[Closed] Winters coming;all inclusive rugby thread.

Good thing for 1/2p he is a tank of a man. Plenty of niggle all game but then we know who won the mental battle as well as the game overall don't we. Would have been nice if AWJ(?) looked down for a second in the second clip 😀

Why is there still argument about the scrums? If Walsh had no previous history with England then I don't think there would be half the complaining from the English fans...

Really enjoyed the Phil V perspective too, thanks for the link a_a

I've still not calmed down sufficiently to stomach a_a bringing facts to the discussion.

I watched Scrum V today, Vickery was very straight and fair. Actually liked the way he came across.

Nice link there AA. Vickers very straight and jnteresting.

Tom B - Member
I've still not calmed down sufficiently to stomach a_a bringing facts to the discussion.

POSTED 6 HOURS AGO # REPORT-POST

Don't worry, it's just you struggling to adapt to change, I will distract him from this new path.....
[IMG] [/IMG]

BREAKING NEWS: South Wales Police have asked for witness’s to come forward regarding a brutal crime against 15 English men on a recent visit to Cardiff who were robbed of a Grand Slam they had come to collect and also had their chariot badly vandalised during the visit to the Welsh capital?

... Apparently this heinous crime was carried out by a gang of 15 Welsh guys dressed in bright red shirts in broad daylight in front of 75,439 people who gathered around the gang attack and just stood there cheering, clapping and singing hymns and arias as if they were encouraging the gang.

A police spokesmen for the South Wales force said this “This sort of attack is just sickening……..One of the victims was a young lad called Owen Farrell who was on his first trip to Wales and has been traumatised by the whole shocking experience and to make matters even worse his father was forced to watch the entire crime from start to finish and could not lift a finger to protect his son from the sickening and relentless battering meted out by the conspicuously dressed red shirted gang”.

The police spokesman continued, “We are following a number of leads and believe this crimson shirted gang may be linked to a similar attack in Twickenham a year ago”.

'scuse the spgs - lifted from a Welsh Facebook feed

Talk of North heading to Northampton at end of season

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/21846171

Andy Robinson has been busy at Bristol........Liam Middleton shown the door.

North isnt enough of a **** for Northampton. I seem to remember lots of talk of Jiffy Junior going last season that came to nothing. Fingers crossed.

[img] [/img]

A selection of scrumages for your viewing pleasure, if anyone would like to point out what Walsh got so wrong feel free.

"People have come out and said that Marler was shocking, but he's good," Jones told the ERC website. "I'd never played against him before and he's a better prop than I thought he was.

makes you wonder how shit he thought Marler was beforehand!!!

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_8577330,00.html

I'll stop gloating in a few weeks I promise

"I'd never played against him before and he's a better prop than I thought he was."

*Translates*

"I really stuffed him didn't I? Any chance of a nice cup of tea, bach?"

AA.

I'd like to point out that your links don't work.

Bugger I'll try again

try those. I'm on my phone so cant test them at the moment.

With Gethin and Adam coming back into form/fit again its hardly surprising what happened when a fair few teams in the last year have got on top of the england scrum at some stage over 80 minutes. Even Ireland 😉

[url= http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/england/9941194/England-unhappy-with-referee-Steve-Walshs-performance-in-defeat-by-Wales-as-they-report-official-to-IRB.html ]Official whining. [/url]

And, "Spitty, spitty...."
[img] [/img]

This looks unpleasant. Not as violent and nasty as Stampy O'Driscoll, but not nice however you cut it. Looks very much as if he trying to crush 1/2p's head in to the ground (Not illegal, but not really called for at all) and then spitting at him (Vile, beyond any acceptable interpretation of the game).

Discuss.

I'll discuss this, from the Torygraph link ^^^^

At the scrum we just want a clean outcome. We don’t practise anything different. I’ll be speaking to the IRB to get clarification. We were frustrated.”

That much was clear from the pained demeanour of England captain Chris Robshaw at the time. He sought guidance from Walsh but got little purchase from such enquiries. Wales flanker Sam Warburton, even though he was not captain and so had no right to converse with a referee, had a lengthy discussion at one point with Walsh about interpretations at the breakdown. Sources suggest that Wales collapsed half a dozen scrums but got away with it, Walsh penalising England for going to ground.

If true, he has a point.

What were the sources who said Wales were collapsing? Walsh and both TJ,s were in theory, watching each scrum. Also, I would tell an errant forward what constitutes my reffing of the breakdown. Robshaw getting "little purchase" sorry, that just means he has complained and not got what he wants.

