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Bought some 'Lowa Boots Black Waterproof Gore-tex Zip-up Snow Winter ~ Size UK 9 1/2' on Fleabay in April this year with the intention of using them this winter for sea fishing off the pier. Paid with PP, delivery was quick, they fit fine & felt warm enough so I left positive feedback & chucked them in the cupboard.
I've used them twice (exactly twice) since the start of November & the soles are falling apart. I reckon I must have walked at most 1km in them, from the car onto the pier & back, twice.
I emailed the seller asking for a refund saying they weren't fit for purpose & that I was now dubious about their authenticity. She didn't reply after 2 days so my wife emailed her about another item she had for sale & guess what, she got an answer within 5 hrs. So I mailed her again, once more voicing my concerns. I also mentioned, rightly or wrongly, that I had spoken to a family member who's a trading standards officer about the issue (he said what I already knew, to speak to her first)
Soon after I received the following email....
Your email has raised several points and I will endeavour to answer each in order.
Yes I did receive your message through eBay yesterday and due to its content, it was not one I could answer quickly. I would have contacted you very soon and it was not necessary for you to get your wife to fish for a response from me. I needed to acquaint myself with your purchase and the condition of the boots etc.
The Lowa boots were 100% authentic. You were happy when you received the boots. You have owned them for approximately 8 months. How often you have or have not worn the boots is impossible for me to know. How they have been treated over 8 months is impossible for me to know. I could take your word for it, but you seem rather underhand in your manner for me to trust your word. I have come to this conclusion due to 1) asking your wife to contact me regarding a bogus issue 2) attempting to intimidate me by saying you have a friend in Trading Standards 3) threatening my good standing with my eBay feedback, which is against eBay regulations. Have you forgotten you have already left me positive feedback which can't be withdrawn?
Any way, back to the issue of the boots. You have owned them far too long to be able to expect, or in your wording 'demand' a refund.
If you have any other course of action please take it without contacting me in such an intimidating and threatening manner.
For a start, yes I was happy when I received the boots which is why I left positive feedback.
Oh yes, I always wear winter snowboots in the summer months don't I?
I don't have a 'friend' in trading standards (ok so he is a friend but he is also my BIL)
I didn't 'demand' a refund, I said I expected one.
Anyway, I've emailed Lowa to see if they can clarify if they ever even made that style of boots in the first place & if they didn't I'll be reporting her to Ebay.
Well, you gets what ya pays for I suppose. 😕
I share the sellers thoughts and posistion.
£45 for gore Tex boots sounds worryingly cheap...and you don't know if it's a genuine model of theirs?
I share the sellers thoughts and posistion.
For me this would depend on whether the seller is a "business" selling more than one pair of the boots as new items (in which case I would expect some form of redress) or if it's a private seller who sold on a single pair of boots regardless of whether they were in new or used condition (in which case I'd expect the response that you got)
Sorry - after 8 months nothing you really can do ebay or not.
OP cant be serious?
My first reaction is that 8 months is a long delay before querying a purchase.
Secondly, there has been a thread on another forum about people buying, or rediscovering, old boots and finding that they fall apart fairly quickly. I think the conclusion was that the glues used to bond the bits of sole together deteriorate over time and you could simply be beyond the 'life' of the boots.
Did you buy off a business or a person? If it's the latter then give it up, I'd tell you to sling your hook after 8 months too.
If it's a business then that would change things a little. could get in touch with the UK agents to get them to check if the boots are real or not.
I share the sellers thoughts and posistion.
Yep, after 8 months it's just [s]bad luck[/s] tough.
£45 for gore Tex boots sounds worryingly cheap...and you don't know if it's a genuine model of theirs?
Not really, I sold some £300 Ski boots I'd used twice, got the princely sum of £45 for them! Some stuff just doesn't have much 2nd hand value.
Op, jog on. Way too late to do anything. If I were the seller, I wouldn't have bothered responding to you.
And I totally agree that the glues deteriorate with age even of not used.
I collect old nikes and they can be as new but fall apart after a single use.
Chalk it up to Experience and but something else.
I think it boils down to 2 options
You bought the boots new from a retailer. If so the sale of goods act applies and you have a case. The fact that the retailer uses ebay makes no difference
You bough them used from a private seller in which case you don't have any grounds for redress
PS I think that unless you are sure she was deliberately selling fake goods it would be harsh to pursure through ebay for selling fake goods
If it's a business then that would change things a little. could get in touch with the UK agents to get them to check if the boots are real or not.
'Coz £150 boots can often be had for a mere 45 notes. 😆
I share the sellers position.
+1000
Come on Op really !!
Maybe just buy on ebay only when you need item and intend to use soon.
Understand OP as I would be equally dissatisfied if product was not fit for purpose but.....time elapsed is, well, extended so understand response from seller.
Hmmm - memo to self.......
