Forum menu
conscription would be assembling cheap drones in a factory
We aint' got no drone factories in the uk, they be imported from china, or at least the raw materieals and chips are.
And there's the little problem with the suez canal being a no go zone for trade ATM 😉
I think that the Geneva Convention forbids priests from taking up arms, so that would be my excuse. But I would encourage my children to become conscientious objectors, so no… no conscription here, thanks.
I for one welcome the chance to be a back office middle managment jobsworth *in uniform*
In my 60s now so I don't suppose that they'd want me. I'll quite happily teach people to drive lorries and buses; six drivers a week is more useful than one old bloke
We aint’ got no drone factories in the uk
No, none at all 🙂 https://www.aero-mag.com/elbit-systems-drone-swarm-08042022
the type of war exemplified by kellys heroes
Distracting attention so you can steal a whole pile of money? I think our Tory government is already fighting that war...
Anybody willing to fight for this feudal scumhole needs to have their head examined.
Theres plenty round here who’d fight someone from the next town over 11 millionaires chasing a football, so I don’t think it’d be too hard to convince a fair chunk into the idea of slaying some foreigners.
My careers advisor at school tried to push me into the military, I also remember the Marines giving out free stuff and taking over PE.
I was surprisingly good at the obstacle course, I can barely climb out of bed these days.
Being as I’m still on the tools and trained in Electrical/Mechanical engineering, I’m sure there’s some things I could hit with hammers in the incredibly unlikely event I was required to wear green and be shouted at.
A no for me. On the list of countries I would fight for the UK wouldn't even be in the top ten.
Wow Britain achieved a massive empire with no massive armed forces.
Whatever happens, we have got.
The Maxim gun, and they do not.
Not a student of history, then? As R_M points out, our guard dog is quite small, and hasn't got very big teeth.
You can even have unjust things in a just war. WW2. I think most would say the allied invasion of Normandy was just. But the bombing of Dresden?
I could, at a push, make a pretty convincing case for bombing Dresden (it being Nazi Germany, after all). Some villages in Normandy and especially in Italy were raised to the ground in the name of Liberation, and are unoccupied to this day. We (the Allies) made a pretty good mess of countries that were "on our side" in Europe.
but whatever, I think if nothing else, threads like reveal the lack of folks reading their history.
vlad_the_invaderFull Member
We’re all (?) assuming that Russia would be the invading force but what happens if a “better” country actually invaded?If France invaded the UK, would everyone get European citizenship back?
If the EU invaded I’d probably sign up with them.
Nobody is going to invade this country.Who would be that stupid?
You say that, but Vlad might think that an already corrupt, rudderless semi fascist outpost on the Northwest of Europe might be quite an attractive idea to occupy and annoy the neighbours. After it, its occupants are too polite to kick off a nuclear war, have a small army with old failing kit, and is already funded / infiltrated by Russia.
Nobody is going to invade this country.
True, it's not going to be a person, it will be A.I. launching waves of drone attacks to wipe out mankind, not sure my knees will handle stepping up to be a real life John Conner.
Doesn't take much training to dig defences or stand on guard at a depo a long way from the front and doing so frees up the better trained units for front line work.
That would be the logic, whether or not it actually works like that in practise is another matter.
Nobody is going to invade this country.
Look at Sweden, and lesser extent Finland. For years now, their stance has been we're neutral (to a given value) but also armed to the teeth. Invasion would be so costly that no-one would look at it as a prospect and say "Yeah, let's go for it" Putin's invasion of Ukraine has radically changed the way they think about their defence to the point that they're willing to forgo their neutrality for mutual support and throw away decades of foundational defence policy. They think that actually, invasion is a reality that they should probably have some plans for...
I think the point that the CGS is making is that if the UK was geographically where Ukraine is, and we had the same defence policy we have now, we run out of bullets on about day 6 after invasion, and is that a safe stance to take in a world that's becoming increasingly unstable? Given that we couldn't manage Covid, should we in fact learn the lesson?
@Kryton57 point that established powers have always in history eventually gone to war with the next emerging power should at the very least suggest that we should probably look again at the policy that's dominated for the last 10-15 years of globalisation and 'peace dividend' that our current crop of politicians have grown up in, and instead, revert back to "Hope for the best, prepare for the worst"
The main question we should be asking is are our tanks carbon neutral yet
I'm 50 and living in another country. Despite prior service, if they want to try and call me back, they will have a hard time.
I think it unlikely that the UK will be invading anywhere in the strengths where it needs 250,000 troops and any action that requires conscription is going to be a long haul. People don't just magically become useful troops overnight and are not going to be doing anything technical within the first six months or a year. Giving some sort of benefit to doing training that will help the population (emergency medical, rescue/recovery, etc) would be a lot more beneficial and could free up the Army from being the service of choice to replace the fire brigade, ambulances or Police every time they need more people.
