Not my experience at all, I normally find they won’t speak French to me
Likewise.
I guess to a large extent it depends where you are, but I broadly found the same. I wanted to try to speak 20-year old GCSE French partly for the challenge and partly because making the effort felt like the right thing to do, rather than being the stereotypical Brit shouting "OI GARKON, AVAY VOO ANY CHIPS?" But two sentences in they'd almost invariably switch to fluent English, which was kind and all and made things a lot easier, but I really should've learned the French for "I'm trying to practice my French".
I did have one memorable exchange in a random bakery in the middle of nowhere, I don't think the owner had even seen an English person before let alone spoken the language so it wholly down to me. I managed to pull together sufficient pigeon French to place an order, I was quite pleased with that.
I’ve got a GCSE in spanish (A grade). I could barely ask for a beer now.
I think that's the only Spanish sentence I actually know!
30+ years in a very technical field here and I have used my languages (all of which GCSE level or worse) at work.
It gives you that extra dimension, whether it's putting doubt in a colleague's mind about how much you know so they stop having HUGELY LOUD phonecalls in their native language with their sister in Manchester, whether it's skimming through case notes and noticing some basic "does it do X if you switch Y on?" has been translated as "Does it do X if you switch Y *off*?", whether it's buttering up a team that owes you nothing by giving their language a go even if it's v v basic stuff like, "Is Bert in the office? We've got a meeting now...Can you tell him? Thanks!" Or having the confidence to look after yourself at a conference abroad.
I also used what I'd learned on actual product related stuff, like noticing that a translation looks off, or understanding why there's an issue translating a form layout, or understanding you can't (e.g) lower-case a Japanese character and you certainly can't lowercase the first half of one!
Whether the GCSE as such is needed absolutely to get on a course - probably not though.
However. I've personally used my rubbish foreign language abilities much more than any of my technical qualifications, even maths A level. It doesn't really date and with a bit of buffing it's surprising how much can come back even after decades.
So I'd say, consider the two things separately. If she's not keen on the GCSE, after due consideration, then fair enough but bribe her to teach herself the language of her choice on her own time.
Remember it's not just "speaking French" (say), it's learning *how" to learn a foreign language, learning how language itself *works*, finding out how language and culture intertwine (important for business etiquette...).
I kind of think a well rounded education needs it.
I will add, on a ladies specific topic, having enough French to (with the aid of Google Translate) find an open pharmacy on a Sunday and purchase the right medication for a most uncomfortable and urgent personal medical problem (#lesdawsonmoment) and understand why there was an extra 5€ charge... I was most grateful to Mrs F (who may or may not still be alive now!) my secondary school French teacher....
A question for those who did a language at school and consider it a waste of time because they can’t speak it now. How would you get on if you had to redo all your exams?
Give me a week to cram, I reckon I could do it. History and English Lit likely the hardest to do this with.
There are some things that just require memorising, although I guess you could say that a language is no different.
Only when you take a subject to A level and University do you realise how laughably little content there was at GCSE level for most subjects which is kind of understandable when you think that kids have to divide thier time between 10-12 of the them.
I should add to the above, I am a fan of learning languages, in case anyone thinks I am against it. I just think it is done particlarly badly in schools currently, and we start far too late.
Additional story, when revising for my Spanish GCSE, part of the speaking portion just required you to say a passage you had pre-learnt and memorised.
My mum helped me learn it, and got so exasperated by my general incompetence with the language (she spoke no Spanish, but did French, German and Russian at school) that I still remember he saying that I was so bad that if I got an A* she would write to the exam board and ask them to lower my grade.
remember he saying that I was so bad that if I got an A* she would write to the exam board and ask them to lower my grade.
My french teacher caught me in the corridor after my GCSE results and said, in her thick french accent 'at Tom, you got an A - zat is a miracle!' and my dad genuinely asked me if I'd collected the correct results.
How I got an A is anyone's guess - I was utterly terrible at French and had never been (tho as I said earlier in this thread, I now love French/France to bits and would do anything to be fluent and live there again).
We’ll give it some thought, she actually didn’t do too badly in French on her last report, I think it’s just there are other GCSEs she would prefer. The other option is she does 10 instead of 9 but she’d get reduced hours in science.
I’d also heard people talking about the English baccalaureate and did a bit of Googling at it seems this requires a language.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/english-baccalaureate-ebacc/english-baccalaureate-ebacc
First time I've heard of Ebacc, looks good for most of the students most of the time.
I will add, on a ladies specific topic, having enough French to (with the aid of Google Translate) find an open pharmacy on a Sunday and purchase the right medication for a most uncomfortable and urgent personal medical problem (#lesdawsonmoment) and understand why there was an extra 5€ charge… I was most grateful to Mrs F (who may or may not still be alive now!) my secondary school French teacher….