Coz £150 boots can often be had for a mere 45 notes
I didn't say the agent would entertain anyone 🙂
(Although some agents do sell returns/flaws on eBay for cheapness)
Never buy branded clothing from ebay unless the seller has a brick and mortar store, there is no reason to think the goods would be genuine otherwise
She's registered as a business seller.
They were advertised as new.
could get in touch with the UK agents to get them to check if the boots are real or not.
You didn't read the whole of my long drawn out post did you? (I'm waiting to hear from Lowa.)
And I totally agree that the glues deteriorate with age even of not used.
Err, right. At what age would glue deteriorate? The boots are 7 months old.
Should I have worn them for summer fishing do you think? (Goretex/winter/snow may be a little hint at why I didn't) Me & the Mrs have Lowa walking boots & even after 8-9 yrs the glue seems pretty much intact.
We'll see what Lowa come up with in the 1st instance.
You didn't read the whole of my long drawn out post did you? (I'm waiting to hear from Lowa.)
Nah must've given up by that point. You've emailed Lowa or TKC? Do you not know what model of boot it was you supposedly bought?
Which model? Were they Expectations?
I'm with the seller I'm afraid. Too long from sale to complaint and for £45 not worth the hassle
kuh!
What a whinger! You need this:
OP - Served!! 😀 Sorry!
8 months after purchase means you are probably just going to have accept you have wasted your money unfortunately. Put it down to experience and the risk you take when buying something cheap. Assuming the seller is genuine (may just be moving on goods they don't know are shoddy) I can understand their stance. Why not post your (unedited) message to her on here so we can decide if you were a dick?
There wasn't a puddle of toxic waste on the way to the pier was there?
7months in your possession and you started using them but how old are the boots really
Uv, age and temperature all kill rubbers and glues.
Sorry, OP, but I'm with the seller on this one and I'm surprised she even took the time to reply.
The seller was far politer to you than I would have been.
YABU 😀
Why not post your (unedited) message to her on here so we can decide if you were a dick?
Seconded, especially as the OP has posted the seller´s email in its entirety.
Too late to hassle the seller. If they are comfortable then take them to your local shoemender and get them to re-glue the soles
Sorry to say you are an eBay nightmare customer !
8 months and now you're complaining!
Get real OP !
£45 you've probably spent more on costa coffees in that time !
With the seller here
Err, right. At what age would glue deteriorate? The boots are 7 months old.
A few years from the date of manufacture. If the seller is getting rid of old stock then it's possible that the boots were already 3-4 years old when you got them.
If they're a true eBay shop then I think you have a case. Surely it's just a matter of reporting it to eBay though?
Another one for the seller camp if anyone's keeping count.
For balance, lets see the email that you sent her.
Don't think either is coming out of that well tbh but personally I wouldn't take the seller's aggressiveness as a good sign.
Since they were sold as new by a business seller, normal warranty routes should be open to you? 8 month lapse makes no odds there.
One vote for the op here.
The warranty period on Lowa shoes is 12 months. Tell her you'd like to submit them for warranty and if she refuses raise the issue with eBay and Lowa. Of course you aren't being unreasonable, you're still within Lisa's warranty period and your boots fell apart.
Don't think either is coming out of that well tbh but personally I wouldn't take the seller's aggressiveness as a good sign.
What aggression? As said, she's being far politer than most of us would have been...
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8 months lapse does make a difference Northwind. Up to 6 months its for the retailer to show its not a manufacturing fault, after 6 months its up to the buyer to prove it is a manufacturing fault. NO right to a full refund after 30 days now anyway
A few years from the date of manufacture. If the seller is getting rid of old stock then it's possible that the boots were already 3-4 years old when you got them.
I've had this issue with a few pairs of shoes/boots over the last few years. The sole of a pair of Salomon hiking boots that I'd not used for about 5 years disintegrated when I did. The sole on a pair of Blundstone boots just came off in lumps.
Given that most of the plastic waste we produce will be in near identical condition in a couple of millenia it's a bit surprising that some of the materials used in modern kit break down so quickly.
8 months lapse does make a difference Northwind. Up to 6 months its for the retailer to show its not a manufacturing fault, after 6 months its up to the buyer to prove it is a manufacturing fault.
its not always that clear cut...it depends on the retailers policy for returns and refunds and how they interpret consumer laws and rights and what is a reasonable life cycle for a shoe given its intended use.
for example: many years ago i bought a pair of Nike ACG Gore Tex running shoes..after 6 weeks of wearing them to walk to university and back the tread had worn down and on the right shoe the tread had come loose and had a gaping big hole. took them back to the store and the manager admitted this should not have happened and he sent them back to head office for inspection. they sent them back 2 weeks later saying that even though it was labelled as a rugged outdoor shoe that this was to be expected and it was wear and tear...£85 down the drain...as much as i complained they refused to budge on that
last year i bought a pair of Adidas Gore Tex running shoes and after 8 months the tread started to wear at an alarming rate. contacted the retailer and explained the issue and also pointed out that my 5 year old Adidas Gore Tex running shoes had less wear on them. they asked me to return them for inspection. 1 week later i got a full refund for the shoes and the cost of the return shipping
it is really that clear cut. its what the law says
Warranty issue surely but I guess the manufacturer should come back and tell you that.
