it's likely to have the most people in and then maybe change if needed. It's all well and good having a course/layout that suits what you're looking to get from the weekend, but not much point if you're alone for 99% of the ride.
Ok good advice thanks Weeksy. I don’t have an option to race Saturday though.
You'll always get the odd race with decent numbers on a Sunday.
Sadly Zwiftpower doesn't seem to have an easy way for me to see what's common and what's not after last Tues.... So can't check to see.
I guess it may depend on your goals for the day... if it's miles, HR and correct zones... then it may not matter
90 mins of race intensity followed by 40 mins of a tempo interval is Sunday's goal :). Zones etc only come into the tempo component.
This is ultimately to replace an XC race I can't be bothered to travel to.
I did a 4 lap race of Innsbruck this morning with Jon Mould. Its probably not difficult to guess where he dropped me, the hideous hill in the middle of town on the first lap! I was 15s down after the first lap which i thought was respectable. Each lap i managed to climb that hill in a minute with an avg of around 430w which put me in the lead group of B’s apart from one rider who clung on to Mould and the A group. Last lap up the hill avgd 440w which put me at the front, so bunch finish of about 10 of us. No recovery from the hill so long sprint from 350m out and i held them all off much to my surprise (silver in B cat). The last 22s i avgd 551w with 15s best of 9.3w/kg which was pure torture due to its proximity to the hill. Mould managed 14.9wkg, that is too much for my brain to imagine.
Cracking stuff! Nice mate
An actual race that set off in categories.
Keith Hill After Party. Sedate (300 watts 1min) start and a comfortable (240 watts) journey around London and apart from one minor panic and big effort after the Classique finish line with the lead group of Bs to Keith Hill. They mostly buggered off at the start of the climb and I ended up with 2 others. Didn't have the confidence in my ability, especially after really bad legs yesterday, to go with the stronger one, who finished 37 seconds up the road, so stuck with the other and took turns on the front. With 2km to go then dug in and slowly dropped him. Just shy of beating the hour for the route. New PR up Keith and new power PRs for a full hour so happy with that.
https://www.zwiftpower.com/events.php?zid=167127