Reminds me of trying to get some drugs from a pharmacie in 'bleau and trying to explain that the wife was breast feeding so need to be aware of what it contains. Have to be honest I ended up miming it, but now never forget ( not that it'll be any use whatsoever in future "Elle attend le baby" or something.
But two sentences in they’d almost invariably switch to fluent English, which was kind and all and made things a lot easier,
You're just not trying hard enough. That's the game, continuing in their language until the other person breaks or you can't find the words. I've only ever won in German, french and occasionally Turkish ( not because im any good, more because their English was even worse)
The weirdest one was in an Italian restaurant in Wales when the waiter started chatting to [up] my missus in German. The conversation went on a bit and then afterwards I asked for the bill in Italian. He replied in German to my missus that he didn't speak Italian as he was Turkish. So I switched and asked for the bill in Turkish instead.
He was completely flummoxed that I had understood everything that was said and then managed to switch from his second language to his first.
Love speaking foreign languages...
( Yeah, I know CSB, sorry)
The other option is she does 10 instead of 9 but she’d get reduced hours in science.
I only did Latin O level as it meant I could drop Rugby. Hated sport at school.
I wouldn't get too worried about GCSE subjects anyway, there's plenty of time and opportunity for her life to go in any direction she chooses. I'm sure we all know people who went to university to study a niche and carefully chosen subject only to end up in a completely different career path.
She is more interested in science/technology and doesn’t see the point in studying a language as it will take away another choice and “everyone speaks English anyway” – her words not mine, but I see her point.
All the science is moving to Europe, albeit slowly - and the pay is higher over here.
She won't be respected if she doesn't know one of the main languages, eg German.
Your daughters age is the perfect age to learn a language and avoid becoming a typical pig ignorant Brit, science can come later.
I say that as someone in Pharma.
“In Germany when you introduce yourself as an engineer you get invited in to meet the Daughter."
My understanding is that in most countries "Engineer" is a protected term, like Doctor, or Architect. You have to have completed specific learning to quite a high level and be registered with a governing body.
You cant be a "TV Engineer", you would be a Technician
(as i understand it/so ive been told)
Basically tho the younger you are the better the language sticks so GCSE or not (separate issue) it's in her interest to study language (s) now.
Google Goggles
In 20/10/5/2 years time someone will talk to you in a foreign language and your Google Goggles will instantly translate and broadcast into the ear piece.
However, there is probably a very good argument for learning a language for the sake of the actual learning rather than the end result. It, no doubt, broadens the way you learn and gets you thinking in a different manner, which I'd imagine is a good thing.
Oh and Morecash .... RE as a compulsory... My understanding is that RE is really quite easy and is taken to get the actual number of good GCSE grades up. There is also a lot of philosophy to it.
Goods luck
I have a degree in German. Why did I pursue a language? At 15 I went on my first skiing holiday to Austria and loved it. That was the life for me. So I did German A-Level and went on to University. How has it benefitted me, or otherwise?
During my year out in Germany, I spent the 2 month semester break in St Anton working and skiing (and drinking). It was great fun, the best of times. After University, I went back to St. Anton. This time, I got the only job with a British holiday company that required German language - I was the Hotel receptionist. It was the most boring, lonely job in the company. Non-German speakers worked in the bar, ski guiding, waiting - all the fun jobs. The boredom and "loneliness" of the job triggered drinking beyond any scale I've known before or since. If I'd been more grown up about it, there were better options. But the lifestyle dictated... After that winter, I worked in the German speaking Dolomites for a summer. Again, the best of times.
After that, I could have stayed working in the tourism industry and arguably should have to follow my dreams. Instead, a bit of a shakedown by my Dad at the time for "bumming about" made me look for "proper" jobs and I got on a graduate IT recruitment scheme, nothing to do with German but of course wouldn't have got it without a degree. I looked for jobs with German - they consisted largely of low paid, IT helpdesk work servicing German speaking countries. And I'd have had to move to London / home counties.
Since then, I haven't spoken a needed word of German. It is now a comedy party piece to rattle off a few phrases in a parody accent. I remember more than enough to get by when on holiday, drunken conversations with taxi drivers are the extent of it.
Would I do a language if I had my time again? No. Unless you have a clearly identified need for it in a future career, any talk about "employers will look favourably on a language" is bollocks. "They all speak English" is pretty much true. I never went anywhere with German and didn't feel like my German-speaking pals couldn't easily switch into English to a standard I was never going to achieve with German. I had one summer job after Uni when I was asked to speak with a German supplier. The product was so niche that getting to grips with it in English was hard enough and after half a phone call trying to converse on the subject in German, we switched to English and that was that.
