[Closed] Work culture: Canada v Australia

I’ve been in oz for nearly eight years. Wife moved out here and miniZ turned up since.

Frankly doubt well we’ll be moving back to the UK any time soon. Generally a much better work/life balance here, pay usually better too. I’ve been back to the UK for a few visits since we moved, including five months for work back in 2016, so feel I have a reasonable grasp of both sides of the fence.

However, it can be expensive, and houses can be eyewateringly so, even by London standards. Taxes lower and no NI.

Just be aware it really is a foreign country. Different people, mostly different ways. Don’t be fooled that they allegedly speak English - England with sunshine it is not.

Moved to Oz in 2009. Came back in 2011. Went back to Oz later in 2011....

It's home. Never say never...... But we're never going back.

Defo agree with Zokes, it's not UK with sun. It's way different. Some things are more expensive. Few things are cheaper. However, rocking up to the beach and watching the sun set over the Indian Ocean (Western Australia) and cooking up a sausage sizzle or mushroom burger doesn't cost much. The sea is BLUE and even winter ain't that bad.

For some reason, poms (from what I see) tend to do well work wise. It's very laid back, mostly.

I like it.

I can only speak for Canada, where I have experience of, albeit over 10 years ago now so may not be as relevant today. However, IME, the east around Ontario shared more of the Northern European Protestant work ethic, whereas the western provinces, BC and Alberta, where I spent most of my time there, had a work to live approach.

Great country, good people and like zokes and aphex comment, not the UK.

I worked in Australia for a couple of years. In my experience (in my industry), the work culture is much more 9-5 than in the UK. People will do their hours (and work hard) but they will knock off as soon as their time's up. And weekends are theirs. There isn't the culture of overworking or presenteeism or being on call at any time that you get in the US and UK. Which is probably healthy (though somewhat frustrating) but may explain why poms with the Protestant work ethic can do well. Life is much more laid-back. Salaries are higher but so are living costs (significantly). Overall, I thought the quality of life was far higher than the UK. Kids seem to thrive (I know a few expats with families), as you'd expect in schools where there are surfing lessons.

I lived on Australia for over 30 years. I would never have moved back to the UK if it wasn't necessary for family reasons (FIL with dementia).

Australians work hard, but their time off is their time off. They tend to take a competitive approach to life and work.

If you are physically active, it's the best place in the world.

Expect it to feel very different from the UK although we share the same language.

However city life can be the same rat-race as anywhere else. I don't understand why people want to live in cities though. 🙂

Western Australia for the last nine years here and agree with much of the above, one thing that I found I needed to adjust to was that everyone seems to start work much earlier, I’m pretty sure it’s a heat/daylight thing.

i moved down working for the same company, in Aberdeen our morning meetings were 8.45, in Perth the were 7.00. These days I’m in more of an office role but still in by 7 most days, and the office is pretty much full before 8. You see it on the weekends too, lots of people up and about before 7.

Not a bad thing, just different.

When I was in Oz  the workshop had a beer fridge and a dartboard , so pretty laid back.

A friend who works for Telstra visited recently and he looked like shit. He has the house near the beach , great weather and no time whatsoever to enjoy it.

Agree with the above, Oz does have work life balance sorted in a lot of ways except for FIFO. Knock off beers and better employment protection along with the magic long service leave and mandatory (minimum) 9+% employer pension contributions

If I had a proper job there I'd probably have stayed.

For house prices think outside of Melbourne or Sydney. If you can work remotely I know a great shared office in Hobart looking for members.

I am a Canadian expat who has lived in the UK for the last 15 years. There can be no doubt that the work culture is very, very different between the two countries. Indeed, I think slackalice nails it. Southeastern Ontario (from Toronto to Hamilton) is a bit Protestant Work Ethic, but the rest of the country is more laid back.

If I were you, OP, I would take a serious look at Nova Scotia or - if you speak French - Quebec.

Nova Scotia in particular is a stunning place with some fantastic people. You might think of it as Canada's Northumberland, but with forests, cliffs, rivers, lakes, on top of the spectacular coast.

Moved to Canada just over a year ago (Calgary).

Knew nothing about it other than Cool Runnings was set here.

Currently have no plans to return to the UK if possible and about to apply for permenant residency. Holidays are less here but work is a lot more relaxed, but that could just be my job. Rockies are an hour away and everything is geared towards getting ppl outdoors.