As an aside, has anybody ever seen Fatima Whitbread and Adam Jones together?

Now we get to the crux of why folk can stand England. Complaining about Walsh when he had a perfectly good game, compared to Joubert last week it was the best reff'd match in history.

They were hammered by a much better team, despite their cheating and spitting at the welsh they still couldn't win.

Do you think the irb be will clarify the situation by telling them to push harder? Will they ask for clarification on what constitutes offside following Tuilagis try v france?
Intresting point re Warburtons chat to Walsh he was very polite gave a little thumbs up and trotted off. England were much more moany and clearly openly disagreed. Maybe thats a sign of experience.

s Rowntree indicated, he has always coached his scrum to push straight and to stay level. It will be interesting for him as Lions forwards coach with the Wales front-row all favoured to be in the tour party.

maybe Rowntree shouldnt coach the Lions if he cannot stand the dirty cheating welsh front row!!

I'm happy to concede that England were thrashed by a much better team. I even enjoyed watching it - not from a sadistic self-harming PoV, more an exhibition of how to ruthlessly put another team to the sword.

In my eyes, the only 'turning point' was Tualangi ineffectually using his face, rather than his hands to catch a pass that would have left him under the posts eraly in the game, with support on the wing. Beyond that, in my eyes the ref didn't help, but certainly wasn't the reason we lost.

As you say, we've benefited from iffy decisions / missed forward passes before now. I'm happy enough to concede that on this occasion the dice controlling the ref came up snake eyes for England, and maybe that's just the luck of the draw. I still think Walsh is a poor ref, with a very poor record when officiating against England. Whether that's just my one-eyedness, chance that England always perform badly when Walsh refs us, or whether Walsh actually does have a bias against England I can't say. I suspect it's all three to one extent or another.

you may see it as whineing, but surely as coaches they need clarification so that they can develop both themselves and players. They obviously can't understand why they were penalised so much.
If as a coach your team were continually penealised that you couldn't understand then wouldn't you seek clarification?

I don't disagree that Wales were the better side and deserved the win (how frustrating must it be knowing your team can play like that but don't do it often enough, maybe they should ask all the oppo to play in a white shirt!!!!)

Wales didn't do that to any other team at scrum time, and nor did anyone else do it to England, suggesting that they are not as bad scrummagers as appeared in the Wales game, nor are Wales as good as they were in the England game?

It is unusual to see such a one sided contest at scrums in international rugby.

AA you may be right, but Robshaw doesn't appear to be a moany Englishman. And please don't let North go to Northampton, he'll never get the ball, send him to Quins so that I can enjoy his skills on the Sunday night highlights each week please.

Zokes put it better than me!

Bleat whinge moan bleat whinge stamping of feet 🙄

stevewhyte is on the money, this is why england rugby are so reviled by all the other nations, just take your lumps and stop crying about it.

Thought Roundtree and Lancaster had more about them that this.

Atually it is not that unusual, when england took apart Ireland last year or the times Australia were wrecked by Sheridan all we heard was purring about the strength and technique of england props. Get over yourselves.

Walsh was complained about during his last super rugby game a few weeks back too.

Is that Croft spitting on 1/2p? Not too fussed about him shoving his head, but spitting on him is one of the most disgusting things that I've seen. 6 month ban minimum I'd hope.....I'm guessing that it went unseen and hasn't been sighted?

Oh and forgot to say that spitting should be cited, no place for that on any pitch, least of all an international one.

Pigface - till you can see the other side of an argument you will continue to have a one eyed view.

😆 oh the ironing 😆

Atually it is not that unusual, when england took apart Ireland last year or the times Australia were wrecked by Sheridan all we heard was purring about the strength and technique of england props. Get over yourselves.

Take a look back through this thread. I suspect you'll find a lot of purring over how brilliant the Welsh scrum is. Rightly so, and just as rightly so as the occasions you mention re: England. It is you, perhaps, that needs to get over yourself, mr piggy.

EDIT: I should add that there were plenty of groans from England supporters prior to the game about Walsh. If nothing else, that demonstrates a perceived previous history. England do seem to have lost a rather disproportionate number of games with him officiating - there reaches a point where that stops being related solely to the team's performance on the day.

😆 I dont remember the Irish wanting clarification or the Australians, I am over myself all over myself in an orgy of self love, come and join me, open invitation herr zokes don't be shy 😆

Plenty of Wales fans complained about Warburton's red card at the last World Cup. It's just England's turn now. Hopefully, it won't go on too much longer. 😆

Hilarious. welshies moaning about the English moaning. Not like you've never moaned before is it.

