[Closed] Young babies on bikes

Baby in a car seat, in a kiddie trailer is what I used.

Cue the STW H&S hand wringers....

My understanding is that the age ranges are given to ensure that the child is well developed enough to support their own head (+helmet) without it wobbling around as you cycle. As I recall, at around three months you're still giving a lot of head and neck support when you pick the child up...

Car seat in trailer idea as above sounds a reasonable way around the problem, especially if it's the lie flat kind of 'seat', but it's not something I'd do.

I really wouldn't, but it's your baby.

*off to buy some luxury cookies from M&S for this thread*

as iDave says... i'm sure people will be along soon to tell your you're a horrible parent and might as well throw your baby at spikes dipped in poison.

if it was me i'd gaffa tape it to the toptube so you can glance down and check it's ok during jumps and drops.

You won't get far with a normal bike seat - as Markie said they need to have proper head/neck support for that which a 12 week old won't be close to having yet.

papoose on your chest as used by millions of european cyclists or as idave says

In the UK we have a crazy attitude to this. In most of Europe its quite normal to take a baby on a bike - papoose until its old enough to sit well then front mounted seat. This is what my Amsterdam living sister did and its the norm there

I didn't take my kid out in a bike-seat until he was able to hold his head up for long periods with a proper helmet on. Not much less than a year old, I think.

You can take them out when they're younger but if you want to avoid breaking your sprog's neck, you'll need a proper trailer that can take a car seat or a special sling so they can stay lying down and strapped in securely. Some people take tinies in a baby bjorn body-sling type thing; that might work, I suppose.

I'd have to be really confident in those 1970s brakes and fittings, too...

At that age a bike trailer is the only thing that is going to be recommended. My Croozer (with special Baby Sling bit) said gentle cycling from 12 weeks. I think I'd have been fine with a pootle down to the shops. I took her running in another pram with car seat fitted at that age and that was fine.

The downside is that a)they are jolly big, and b)the only ones with decent baby seat bits are the expensive ones - Croozer is I think the cheapest, and you're looking at well over £300. The Croozer is brilliant though - well worth the money, and lasts until the baby is a decent size, so maybe think of it as a long term purchase, you need to have one anyway!

Some people just carry babies in a sling / baby bjorn, (something that supports their head well) and cycle around with them. It doesn't feel safe to me though.

Joe

I used the same approach as iDave. Obviously you take it easy and don't try to jump on speed bumps etc - but having carefully watched the bouncing our little one got in the trailer the other half concluded it was no worse than in a buggy/jogging.

If you have shed loads of money then the Chariot trailer comes with a sort of hammock thing for really young kids.

You'll not get a helmet to fit properly whatever you do which means that most people will look in horror. I have however crashed a pram with a child in it who wasn't wearing a helmet and can confirm that survival is a possible outcome!

In most of Europe its quite normal to take a baby on a bike

Means nothing. In most of Europe it's quite normal to smoke like a chimney in front of your kids, stub fags out in their sandpits and let your dog sh*t all over their playing fields.

For me, it's trailer with either big soft tyres or suspension, very smooth trails or ultra quiet wide roads or pavements/cycleways, and kid in a car seat or specialist baby hammock in the trailer.

Wouldn't put a kid in a child seat until way after they could hold their head up. Holding it up whilst sitting around playing is different to being forced to hold it up for hours on end whilst being rattled around with a helmet on.

Also would not put a kid in a papoose on a bike unless it's a vertical sit-up one. My stem and bars are just too close for my comfort.

Oh and BTW Chariot say no cycling less than one year - this is just to comply with US legistlation in some states I reckon. Aren't they made by the same people as Croozer anyway?

12 weeks is way too early IMHO, ours is nearly six months and he's not ready (he's probably slightly above ave. size). IMHO Cycling with a baby in a papoose is nothing like walking, as the forces you put on a baby if things go wrong on a bike would be much greater then walking.

TJ - do you know what a 12 week old baby is like?

Lodious - yes. My nephews were both on a bike from 8 weeks old in a papoose. I rode a bike with one on at 18 weeks old in a handlebar mounted seat.

Perfectly normal thing to do in most of Europe and there is no great epidemic of dead babies.

TJ - do you know what a 12 month old baby is like?

DON'T wind him up!

Perfectly normal thing to do in most of Europe and there is no great epidemic of dead babies.

That's not what we're saying will happen is it, you stupid sod... AARGH NOO STOOOOPPP!!!

Lol @ philconsequence.
The trailer with proper seat attached sounds like the best option to me.

trailer with car seat or specific baby hammock in it.
That said, I didn't start that early with my child.

Molgrips what are you on about? Why if its perfectly normal and safe inmost of Europe is it tottally unsafe here?

iDave - Member

Cue the STW H&S hand wringers....

so predictable.

TJ - do you know what a 12 old baby is like?