Definitely a different country though, thankfully Canadians are better with sarcasm than Americans which was an inital worry.

As an Aussie living in Surrey and having also lived  in Canada I can add a little input.

As you ask specifically about work culture then I would say working 9-5 in a city is pretty much the same. Depends more on the company itself. However both Oz and Canada have more opportunities to find more lifestyle agreeable jobs.

Outside of work, well it could be as simple as do you prefer beaches or mountains. Or go to NZ and get both 😀

Canadian expat living here in the UK for the last 12 years. God can't believe it's that long.

Can speak for Vancouver -  Work life balance is great corporations actually walk the talk when it comes working with employees to strike that balance. Money goes a lot further, standard living is much better.

You start earlier/finish earlier, at least we did and most of the friends I know.

Also dropping a C bomb on oz isn't a sacking offence,it can be a compliment, that was the tough adjustment coming back

Plenty of GCs out there

As an ex-pat Brit, I have lived and worked (in the IT industry) in Vancouver for 11 years now.

I REALLY think all the above comments should be taken with a pinch of salt as the work culture will vary from industry to industry and from employer to employer. I'm sure there are some great industries to work in, and some great employers as well but equally shit employers (or even individual managers) can exist anywhere.

All I can say, is that there is less legal protection in Canada (or at least BC) than there is (was?) in the UK, though that may also depend on whether you're working in a unionized environment.

As regards relative costs, when I emigrated my starting salary was very similar to my UK salary but housing costs where an awful lot higher (but then again, I'd moved from a cheap part of the UK to one of the worlds most desirable cities...so not entirely surprising). On the up side, taxes are (a little) lower.

Of course, if you're just out of uni and want to spend a couple of seasons as a lifty/ski-bum in Whistler, then yes the work/life balance is great, but maybe not so great if you have to hold down two or three jobs to support a family and pay extortionate rent in a crappy basement suite (which probably exactly the same for some people in London or Sydney).

OP: maybe provide a bit more back-ground/context of what type of work you would be looking for and whether at junior or senior level, and whether you're interested in big cities versus rural backwaters...

Personally, my work/life balance is great (and I live at the bottom of the infamous North Shore mountains so the mountain biking is world class!) and have no plans to return to the UK

Some really interesting comments here, thanks all. I’ve tried not to get drawn into the lifestyle side of things because our hobbies are for the most part, outdoors. Having been to Australia (and NZ) and Canada, I know that there’ll be enough adventures to keep us busy.

In terms of context, I’m a Landscape Architect (design and planning of proposals for planning applications), which means opportunities either with a local authority dealing with town planning/policy or, work for a private environmental consultancy. Would be at a senior level, working anywhere, probably living in a small town to have access to decent amenities.

Also dropping a C bomb on oz isn’t a sacking offence,it can be a compliment, that was the tough adjustment coming back

It’s just a way of saying hello in Caernarfon!

Perhaps it’s an Adelaide thing, but my Scottish colleague and I are by far the two sweariest people in our place.

But as as others have said OP, we’ll need more information to be of any further help at this stage. There will be exceptions to just about every experience presented in this thread.

In Canada but on phone but marking for more input. One thing based on architecture is check which has easier equivalence for qualifications.  I'm a geologist and sweamrs is an accountant / auditor and there was still quite a lot of paperwork / exams before our UK qualifications were recognized.

Thanks sweaman2. I’m Chartered but will need to do another Chartership exam to get the equivalent qualification for whichever country I move to. That’s understandable and useful as it’ll focus my mind on learning the technicalities of the host industry.

@zokes et al: see my post earlier.

@doordonot: in that case, I’ll give my mate a shout and see if he’s happy to pay it forward from the advice I gave him when he was in your position (also via stw). Whilst I can give general advice, he’s in building control / planning so would be very well placed. PM me your email and I’ll see if he will oblige.

Thanks @zokes, ygm.

Would be interested to hear from anyone who has worked in western Canada. And also, did people move to the UK because it has a better work culture than Canada or Australia?

In terms of context, I’m a Landscape Architect (design and planning of proposals for planning applications), which means opportunities either with a local authority dealing with town planning/policy or, work for a private environmental consultancy. Would be at a senior level, working anywhere, probably living in a small town to have access to decent amenities.