If Sanders is talking about the Army being undermanned, he's right. Poor pay, continuous ops and (IMHO) a feeling of always getting the shit part of the stick has knocked retention and Capita have mightily fsxked recruitment. The navy have the nukes and the carriers and the RAF have new planes. The army have new boots and an A3 version of the L85.
does anyone know in which other countries it seems to work well?
I lived in Egypt for a few years back in the 90s, and there were a couple of arguments in favour of conscription/national service: it gave the rural population more opportunities, and it guaranteed literacy amongst the male population. But neither of those advantages seem particularly applicable to any European country.
I happily served in Kosovo then my old mob fired the first shots of the Iraq War, i was a younger man with a younger mans head on my shoulders then
A large issue at the moment is the "drain" of experience, as our forces decrease in size and many of the most experienced officers and NCO's leave, there is a lack of experience there to be able to train and bring new people forwards if there was the need for rapid expansion, same is happening in the NHS, there is no replacing good experience, and that only comes with time served.
I miss it, and I now work in insurance, so **** me i could do with the excitement, but i'm not sure they'd want my 48 year old diabetic body held together with metal pins and string back to be honest... although I would be the first to volunteer for a training role if i thought it was just.
Would the people calling for war be fighting alongside me?
No so no.
Interesting question. I've been wondering at the pitiful size of our armed forces, and wondering if there is a policy shift towards what is basically rearmament, given the equipment and spending on Ukraine - strategic stockpiles must be very low, and that worries me. I think as a nation we're fairly isolated from the prevailing feelings in countries in Eastern EU who are rightly rattled and pursuing new defence priorities. I see a benefit in some form of basic training and service. I spent some time in Finland about 15 years ago, and totally understand their pivot to NATO, and how they are actually in a good position regarding defence readiness and military size in comparison to population. That also includes actually having a civil defence infrastructure - imagine that!
Despite this country being a basket case, and despite my being 43 with no useful background, i'd do a duty if asked. I'd expect it to be in the dad's army, but I guess that's the point, to free up fighting personnel for where it's needed, and not having fully trained 21 year old guarding a fence in the English countryside.
We appear to have established that most of us are only suitable for "Dads Army" but which of the characters on here are best placed to be which character from the programme?
I'm claiming Private Godfrey<br />"a retired shop assistant who had worked at the Army & Navy Store in London. He lives in Walmington with his elderly sisters and serves as the platoon's medical orderly. He has a weak bladder and often needs to "be excused". A conscientious objector during the First World War,"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dad%27s_Army#Characters
Arnold Ridley's story is heartbreaking. Playwright and actor taken advantage of by people in the industry. Never got his dues. Was financially on his knees when Dad's Army came along and kept him afloat. The rest of the cast knew he was performing in a role that didn't make any real use of his skills... his performances were spot on though. And then there's his experiences in both wars... let's hope few to none of us go through what he and so many others did... twice.
Exam question time ..
in 2 years time the uk is run by a unfathomably despicable leader, playing to the populist right to cement their grip on power. Media is controlled by a few with vested interests. Corruption is rife, with politicians lining their own pockets at the expense of the masses. Civil liberties have been eroded. Living standards have dropped and many of the population live in fear or oppression and starvation. What has occurred?
Answer A - Putin has succeeded in taking over the UK
Answer B - the Tory government won a successful 2024 election under the leadership of Suella braverman
I suspect Binners may be ARP Warden Hodges
the platoon's major rival and nemesis. He calls Mainwaring "Napoleon". Mainwaring looks down on him as the local greengrocer and dislikes that Hodges saw active service in the First World War. As an Air Raid Precautions (ARP) warden, he is always demanding that people "Put that light out!". He often calls the platoon "Ruddy hooligans!"
🙂
Absolutely and categorically no, but I’d join a revolution.
Exam question time
Interesting tpbiker, there’s probably a C, D and E as well. See my answer above.
Would the people calling for war be fighting alongside me?
No so no.
You that fasten that trigger, for other to fire.
Who sit back and watch as the death count gets higher
Exam question time ..
in 2 years time the uk is run by a unfathomably despicable leader, playing to the populist right to cement their grip on power. Media is controlled by a few with vested interests. Corruption is rife, with politicians lining their own pockets at the expense of the masses. Civil liberties have been eroded. Living standards have dropped and many of the population live in fear or oppression and starvation. What has occurred?
Answer A – Putin has succeeded in taking over the UK
Answer B – the Tory government won a successful 2024 election under the leadership of Suella braverman
Or; Answer C - Labour have got in and nothing has fundamentally changed.