I could have followed a different path, used my German and be in a totally different life right now. Any of my Uni colleagues who I know use their language are either teachers or live in the country of their language. To think it enhances your career prospects in any other given path... I haven't seen any evidence of that.
Learning a 2nd language at an earlier age (4.5yrs creates connections in the brain that can hel raise results in STem subjects (theoretically) but can also interfere with 1st language grammar.
Learning French, oder Deutsches, seems pretty useless in the global community. But since GCSEs are a fart in the wind as you progress through FE and HE, the value of learning a 2nd language are more than "I an speak/lisen/read/write a bit of it". With language comes culture. All education should be good, if pathway, and education opens doors. Only 0.5% of undergraduates leave the UK for work every year, with slightly less than that returning.
“I don’t know anyone who passed a GCSE language qualification and can hold a conversation in that language.”
For counter argument, I took GCSE French and didn’t use it for five years. A trip to Algeria where the language choices were Arabic (not a word) or dig into the recesses of my brain for residual French. It’s amazing what comes back when you need it.
I went and did a summer school in Perpignan the year after to improve it - partly because I was amazed so much had stuck and wanted to consolidate.
Last month I had a work conversation with a French client about transport data where it was handy that we were both prepared to use our passable second language skills.
I’d say do it - you never know where life will take you and having exercised that bit of your brain lays a foundation that will make your horizons bigger.
Jimmy's long response above is spot on. Absolutely excellent.
People say that 'Nation x are rude' and I bet its because they didn't even start with a basic greeting or use thank you.
To not even try to speak another language in another country is poor, no two ways about it - the issue for the UK (and USA etc) is that the world 2nd language is English so it's such an easy choice for everyone else. We struggle to choose and as a result end up with a varying degree of lots of other languages.
OP, I'd say french if she really needs to decide because she'll have done more of that in school than anything else.
I have an Italian Father In Law and during lockdown I've been trying to get better at italian but it's a slog, I'm still stuck at little more than yes/no/beer, whereas if I got a book on how to speak french I could get a lot of the school skill back in place and be a lot further ahead than italian, partly through school retained knowledge but also having been on holiday in france and used it more than other places.
I spoke to the school and they are still really insistent she does it. I’m concerned it comes down to their ebacc ratings and also that Ofsted mark schools down for low language uptake rather than it being the best option for my daughter.
I also wonder if it is to do with scheduling the timetable as they are saying they expect all the brighter kids to do a MFL while the lower attaining kids are let off the hook. Maybe it messes up the streams for English/Maths etc. If they are expecting the brighter kids to be in MFL lessons at certain times in the week?
I studied German and French GCSE. I don't recall it being at the expense of anything else I wanted to do, but I took 11 GCSE's.
I didn't study either language out of any burning desire or planned career path but I'm glad I did for many reasons - a few of which are:
1) The French and German exchanges were great experiences
2) In my 20's, I got a job at a company with a large German site. Although they all spoke excellent English, the limited German I could recall was genuinely appreciated by my colleagues and helped when I used to travel to Germany on a regular basis (particularly with local Taxi drivers)
3) Later in my career, I ended up working on a joint venture with an Austrian company. Their English was not excellent, but between my limited German and their limited English we were able to hold conversations
4) I was an auditor for a while and several suppliers were French companies. Again, my limited conversational French was surprisingly useful
I spoke to the school and they are still really insistent she does it.
Is this new policy, or when you chose your child's school, did they say at that point what they expect of their students (bright ones have to keep to a broad curriculum and not drop the subjects they find hard).
I spoke to the school and they are still really insistent she does it
She should do what is right for her, not for the school.
If there is no demand she does one, only a request, then don't put one down. If that's what she wants, obviously.
As mentioned, we're at the same stage. The school 'wants' him to do a language, but until it's 'must' there are other subjects more suited to him
And I realise the benefits of a MFL; our office is mostly French, with large numbers of Spanish and German.
Is this new policy, or when you chose your child’s school, did they say at that point what they expect of their students (bright ones have to keep to a broad curriculum and not drop the subjects they find hard).
I think this is new as they admitted they recently identified the numbers doing ebacc was low and wanted to get the numbers up. It’s not really a case of not wanting to do something that is hard, it’s about having other subjects she prefers and will likely do better in and are more aligned with her future career aspirations.
'I could barely ask for a beer'
Careful not to confuse 'caña' with 'coño'.
Careful not to confuse ‘caña’ with ‘coño’.
Particularly if it's a waitress serving you.