A mate does something similar for Hobart city council, commute by bike loads of stuff on the door step and affordabke, i think they all get every 2nd or 3rd friday off as part of some historic pay settlement

“C bomb”

calling someone a GC in Scotland is quite the compliment.

i have a few friends in Ontario, and have met quite a number of ex scots whilst out visiting, I’ve asked all of them the same question “would you even consider moving back to the UK?”

every single one has said “no way”

agree with comments above, neither of these countries are uk with sun, but i have good friends ive known a long time in both of them, they have no reason to butter it up for my benefit, none of them have any intention of moving back to the uk.

Except for the one guy i know who did come back, after ten years in oz. i asked him why, and he said he couldn’t stand the average oz male attitude to women, after having to speak to a couple of workmates about comments they had made about his wife, he decided it would be safer (for them) if he moved back to the uk.

Personally, id have made a mental note that they were bellends and moved on with my life, but we’re not all the same eh.

Yup, there are dickheads everywhere, sadly. Avoid where you must, challenge when you can, and just get on with your life.

I think the events of the past two years should have shattered any illusion that all smells of roses in the UK on attitudes of sexism and particularly racism.

If that was his interpretation of the “average” bloke’s attitude, he clearly should have widened his friendship circle. It’s an attitude I see less here than I do in the UK, and I frequent some pretty rough spots as well as the nicer parts of both countries.

Yep away from the bogan hangouts (v8 mate) Australia can actually be a really progressive place, you just need to pick your place like the UK

I'm three months into Nova Scotia, working for a huge programme.

I'm loving it.... But then I really enjoy working hard. The work culture is (for me) a work hard, deliver & be rewarded. Same as in the UK for me personally.

The big difference is the 'indifference' of the locals. They don't typically apply for jobs where I am, because it's "hard" and you're expected to go to work every weekday...... No joke.

A reduction in annual leave was traded by knowing that I'll be home almost every night (whereas in the UK I was away 2-3 nights a week). The weekends are my own, and our family time has improved & is better all round.

Nova Scotia is ace. I won't be going back to the UK for the foreseeable

Western Canada being Alberta or BC? I'm in Calgary (almost 10 years) but only one industry O&G. You mention local authority. Sweamrs works in the public sector and my impression is that it's a little less modern than the UK with slightly more bureaucracy. Canadian institutions love paperwork....  Having said that they get every 3rd Friday off in exchange for working slightly longer hours daily.

This probably varies but I'd say work and social are more separate than in the UK. Less after works drinks with colleagues etc. People are personable in the office but less drinks culture in general.

British here but spent last 6 ish years in Western Australia and now back on the UK again. First of all Australia is chuffing enormous and the different states are maybe more different than people expect. If you think you want to live in a small town that probably counts out WA, NT and possibly SA as well. Small really means small and probably pretty basic!

I think work culture is pretty similar, I worked FIFO mostly which is tough but pays well. Fiancee is an architect and did ok. Would say the place in London she works at now as a better work life culture than her company in Perth.  I had no issues with qualifications and no exams at all to take as a Geo. Quality of life especially if your active is amazing, and I think if you had young kids Australia would probably win hands down (if we move back that will be the reason)

No idea about Canada, the riding might be better at least! Although Oz is making leaps and bounds in that respect. Tasmania especially looks incredible.

From the UK - worked in Calgary in construction -

everyone in 'management' were entitled, racist idiots

Site guys could not interpret how their piece of the puzzle would affect anyone else so programmes were useless to them

Government seemed overly officious and happy to tell you the incorrect information

Culturally its a desert and that's what did my head in

Short hols

And then I came to London and its worse 🙂

Based on comments so far, it seems like the stw preference is leaning towards Oz.

In terms of Canada, I was referring to BC, but only because I’ve been there. Will look at Nova Scotia.

Next up, the weather ...

I was driving back from whistles last summer before heading back to Tassie and genuinely felt like I could live there... not just the fleeting holiday thought either.

Ah the weather.

Sis lives in Calgary, has a holiday home on Vancouver Island. Apart from the west coast, which is pretty much temperate rainforest until you hit the mountains - imagine west coast of Ireland - Canada has four seasons. Winter. Still Winter. Summer. And Nearly Winter.

I’ve visited three times, mountain scenery is awesome, Vancouver Island is so laid back it has its own time zone, Island Time, and Toronto is surprisingly hot in summer. Kind of like the USA but without the guns, mostly

On weather.... Perth gets damm hot hence all the early starts.