TJ - I honestly think you don't know what your talking about and your 'advice' is dangerous. IMHO 8 weeks is too young to even walk in a papoose, it take a baby on a bike at that age is crazy.

Lodious - all I am telling you is what my sister did with her kids. 8 weeks too young to walk with a kid in a papoose? How on earth do you get anywhere ever? Clearly dutch kids are made of different stuff to UK ones

Bike seats are fine as long as you make sure they can't fall out.

[img] [/img]

until the baby's neck is strong enough to support it own head then a papoose or a trailer is a bad idea imho.

after that point, i can't see a problem with either.

i can't actually remember how old they usually are when this happens.

IMHO 8 weeks is too young to even walk in a papoose

Perfectly normal thing to do in most of Europe and there is no great epidemic of dead babies

...but most of Europe is a lot more cycle-friendly anyway, isn't it? I wouldn't like to ride my bike on the roads around the Peak District with a baby strapped to my front. Tissington Trail I could cope with if I had a sit-up-and-beg-bike. My brother's place in Sweden is a great example. Loads of bike trails means you hardly ever have to ride on the road to get from a to b.

Clearly dutch kids are made of different stuff to UK ones

Ha ha, you really don't help yourself do you?

I wouldn't put an 8 week old in one of those big backpack style papooses that they need to sit up in, but one of those sling-like front carriers gives plenty of neck support. AFAIK it is still called a papoose, so before we all fall out, let's agree on what a "papoose" is 😉

Two bungee cords and strap it to the handlebars length ways, use an extra on round it's head if your concerned about neck strength:

Any whining and just tell the baby to BTHFU!

IMHO 8 weeks is too young to even walk in a papoose

Depends on the 'papoose' in question. Fabric wrap around front carrier - great. Some rucksacky types - perhaps not. I've seen some kids being majorly jiggled about like ragdolls in those Tomy front mounted ones.

FWIW in Germany most people ride sat-upright city bikes for their general toddling about needs. Lots and lots of trailers in evidence too, although I've never seen a kid being carried on a cyclist's person. However their general cycle craft is diabolical, I'm amazed I haven't seen more carnage.

still tortoise - the one my sister used was a front mounted one with a head support

Oh and BTW Chariot say no cycling less than one year - this is just to comply with US legistlation in some states I reckon. Aren't they made by the same people as Croozer anyway?

TJ - I honestly think you don't know what your talking about and your 'advice' is dangerous. IMHO 8 weeks is too young to even walk in a papoose, it take a baby on a bike at that age is crazy.

Perfectly normal thing to do in most of Europe and there is no great epidemic of dead babies.

one of those big backpack style papooses that they need to sit up in

until the baby's neck is strong enough to support it own head then a papoose or a trailer is a bad idea imho.

but if its in a car seat in the trailer then whats the problem.

also, I wouldn't worry about a helmet in a trailer, my 1 year old doesn't wear one. the chances of anything happening while I pootle about on cycle paths are virtually zero.

OK TJ, can you kind [i]any[/i] manufacturer of papooses who suggest their products are suitable for babies less then three months (you can include dutch manufacturers if you like)?

I'm genuinely interested.

Edit - I found one....looks like i'm gonna get some abuse ;-(

Right so we'll cut this short:
Many people have different opinions about this subject.

Look at your child and think carefully abt what they are doing and how they are doing it. Is the baby turning it's head on it's own yet? Are they holding their head up on their own? Do they still do the 'wobble' and lose control if you turn them rather suddenly or if they startle? -

If they do not have control of their head at all times then a bike seat with helmet is not an option yet for you.
This leaves you with the option of a car seat secured in a bike trailer, a special baby sling secured in a trailer, or riding with the baby in a carrier of some sort on your person.

You can get trailers second hand for cheap and with some thought and consideration can probably rig up the straps for the car seat. Have a good look at the trailer options you have available to you and the carseat you have at your disposal. If you feel that spending the money on a trailer is too much and you won't use it enough in the future it might still not be the option for you.
The last option of carrier/bike is possible but you must consider the situation which you will be riding your bike. Are you very upright so the head of the baby will still be supported by you chest? or will you be rather sloped meaning support would still be needed for the head? How close are the tubes and handlebars if an accident does occur? Do you feel that the baby and you will be able to safely survive and not be injured if a fall occurs? (will you end up being too nervous to ride in this manner?)

Our children are precious as we all know and we want to do what's best for them as well as make our own lives as easy as possible. Hopefully you can find a good solution or compromise to the problem of getting to the shops easily.

car seat in a car or taxi, job done.

I already answered that, lodious.

Lodious

http://www.babybjorn.co.uk/products/baby-carriers/baby-carrier-miracle/baby-carrier-miracle/

Perfect fit from newborn

can you kind any manufacturer of papooses who suggest their products are suitable for babies less then three months

[url= http://www.babybjorn.com/us/products/baby-carriers/ ]Baby Bjorn[/url] is what we used from birth, great little things, provide loads of support for the kid's head.