None of your colonial superiors are moaning about losing to a far better team. If Walsh had been on the money fair, we would still have lost IMO. All that's beings discussed is correct; he overruled England in the scrum (for which he has history) without explanation and helped them on to the proverbial back foot with indecision even before Wales got stuck in. . Fwiw I remember that lengthy discussion with Warburton - is was about the breakdown I believe - and I remember Robshaw being told to step back on more than be occasion.

So Walsh assist Wales but ignores England with regard to the rules being played on the day - regardless of the two sides involved that needs to be sorted.

We have got to have something to moan about 😆 we are Welsh

we moan about you and you moan that you were hard done by by that nasty Mr Walsh. Oh it's just not fair wah wah wah 😆

At least I haven't gloated 😉

Never mind, Wales can watch us from the stands during the World Cup seeing as they've peaked 2 years too early.

Never mind, Wales can watch us from the stands during the World Cup seeing as they've peaked 2 years too early.

*Chortles* 😆

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rugby_World_Cup#Team_records ]There are two columns in this table that I can't see Wales in. I wonder why, given their awsumz...[/url]

I am over myself all over myself in an orgy of self love, come and join me,

What time and where?

Weak very weak 😆 who would of thought unhappy englanders would roll out the WC gambit, as Sheryl Crow sang "If it make you happy" 😉

Pigface - Member
Weak very weak who would of thought unhappy englanders would roll out the WC gambit, as Sheryl Crow sang "If it make you happy"

Who's unhappy? I just saw the weekend as the welsh helping us along with our RWC2015 development plan. Thanks for exposing our weaknesses, we'll be sure to fix it all so that we add another number to the tables that Zokes refers to.

In fact, you've been so helpful I'm decided to come Afan in a couple of weeks to add some cash to your local economy to ensure your professional rugby assistance to us may continue.

Weak very weak

I agree, on balance, it appears Wales' success at rugby outside the Northern Hemisphere is quite weak 😆

British cycling work on the basis of 4 year development cycles for olympic success yet it doesn't stop them from getting a shed load of wc gold medals 😉

My feeling with the Walsh issue is england were not mentally prepared to deal with it properly- the welsh were calm and respectful while the english had the grace of Parisse with the ref 🙂

I still maintain englands most disappointing aspect of the match was their poor response to pressure which only made wales job easier... Even lancaster has commented as much

Agree with DanW.

Thanks for exposing our weaknesses, we'll be sure to fix it all so that we add another number to the tables that Zokes refers to.

Planning on growing a new front row by then are you?

None of your colonial superiors are moaning about losing to a far better team. If Walsh had been on the money fair, we would still have lost IMO

You are moaning, as are your coaches and media. In fact increasingly they are easing into the subtle suggestion that you lost because of Walsh, it is in the Telegraph and todays Times continues in a similar vein. So by suggesting Walsh wasn't "on the money fair,"are you suggesting he had an agenda of penalising the England team on purpose? In other words he cheated? The Welsh scrum took us apart the week before, even with God's prop, England didn't.

Here is a point, having been miked into the ref at a rabo game,you have no idea how much they talk to top level players,and not just the skipper. If Robshaw is constantly in his ear about one thing over and over, if the ref doesn't see it as a problem he will tell him and then wave him away. Likewise it is easier to say to a player,"watch your offside,you were borderline last breakdown." than call across the captain to relay it. All refs do it at all levels and rightly so. Maybe we should go back to decisions with no explaination at all?

Planning on growing a new front row by then are you?

No, just ironing out the weaknesses in the existing one.

What's your plan to add to that table?

[img] [/img]

Planning on growing a new front row by then are you?

Don't forget some wingers... 😀

What's your plan to add to that table?

Aw petal,still a wee bit sore?

Well Zokes, continuing to expect my team to perform according to their abilities and resources and if it improves my countries standings,great.It's called realism,and after all is only a game. However unlike you,I don't view sporting success as my birthright, it would seem the English often,and in quite a nasty way,view sport as a way of vidicating an outdated nationalistic sense of superiority.And I include Twickenham crowds in this from experience. And when you fall short there has to be reasons outwith your own control such as a ref.

So bearing in mind that Lancaster was saying that Saturday was a prep for the big games in 2015, whats your plan?