Adelaide and cold

Melbourne 4 seasons in a day but a week of 40c in the city is grim

Sydney hot with some humidity and great storms

Brissie well humid

That little island below more med or euro climate but the sun is fierce, still as a balding ginger smoking ad I had hats around I was fine, nice to get a winter too

Next up, the weather …

It is what it is. Perth and Adelaide broadly similar (as hot as you'd expect in summer, colder than you'd expect in winter). In both cases it's generally a dry heat, and surprisingly even this northerner copes well enough with all but the worst of it these days. Make sure you have A/C, and a fan in your bedroom to keep the air moving at night and you'll be OK after a while.

Melbourne is cooler generally, but can get hot, Tassie the same again, but can be properly unpleasant in winter. Sydney more mixed, but generally more humid. Brisbane is more humid again.

The main thing is wherever you end up you adapt. I remember thinking I'd die riding on a rare 25C day in North Wales, and now get out on days with a forecast of 40 here with a bit of route planning and careful timing. I have colleagues in Townsville (properly hot and humid tropics) who do big MTB rides several times a week no matter what the weather.

Ah yes the winter. Can you or do you want to ski / snowboard?  No getting away from the fact that -20C (that's the daytime "high" by the way) for a week takes some adjusting to.  But I'd argue no worse than the 40C mentioned above.

Another Brit in Australia here.

My general experience is WLB is better here. Title chasing and career maneuvering isn' as pronounced and even a middle order uk work ethic will make you look good from what I have seen.

Moved just over 2 years ago. Now live in a small beach town south of Adelaide which was named Australia' 6th best which is also in the heart of a stunningly scenic wine region with more gravel roads than you can shake a stick at. 2 min walk to the sea with no houses in front of me. Just stuck a pool out back too.

My personal work life balance is much much more in my favour and there seem to be many more opportunities available if you have the get up and go. I also co run a series of gravel events here too.

I also feel I have morre time to do stuff with the kids or certainly engage with them more.

I do have to pinch myself at times as life is just so good.

HOWEVER......

it hasn't all been and still isnt plain sailing. Settling kids, particularly a teenage boy, has had its challenges and it takes a time to start to cement real friendships. Constant doubt as to whether you have done the right thing and missing family and friends can put you on a huge emotional rollercoastr too and you can lurch from being insanley happy to tears in a very short space of time. As someone alluded to above, England with sunshine it ain't.

Will it be forever? Who knows. A lot will depend on the health of parents I guess. That said there is no chance of coming back at the moment with all the nonsense going on in the UK etc.

Win loose or draw, you will look back one day and not regret giving it a try.

With respect to Canada, you really have to understand that it is a winter country. The summers are fantastic in places like Toronto and Montreal, where the streets fill with revellers and there is a festival week in week out. But we used to get excited with the first snowfall each year, and would look forward to the activities if promised.

What some people don't realise is that it takes a love of adventure and a willingness to embrace new activities to enjoy the weather. There is nothing like the freedom of climbing over the boards of the local outdoor ice rink and skating for hours, or strapping on a snowboard and just practicing at a local hill. And cross country skiing through forests that you realise extend unbroken until they give way to tundra... it's can be mind-blowing.

But, as plumber says, above - at least out West - there really is a lack of culture. If you like theatre, ballet, the symphony, wine, dining, literature... these are not things to be found readily in a place like Calgary. Halifax, Montreal, Kingston, and Toronto on the other hand: these have a combination of sporting and cultural opportunities aplenty.

Melbourne is cooler generally, but can get hot, Tassie the same again, but can be properly unpleasant in winter.

You have been in Adelaide too long Zokes!!

for perspective Hobart is one of the driest capital cities in Oz, it's cold by coastal Oz standards so about 0 in the city with some snow on the mountain occasionally. Lots of dry crisp days which are nice in the sun. You can get up in the middle for some proper winter and snow fun which is a little more scottish (the basic level for most Aussie ski resorts - they did well at Sochi by being used to crap snow)

For some perspective I arrived back in the UK without a winter riding jacket, we got probably 9 months on generally dusty riding and skipped the days it was really hammering down and went out the next one. It was shorts on the bike all year round.

You have been in Adelaide too long Zokes!!

Undoubtedly 😀 But at the end of the day, there's a reason why lots of Tassie is green and lots of the rest of the country is not.

Anecdote does not make data unfortunately. I really think that your work-life balance and happiness at work is dictated moreso by the company and office you work in and the individuals there (but especially the management) than a particular 'culture' in a particular place.