Good post there honey 🙂

Re trailers being expensive - a large number of people on here have a shed full of bikes of value that dwarfs the cost of a Chariot.

Perfect fit from newborn

Hmm.. lots of space to roll that head around though. Personally I favour this - more secure imo.

[img] http://www.bohoboxmoor.com/.a/6a00e553b3d18788340134859983de970c-800wi [/img]

I've got a babybjorn, brilliant item

Very sensible answer there by mrsgrips. I'm personally still uncomfortable with car seat in trailer at that age due to the higher level of vibrations compared to a car (we first used a trailer with car seat at ~6 months IIRC).

TJ is a non-parent. He has seen other parents doing things before, therefore quotes that as a way forward for parents. He therefore has a point and it should be placed in order of merit along with his views on how to defuse bombs, his experiences with the Mars space program and his thoughts on Scotland.

A baby car seat strapped into a baby trailer is the nearest thing to safe I have seen for such an infant. I didn't do that with ours as I didn't think it was safe enough. Once she reached 6 months old we ventured out and then it was borderline (IMHO) but we were all happy with it.

We used a Baby Bjorn - but I would NEVER have ridden a bike with it on - ever.

Hey, I feel like an overprotective parent for the first time....I like it!

I'm off to holland next week, so I'll do a straw poll on what age the kids are going on bikes.

We took our little one out at 6 weeks in the trailer. I watched her get jiggled around a lot even on really smooth surfaced trails and me taking it uber gently. They just aren't very solid when they are young. However she did sleep peacefully and it's impossible to tell if they are being stressed physically without an MRI scan I suppose.

i've been researching stats for babies injured or killed in biking accidents whilst gaffa taped to the toptube.... so far i'm 120% certain that i'm right, there's no point trying to argue with me as i'm always right. here's a picture of a tube station. hang on? sorry got a bit carried away... no injuries or deaths from my gaffa tape method... i think you'll all find my way is safest. remember to hydrate though! you dont want your kid missing out on your rad skills because you havent drunk enough water to concentrate on those drops!

Phil seems to be suffering from STW delirium.

My son went into a Topeak Babysitter seat at three months. I rolled up towels to chocj him and hold his head in place. The bike fell over with him in it on one of the first rides and he was fine, the harness holding him in place. At five months he did his first cyclosportive which included the Col d'Aspin and at seven months 700km of cycletouring in a week. He usually fell asleep within a few minutes and didn't wake till hungry about three hours later. When awake he was as happy as could be.

TJ is a non-parent. He has seen other parents doing things before, therefore quotes that as a way forward for parents. He therefore has a point and it should be placed in order of merit along with his views on how to defuse bombs, his experiences with the Mars space program and his thoughts on Scotland.

That's a bit low, attack the argument, not the arguer.

I would imagine being jiggled around on a trip to the shops is somewhat less physically traumatic than the trip through the birth canal

Perhaps in a different way. But being born isn't exactly trivial is it?

If you see a baby left unattended in a bike seat, is it reasonable to ride off on the bike so that they don't get distressed?

Molgrips, that looks like the best solution. The only questions being, 1) do they come in my size and 2)Are you sure that tidy type won't mind?

However, agree with the more robust solutions here. I took my twins out from 3 weeks old, just gaffa taped one to my downtube and hung the other from the bars.

Peyote - I'm sorry you failed to see the humour in my post. However, knowing how my view on all things children changed when I became a parent, the underlying point still stands.

To add to the differrences between Amsterdam and the UK - can we define how much safer it is to travel by bicycle it is there anyway? I'd treat cycling differently if I lived there - with their greater respect for cycling, better infrastructure etc.

Sorry CM I am not sure I understand your question.. Is this what you Earth people call 'humour' ?

Sorry CM I am not sure I understand your question..

Which one?

That one.

difficult question to answer and no-one is 'right'

it all comes down to your own personal acceptance of risk & responsibility. Location/duration/equipment/consequence/likelihood are down to the parent and no-one else.

Personally I didn't consider riding with my sons until they were both able to sit unaided and had demonstrably strong necks. Even then it was only short visits, on quiet roads at quiet times.

My kids, my responsibility

Depends on the 'papoose' in question. Fabric wrap around front carrier - great. Some rucksacky types - perhaps not. I've seen some kids being majorly jiggled about like ragdolls in those Tomy front mounted ones

I did notice that the front ones that I have seen (including Baby Bjorn) specifically say don't use for cycling. Whether this is just a regulatory issue I don't know. My worry would be that if you crashed then the consequences are likely to be much more serious for the child with the weight of you behind it squishing it into the top tube or the door of a car. This is purely fear rather than statistically based but in this case I prefer to be cautious.

edit: just to add, when mine were young I used a trailer even in traffic as I noticed that cars gave the trailer a much wider berth than just a bike with a child seat and once you get used to it you can get through some quite small spaces

Peyote - I'm sorry you failed to see the humour in my post. However, knowing how my view on all things children changed when I became a parent, the underlying point still stands.