However unlike you,I don't view sporting success as my birthright,

The football club I support is Bolton Wanderers, I supported English cricket long before 2005, 1966 was 17 years before I was born. I'm puzzled as to how I view sporting success as my birthright. You appear (not for the first time, certainly not for the last) to be grossly mistaken.

Having lived in Bangor for ten years though, and having a Welsh wife, I can safely say that when it comes to Rugby, a lot of the Welsh do view success as a birthright. Beating the English doubly so. I suggest you find the last rugby thread and look at posts from around the time this happened:

[img] [/img]

It might jog your memory.

So bearing in mind that Lancaster was saying that Saturday was a prep for the big games in 2015, whats your plan?

My plan is to watch the game. I suspect Lancaster is the one you need to consult on English rugby's training techniques.

Wales didn't do that to any other team at scrum time, and nor did anyone else do it to England, suggesting that they are not as bad scrummagers as appeared in the Wales game, nor are Wales as good as they were in the England game?

wales had the upperhand v ireland in the scrum and demolished italy and scotland too. They also demolished the england scrum last season.

Still on the subject of scrums...

"I don't buy this whole 'streetwise' thing," Rowntree said

I have no idea how you discount being smart, being streetwise, gamesmanship whatever you want to interpret it as in any modern professional sport.

Seems Mr. Rowntree still [url= http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/news/rugby-rowntree-clarify-refs-decisions-221428389.html ]isn't happy[/url] too

Also funny:

Lancaster will be without a number of his senior players for the four-match trip to south America in June, with the likes of Robshaw, Tom Croft and Dan Cole among those set for British and Irish Lions duty.

I quite liked how Phil V brought up the selection of coaching staff on Scrum V for the Lions tour with it very possible that certain selections were political rather than purely on ability. None of us could possibly know enough to comment but it was interesting he still brought it up.

it would seem the English often,and in quite a nasty way,view sport as a way of vidicating an outdated nationalistic sense of superiority.And I include Twickenham crowds in this from experience

Oh, come on duckman. Why would you stoop to this level?

On the front row thing..........

a) England got stuffed, but
b) they're best loose head (Corbisiero) wasn't playing
c) Marler and Vuni-wotsit are both about 22
d) Cole is 26 I think
e) Youngs is about 12
f) Wales are pretty sneaky in the scrum, but fair 'enuff, they get away with it. Didn't Hibbett say they deliberately didn't hit against Scotland, thereby making it look as though Scotland were pushing early?; and I think there was some talk of them dropping the scrum deliberately against England
g) So yeah there is a chance of Eng growing a new front row
h) bigger problem is the backs (as usual..........)

Oh, come on duckman. Why would you stoop to this level?

It's fairly self explanatory, I would have thought.

On the front row thing..........

a) England got stuffed [s]but[/s]

FTFY.

FTFY.

Suits us downtrodden English. You [s]world beating[/s] (oh, you've not? sorry...) Welsh can carry on with your superiority complex, and we'll become the Englishman's favourite sporting entity - the underdog.

Halfpenny has cleared Croft of spitting - good to see. [url= http://www1.skysports.com/rugby-union/news/12507/8578309/Wales-Leigh-Halfpenny-backs-Engladn-rival-Tom-Croft-in-spitting-row ]Link[/url]

Regarding the "source", Parling is on record as saying a welsh prop admitted to collasping scrums 5 or 6 times post match. He also said, fair enough if you can get away with it which seeems at odds to Rowntree. Read into that what you will.

Oh, come on duckman. Why would you stoop to this level?

It's fairly self explanatory, I would have thought.

Posted 6 minutes ago # Report-Post

Go on then Zokes, explain it to me....

Or did I misread, you weren't really complaining about the ref? and to suggest so would make me "grossly mistaken" (gosh, what a sense of your own importance you have,it's a thread about rugby)

whether Walsh actually does have a bias against England I can't say. I suspect it's all three to one extent or another.

EDIT: I should add that there were plenty of groans from England supporters prior to the game about Walsh. If nothing else, that demonstrates a perceived previous history. England do seem to have lost a rather disproportionate number of games with him officiating - there reaches a point where that stops being related solely to the team's performance on the day.

There are a couple of examples of you not moaning about the ref.Puts whatever that post above with Warburton was about into context....