This thread has got me thinking about my wife's nephew, who is currently somewhere in Gaza, supporting front line troops as a reservist. So essentially being complicit in genocide. But it's easy to look at it from our cosy distant perspective. He and all other young Jewish people in Israel have had militarism drummed into them from birth. So he won't ever see it as genocide, but as his duty to help protect his nation and people, including his own family. Likewise, many young Russian conscripts will be thinking the same. Propaganda is a very powerful tool; see Nazi Germany. The difference here is that liberalism has created a situation where most of us have a much broader and more objective perspective on things.
This idiot army person who's made this absurd suggestion is a prime example of why such people should never be allowed anywhere near any such position of power. General Sanders would serve society far better working in a fast food outlet. Have him fighting Salmonella rather than human beings.
Russia have been fighting a poorly armed opponent for a year and managed to occupy a small sliver of that country. I don't see them showing up on the beaches of Dover any time soon, so my services are unlikely to be called upon. Luckily for all. But if and when it does happen, if someone thinks I'm going to be risking my life so that Rishi Sunak can keep his jewel-encrusted sliders, they can think again.
I think conscription is suggested because we might be at war in the future, nobody expects that to take the form of an invasion of the UK - who would want to? But yes, as part of a NATO alliance somewhere in Europe or hopefully not middle east. Europe has some centuries of historical president as the location for defending our sense of sovereignty.
This thread reminds me I should have joined the foreign legion in my youth, then I could ignore Brexit & go and live in France.
The trouble is, it is not a question of numbers, clearly Russia has the numbers, as it did in WW2, but those numbers are no good if they lack motivation, training and decent kit.
As i said above, we can recruit another 20,000 squaddies, but having watched many experienced officers and NCO's walk away, how are they going to be trained to a decent level?
In the same way, the NHS needs staff now, but even they recruit 100 doctors today, those doctors are not going to be on the "front line" well trained and qualified for another 7-10 years.
Our armed forces, as have most countries, have always grown at times of perceived and actual threat, and reduced in "peacetime", but you have to keep a well trained, well armed and knowledgeable core, and that is diminishing.
This thread reminds me I should have joined the foreign legion in my youth,
It's a great way to learn how to speak French.
"I'm sorry, I didn't understand what you just said" doesn't quite get the response that some might hope for.
As i said above, we can recruit another 20,000 squaddies, but having watched many experienced officers and NCO’s walk away, how are they going to be trained to a decent level?
When I walked out the door of my sub-unit for the final time, I was the last remaining NCO with operational experience.
When I walked out the door of my sub-unit for the final time, I was the last remaining NCO with operational experience.
Perfect example, my old mob was 7 Para RHA, whole point of forming 16 Air Assault was for a highly mobile brigade, partly due to the slow response to get troops on the ground in conflicts such as the Falklands, yet currently they are having to do a lot of training in the US as we don't have facilities, Hercules have been scrapped and currently the Airbus A400 is not up to the job, and I can count on one hand the number of NCO's that have op. experience.
For discussion purposes assume I'm of fighting age (very much not).The whole point of conscription is that your conscripted. When push comes to shove unless your have an exemption you serve or go to prison. Just with that choice I doubt I'd choose prison. Realistically in this day and age regardless of government conscription would only happen if there was a credible threat to the UK itself. Then you wouldn't be fighting for "government interests" but your family, friends, community,your way of life and your home. As a young man it would have been a no brainer for me.
Sent straight to the frontline, call ups should be first and foremost for the following in this order:
- All Tory party members.
- Tory voters past and present. They deserve far worse, but I'm feeling generous today.
- The Royal Family.
- The Royal Family flag wavers.
- Just stop oil protestors.
- Ant & Dec.
- Mark Drakeford.
- Philip Schofield.
- People who still wear masks.
- Any young person spotted standing in a public place with their hands down the front of their trackies.
- Men who wear shorts in winter trying to look hard. You don't.
- Men who wear skin tight jeans/trousers.
- Women who have had their 'lips done' Leslie Ash style.
- Jonathan Ross.
- Roadies. **** em. No one likes them anyway.
- Tony Blair.
- Cliff Richard.
- Aerosmith.
- The writers and cast of Mrs Browns Boys.
- The people who watch Mrs Browns Boys and tell people its funny.
- Richard Madeley.
- Piers Morgan.
I could go on all day but I've things to do.
Since the events of Ukraine, my fears of invasion by the Ruskies have dramatically dropped, not increased.
Probably. Not sure I’d make a good soldier though due to a tendency to question decisions I don’t agree with.
Just with that choice I doubt I’d choose prison.
I would. Killing a stranger for no other reason than our leaders telling us they're the enemy is something of a red line. I would only kill someone if they were in front of me threatening myself or my family/friends and it was us or them. Seems to me the best way of avoiding this scenario is not going to war.