My experience of working culture in academia was very similar to the UK. From my time in environmental consultancy, 6 colleagues moved to Australia from an office of about 40. 2 of those have since left env consultancy, citing stress, but I suspect a similar proportion will have done the same in the UK. Unfortunately the Aus consultancy industry has the same issues as the UK, being mostly large US-owned firms (who tend to see staff as commodities and really don't aim for retention) with huge pressures from both client and regulator sides, some of which is highly political.

[The average oz male attitude and sexism:] It’s an attitude I see less here than I do in the UK, and I frequent some pretty rough spots as well as the nicer parts of both countries.

It's an interesting discussion clouded so much by individual experiences. I work in academia, and my social circle in Aus was similar to here in the UK. I felt that attitudes in Aus were much more socially conservative than in the UK, on average. There were lots of greens and liberals in our group, but there is a more pervasive and subtle 'hegemonic masculinity' attitude and conservatism in the 'role' of men and women. For the more serious stuff, I am sure there are statistics on sexual harrassment somewhere you could dig out (although they can be clouded by lack of reporting). In a recent Aus-wide survey of sexual assault and harrassment in Universities, one of the reasons given by a substantial number of respondents for not reporting the harrassment was along the lines of 'it seems to be part of Australian culture'.

I also don't agree Aus has better employment protection than in the UK. The Enterprise Bargaining thing is just weird. At least in the UK you sign a contract and that stipulates your conditions. In Aus, it's re-negotiated every 4-5 years, and if the employer chooses to play hard-ball then they can effectively erode all of your rights back to the federal minimum. See Murdoch University.

Swings and roundabouts innit.

Bargaining is weird but it does tend to deliver if both sides are sensible - the pension, long service and tax deductions also make up for it, from memory going back to minimums was a very exceptional position - the UK can do that with a few tricks too.

I also don’t agree Aus has better employment protection than in the UK. The Enterprise Bargaining thing is just weird. At least in the UK you sign a contract and that stipulates your conditions. In Aus, it’s re-negotiated every 4-5 years, and if the employer chooses to play hard-ball then they can effectively erode all of your rights back to the federal minimum. See Murdoch University.

Swings and roundabouts innit.

As someone in Australia's federal civil service, and whose job conditions and salary have been under serious attack pretty much since the onion muncher entered power, I'd say the Enterprise Agreement system is a saving grace. They tried their damndest to cut our conditions and in the end gave up. No EB and they'd have just made us re-apply for our jobs with new terms.

My wife, who works for a charity, has seen her conditions and pay grow with each iteration.

So yes, swings and roundabouts, and I'm sure there are bad cases too, but it's been pretty positive from my perspective.

Choose Canada. When it looks like this, who needs Oz? 😉

We can all find vids 😉

Another Brit in Canada here - Toronto. I'm probably just repeating what's been noted above, but a few thoughts. We had a similar choice, and in the end went with Canada partly because it's closer for getting back for family things, seeing friends etc.

- quality of life really is different here from the UK. It's not so much about money, it's more the whole attitude to life and work. As in, Canadians value the former over the latter in a way that (in London particularly) is just completely alien. In summer no work gets done because everyone just disappears or stops doing any meaningful work for about 2 months. Even though people only have 4 weeks holiday per year, they duck out at about 11am on a Friday to go to the cottage for the weekend, sitting on the lake, hiking, boating etc.

- in terms of work, it's really different. At 5.01pm the office is utterly deserted; but it's more that people don't really seem to see the point of questioning why something is done a certain way, or looking for how to do something better. At a corporate level, the aversion to risk and lack of innovation is just staggering. But you adjust, mainly by thinking about work/ life balance. And up to a point you can actually get ahead by just acting like a competent, inquisitive employee.

- Being a smaller market (and an outpost, not a hub like the UK), you quickly reach as far as you can go in your chosen career if you have any ambition and smarts. Again, you adjust; and on a recent trip back to the UK I discovered that some of my mates in London are also starting to reach that point there.

- Culture, architecture, countryside here are... 'different' from the UK. After a while you long for a decent drystone wall running across a field, some historic edifices, and any design-led thinking in construction.

- Dear god, nobody can drive here (Toronto, mainly). It's just shocking that a first world country has so many drivers who think you don't need lights at nighttime, winter tyres are an unnecessary expense in a city with -20C winters and 4' of snow; and that drink driving is fine.

All that said, would I go back to the UK? Hell no! Or at least not for the foreseeable future