Ah. 😳 Didn't realise it was tongue in cheek!

Interestingly, my view on all things children didn't change drastically when I became a parent. Expecting another one along shortly so it may change then, but we'll see...

One of our baby slings says on the advice that came with it not to use it for downhill skiing. I think that advice is aimed at Scandinavians who perhaps use skiing as more of a mode of transport than the British!

Joe

I am by no means an adult and qualified to answer this properly, but my 3 cents are that I once saw a dad go up something steep with his baby on a seat on the back and tall over backwards landing on the baby. Not a good thing to watch!

We use one of those Baby Bjorn thingies and find it to be excellent. Little _mw's head is supported by a collar that comes all the way up to the top of her head - when she's bigger, it'll fold down and she'll be put in the other way around and look forwards. It is possible to get this collar tight enough that she can't move her head at all, not very comfortable I assume, but it gives an idea of how much support is offered. The minimum size of baby is 8lb, so we had to wait a couple of weeks for her to fatten up before using it, but I guess that for many kids that means it's suitable for use from birth.
Personally, I wouldn't cycle with her in it, but maybe that's a reflection on my riding ability, or lack therof!

I once saw a dad go up something steep with his baby on a seat on the back and tall over backwards landing on the baby.

No, you didn't. That never happens. People in the Netherlands ride with babies all the time, and there are still living Dutch babies. Impossible.

EDIT: actually wait - there isn't anything steep in the Netherlands is there?

My views are similar to BenMW. Don't have a baby yet but she was due on the 21st. I think I'd be too nervous with the papoose (and my missus wouldn't have allowed it anyway) to enjoy the ride much. She'll be walked about in the Babybjorn from fairly early on though. It's surely a personal decision and I'm looking forward to getting a trailer for off road. I'll be interested if my views change after the birth. I'm fairly relaxed about these sorts of things usually. I feel that TJ's experience is just as valid as other peoples BTW.

One thing I'd point out is that it could be safer than taking your baby in a car and no-one gives that a second thought

We do give it a second thought. We research our baby car seats carefully...

Anyway, where's postierich when you need him?

You've misunderstood me molgrips. I mean that people don't consider the risk of simply undertaking a car journey.

Hmm...

One thing I'd point out is that it could be safer than taking your baby in a car and no-one gives that a second thought

This is one of the things that makes me laugh. You will put a baby in a car seat and drive at 80 mph but not in the same seat in a bike trailer at 10 mph.

Postirich - is he not in jail for taking his baby out on his bike?

TJ, that's cos we are worrying about different things. My car has nice suspension to iron out shaking. Plus it's big enough not to get crushed beneath the wheels of another vehicle - monster trucks excepted.

But its not a rational approach to risk. In a car speeds thus momenteum are much higher. You are just accustomed to be thinking your car is safe and your bike is not despite the facts.

Here we go, off on a (pointless) tangent...

<fights urge to join in>

You are just accustomed to be thinking your car is safe and your bike is not despite the facts

I ride my bike a lot, I clearly don't think it's unsafe.

However I appreciate that towing a baby a few feet behind me below bumper-height is putting the baby in significantly more danger than I am high up riding the bike...

And btw the approach to risk IS plenty rational, what's different here is evaluation of criteria.

At 12 weeks old my son was cycling and hucking jumps. He thought he was' all that ' until he only came third in a local elite xc race. That put the little show off on his place.....

After that he was to ashamed to cycle, so used his croozer trailer from then onwards.....

DrP

A baby on my bike is definately unsafe...I just don't have the skillz

At 12 weeks old my son was cycling and hucking jumps. He thought he was' all that ' until he only came third in a local elite xc race. That put the little show off on his place..

yeah, that's right. My foetus pwned him that day!

However I appreciate that towing a baby a few feet behind me below bumper-height is putting the baby in significantly more danger than I am high up riding the bike...

If you take it on roads.

Oh one more (small) point abt trailers that I thought about while having my nap... the dust/dirt 'spray' issue. When using the trailer even with mud guards on your bike there may be dirt flecks which reach your little one even through the mesh of the front 'window.'
Might or might not be a problem in your mind.
However, ff the trailer has a rain cover you can pull this down over the front and the flecks cannot get in, tho then you may have over heating issues in the hot sun... so you'd need to double check air-circulation in the back and sides of any trailer is available.

-just trying to think of things not necessarily obvious to help you make your decision

If you take it on roads.

Which I don't, for the above reasons 🙂