I'm with the op on this one, although I wouldn't have used the trading standards tactic. Clearly your 'all guns blazing' approach, as you didn't get a quick response to your first email, has annoyed the seller.
Seller needs a lesson in customer service, buyer needs a lesson in how to approach situations with tact.
A warranty issue is with the retailer, which is the eBay seller in this case afaik. If there was a warranty of a year it doesn't matter that the problem was reported after 8 months. Also it doesn't matter that they may have been in store for three years.
Personally I wouldn't bother pursuing it. The seller sounds like quite a small business, possibly selling end of line or bankrupt stock.
tjagain - Member8 months lapse does make a difference Northwind. Up to 6 months its for the retailer to show its not a manufacturing fault, after 6 months its up to the buyer to prove it is a manufacturing fault.
Falling apart after such little use is an open-and-shut warranty claim, I've had chocolate bars that have lasted longer.
I hadn't seen in the OP that the boots were brand new.
[url= http://www.ebay.co.uk/gds/Warranties-Guarantees-and-Buyers-Rights-on-ebay-/10000000001918107/g.html ]Guidance from eBay on warranties here[/url]
Basically, you should ask the seller about warranty before you bid, because beyond the 30 day eBay guarantee it's the Wild West.
If the OP had been nicer to the seller then he might have had some joy, but seeing as he's blown any chance of goodwill, I think he'll just have to put this down to experience.
The lesson, I think, is that if you want full after-sales support, buy from an authorised dealer.
Basically, you should ask the seller about warranty before you bid, because beyond the 30 day eBay guarantee it's the Wild West.
Ebay and their rules are a crock of convenience bullshit.
A transaction on ebay is a legal contract between buyer and seller, and the seller is bound by that contract to write honest descriptions and to follow through with prompt shipping.
Shame that Ebay, when told about a fraudulant seller, do nothing and let dodgy sales go through. Fact.
Right, where were we? Oh yes I got this reply from Lowa & bugga me if they aren't genuine!
We have now received a response from Lowa Germany in regards to the pair of boots you brought on ebay. We can confirm they are indeed a genuine pair of Lowa boots – they are a model called Zephyr from 2003. Unfortunately due to the age of the boots they are deteriorating due to a process called “Hydrolysis”. Hydrolysis is a chemical reaction that can occur in all outdoor shoes that have a cushioned PU midsole and that are seven years or older. The age-related chemical deterioration is not at all related to use and occurs even when the footwear has been optimally stored. Hydrolysis is a normal material aging process that occurs in all footwear with a cushioned PU midsole independent of the manufacturer. The process also occurs in automobile tires, ski boots or helmets and does not represent lower quality or even a quality issue in materials or workmanship.
& they were actually 'new' in 2003!
You learn something new every day. I'm going to apologise to the seller for doubting her word.
Did she make it clear to you in her original auction that they were 13 year old shoes & as such will probably be completely knackered by the natural aging of the materials in the shoe?? Surely they shouldn't be selling stuff that is 13 years old if the expected storage life of the shoe is only 7 years max.......
Sounds from the response that they're saying it's a perfectly natural thing that occurs in older footwear, but we're still gonna sell them to whichever [s]mug[/s] customer wants a good deal on shoes.
they are a model called Zephyr from 2003
I know I shouldn't but .... 😆
so its not a manufacturing fault. so that avenue under consumer law is not available. Not fit for puropse - seems pretty clear cut.
I would be going after the seller onthose grounds. I'd certainly be wanting my money back but at the end of the day is it worth the hassle? sounds like small claims would be your only option
Hydrolysis is a chemical reaction that can occur in all outdoor shoes that have a cushioned PU midsole and that are seven years or older
Uh oh.. should probably have a good look at my boots in the loft then before taking them out!
So the people on the first page including myself who correctly called the issue were correct. Age related 🙂
Shame about your boots but it feels great to be right 🙂
So the people on the first page including myself who correctly called the issue were correct.
ZOMG I want you inside me 🙄
I would be going after the seller on those grounds.
Agreed it would seem that the seller has the liability for selling stock so old that it's not fit for purpose.
If I was the OP I would send the seller the report from Lowa and ask for a refund, making it clear that, should you need to escalate to small claims court, you'll be also claiming costs.
She'll probably pay up. If not, it's Money Claim Online. There's a £25 fee I think.
The difficulty is that the OP has already antagonised the seller and this may make the seller dig their heels in rather than settle with minimum of hassle.
So the people on the first page including myself who correctly called the issue were correct.
ZOMG I want you inside me
Not a problem, happy to shove my foot in your ass. 🙂 smiley face so you don't get a stropon.