Wales' stunning victory over England in Cardiff on Saturday taught us many things but perhaps the most important lesson was handed down by capacity Millennium Stadium crowd. A 74,000 capacity crowd generated a rare and thrilling atmosphere that helped propel the home side to glory but in doing so they ended all hope of them playing host to their 2015 Rugby World Cup pool game against England. World Cup organisers may be keen to ensure venue agreements and financial targets are set, but they are not going to jeopardise the hosts' chances by offering Wales such a significant advantage.

That's good. Our best front row for me is Corbs, Kiwi Thug and Cole. Hartley seems to have had a real drop in form this season though.

anagallis_arvensis - Member
wales had the upperhand v ireland in the scrum ....

You must still be drunk. Fair enough, rose coloured beer goggles. Enjoy it.
Moving on...

Anyway, all this [s]moaning[/s] "debate" about Walsh and scrums is irrelevant. Man for man, I don't see a single position where the English team got the upper hand on Saturday.
Even without the scrum, Wales beat England in the backs.

England had nothing to match Wales from 10 back: Biggar, North, Roberts, Davies, [b]Cuthbert , Halfpee.[/b]
That's where all the points came from.

You wouldn't drop a single one of them if you were picking a side from the two teams' displays on Saturday.

Corbs seems to have built up a reputation, based on what i'm not sure.

Some time ago I asked AA what where the chances of the awesome welsh backrow all being fit and on form by England match, but just got emailed a load of pics of Gavin in his briefs 😉 What the match illustrated to me is Wales do have proven highly skilled operators but i look at that Englad starting 15 in a very average 6 nations and just feel a bit flat. However, come the Lions i'm convinved a few English players will make huge reputations for themselves.

England are seeking clarity, the press are putting their spin on it. They are unhappy with Walsh and have history with him, some raw nerves I suspect. Lancaster has admitted that England were stuffed and didn't turn up, he is not seeking to blame the ref for the loss, nor are most on here.

1/2p - an outstanding player and outstanding person too from the bits I've read about him. He keeps going up in my estimation.

Even without the scrum, Wales beat England in the backs. England had nothing to match Wales from 10 back

Can someone summarise all of this "Walsh history" with the key facts of why he hates England (genuine question)?

Go on then Zokes, explain it to me....

I would suggest that with a post as crass as that, it was you who needed to do some explaining

Or did I misread, you weren't really complaining about the ref?

You didn't misread, you selectively quoted, weakening your argument further.

Puts whatever that post above with Warburton was about into context....

If you'd actually read it, you'd see that the post was refuting your claim that I saw sporting success as a birthright. Which as brainless as it was, was about the least stupid thing you'd said in that last post.

Can someone summarise all of this "Walsh history" with the key facts of why he hates England (genuine question)?

Not just the English, it seems...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Walsh_(rugby_referee)

He was the guy at the centre of the shitstorm we England had 16 players on the pitch in 2003. He kicked up rather a fuss in the tunnel etc.

Anyway, isn't it the London Welsh appeal today? I wonder how that will go?

Zokes,You posted two threads doing the "Wales were the better team but"...including the quotes I posted above.I couldn't be bothered to post the whole ramble.Feel free to play any variation on the Edinburgh defense you wish. You are the new,but sadly much less likeable, TJ and I claim my £5.

I dunno why people talk about the world cup when discussing England now. It was a completely different team and coach...

Duckman, Zokes - I want a word please. Any more of this arguing and I'll have no choice but to bring out a yellow card. Now - scrum down.. oh wait, not a good idea...

Seems like Walsh is on the up career wise (probably couldn't go much lower) but what was specifically wrong with England?

Warning taken Molgrips.

Dan; Walsh likes it to be all about him. Warburton tugging his forlock when talking to him would go down very well. Other approaches may have been tried by other teams in a lighter strip that ruffled his feathers.
In the past
He also (rumour has it) offered an English coach outside. This is where the hatred of England is supposed to have begun. (See telling Shane Horgan to go and duck himself if he didn't like a decision for Irish conspiracy theory/ Sacking for being pished for NZ theory)
On his day, he provides a really good game as it is generally considered (among refs) that he refs competition at the breakdown better than any other elite ref.

duckman - Member
Zokes,You posted two threads doing the "Wales were the better team but"...including the quotes I posted above.I couldn't be bothered to post the whole ramble.Feel free to play any variation on the Edinburgh defense you wish. You are the new,but sadly much less likeable, TJ and I claim my £5.

You could save all this claptrap if you just read the other part of my posts, one of which is below:

zokes - Member
I'm happy to concede that England were thrashed by a much better team. I even enjoyed watching it - not from a sadistic self-harming PoV, more an exhibition of how to ruthlessly put another team to the sword.

In my eyes, the only 'turning point' was Tualangi ineffectually using his face, rather than his hands to catch a pass that would have left him under the posts eraly in the game, with support on the wing. Beyond that, in my eyes the ref didn't help, but certainly wasn't the reason we lost.

As you say, we've benefited from iffy decisions / missed forward passes before now. I'm happy enough to concede that on this occasion the dice controlling the ref came up snake eyes for England, and maybe that's just the luck of the draw. I still think Walsh is a poor ref, with a very poor record when officiating against England. Whether that's just my one-eyedness, chance that England always perform badly when Walsh refs us, or whether Walsh actually does have a bias against England I can't say. I suspect it's all three to one extent or another.

Now stop trying to pick an argument where there is none. All teams bleat when they're beaten, Wales in the last RWC being a very notable example, with plenty of the distasteful comments you're happy to tar all English with, yet are happy to hurl about yourself.

I'm still confused by this post of yours though, which as I've discussed, makes absolutely no sense, yet you seem to not want to discuss that:

Well Zokes, continuing to expect my team to perform according to their abilities and resources and if it improves my countries standings,great.It's called realism,and after all is only a game. [u]However unlike you,I don't view sporting success as my birthright, it would seem the English often,and in quite a nasty way,view sport as a way of vidicating an outdated nationalistic sense of superiority.[/u]And I include Twickenham crowds in this from experience. [u]And when you fall short there has to be reasons outwith your own control such as a ref.[/u]

The latter point being particularly salient to Warburton; hence my reference to that incident. Warburton deserved the red card, it wasn't harsh, it wasn't unlucky, it was just. You were subsequently beaten by a better French team. Didn't stop you all having a good moan about it though. Plenty Welsh (on here and elsewhere) seemed to think that Alain Rolland was a French name and therefore he must be French and shouldn't have been reffing the match.

Actually, I do now see where it came from, you're still sulking that whilst on a fairly regular basis you can beat England, but every time it matters in the big one, you end up on an early plane home. Really sad having an inferiority complex like that.

Walsh likes it to be all about him

[img] [/img]

He also (rumour has it) offered an English coach outside

Really sad having an inferiority complex like that.

I think the country as a whole has an inferiority complex - that's why our rugby team's success is so important, and it's also why it's been such a long road trying to get our team into a professional outfit that can back itself to properly fight for and win hard matches.

I do think the whole English are arrogant/expect success arhuement is a bit much in the context of this thread duckman....yes we've had a whinge (did you see what happened) though we have kept adding the caveat that Walsh's decisions didn't affect the result it seems to be ignored....Wales were better 1-15 than us.

Lets all play nicely again now please

f) Wales are pretty sneaky in the scrum, but fair 'enuff, they get away with it. Didn't Hibbett say they deliberately didn't hit against Scotland, thereby making it look as though Scotland were pushing early?; and I think there was some talk of them dropping the scrum deliberately against England

no thats not what was said at all. Wales dont cheat at the scrum (no more than anyone else) why would they they have a strong scrum.

Hmm, all this crap about the ref, I'm not sure I approve. I especially do not like the fact that england are going to complain. Aside from it being not very "stiff upper lip", but if there was an issue, surely the IRB bods would have noticed anyway?

It's not good, I would rather we accepted the loss for what it was and not allow doubt/blame of others to come in to it. We lost cos Wales were better, end of.

Sorry Molgrips; 😀

Actually, I do now see where it came from, you're still sulking that whilst on a fairly regular basis you can beat England, but every time it matters in the big one, you end up on an early plane home. Really sad having an inferiority complex like that.

Really? I have never had an inferiority complex about sporting expectations for Scotland, as I have none.Feel free to cite anything in the 100 odd pages in which I have been anything other than self-depreciating about Scotland. Also our record against England would suggest we cannot even win the little games.I just want to stop losing to Italy. Apologies to fellow users for the spat.

We lost cos Wales were better, end of.

+1

Happy now, duckface?

Stealth edit response stealth edit 8)

FWIW, I did still really enjoy the match, just a pity I wasn't watching it anywhere where there were people actually interested in rugby at all. (Other than my Welsh wife, Scottish friend, and Canadian(!) boss (oh, and STW)). Living in South Australia you really wouldn't even know the Wallabies existed, never mind the six nations!

Give us a cuddle Boakes (stealth edit completed) 8)

Oh and Zokes could you shut the **** up and take your dull and boring little opinions elswhere?