[Closed] Windproof or lightweight softshell (hillwalking)

Maybe a little more minimal than you're thinking but I've an OMM Sonic Smock that's perfect for "over a baselayer or light fleece." The only problem I have with it is misplacing it as it's properly tiny when packed. Weight is 48g.

https://theomm.com/product/sonic-smock/

With a lighter softshell (a light, stretchy woven softshell like a Mountain Hardwear Super Chockstone) I like to wear them most of the time. They're not heavy but they don't pack down tiny. They're usually good at being layered though

With a windshirt (montane lite speed) I like wearing them as they make a big difference to wind chill, but I'm more willing to switch them out for a waterproof or nothing at all depending on the conditions, as they pack down so small (i.e. fit in a waist pack)

So I tend to pick based on the conditions

Think I'm looking for something a bit more robust than that OMM. Something that is durable enough to be worn all day if necessary but still light and with a small pack size so it's different enough from what I already have.

Montane Featherlight is excellent - I live in mine on the MTB. It takes any chill out of the wind, and I wear it with a fleece under for cooler weather, and on breezier days in the summer it's fine over a T-shirt. Good breathability too.
Could see whether they have any bargains at the Montane outlet: https://mountain-kit.co.uk/

You want a Buffalo windshirt but they ain't cheap

pertex wind shirt thingy (got a mountain equipment and montane one too) are the best bits of hillwalking gear I've ever bought.

Weighed my existing sofshell - 520g.

The Montane Alpine Edge in the outlet store is tempting but wondering whether a windproof may better serve my purpose.

Lightweight and minimalist, not a softshell then.

I use a Rab Vital, but most brands have similar offering, super light but really keeps the wind off. Stuff into a pocket, great addition to your kit.

Think you're right. Was looking at windproofs but saw a Rab Borealis in a shop which seemed a lot thinner than my existing jacket.

They're basically like super light pac a Mac type things, waterproofs you had as a kid, I recall getting it delivered and thought wtf is this? Brilliant though, will take a wee shower too.

You want a Buffalo windshirt but they ain’t cheap

True, but they do last forever, their simple construction helps - come the nuclear Armageddon, all that will be left are cockroaches and Keef Richards, wearing Buffalo Windshirts…
I’ve still got my original Buffalo MTB Windshirt, with the yellow and reflective bands across the front and back and around the cuffs, but I had the dropped hem with the crotch strap removed and re-hemmed, because the buckle, being fine for mountain climbing, becomes a world of hurt on a bike saddle… 😣
I’ve got a Special Six as well, and that’s my everyday work jacket, with a thin Peter Storm nylon jacket over the top as a barrier against heavy rain, and a Smelly Helly underneath, it’s so much more comfortable for all day wear outdoors compared to the normal industrial heavy nylon hi-viz gear we get issued, I turn into a boil-in-the-bag human.

I'm not really a fan of softshells, I think a windproof that can be worn over a variety of layers is far more versatile.

Think I’m looking for something a bit more robust than that OMM. Something that is durable enough to be worn all day if necessary but still light and with a small pack size

The OMM thing will be plenty robust for hillwalking duties.

Pertex shell.

I recently bought a Mountain Equipment Frontier softshell and have been pretty impressed with it. Similar ideas to the op's post was looking for something that could go over a base layer or thin fleece for summer use.

Pertex shell + layers any day. Softshell bulky and potentially too warm. BUT assuming you're also carrying a waterproof why not just stick that on on the descents, stops, tops? When you're exerting yourself you'll be fine in a normal base / mid layers.

I have a Montane Hydrogen which is a Pertex outer and alpha pile insulation on the inside. It's brilliant and my go-to jacket on big days in the hills with my dog.
It's been drenched through in heavy rain but still feels dry and warm. Worn direct with no under layers so dumps heat quickly when vented.
I also have the Montane Extreme as pile and Pertex is the best compromise for me and far better for me than Gore/laminates

Montane Hydrogen

Mrs_oab refuses to be separated from hers. Warm, cosy, fits really well.

But it is an insulated jacket, not just windproof.

I now need a remade Krypton - the perfect 'allround' jacket. I'll take one exactly the same apart from a few more reflective bits and +4cm on rear hem.

What about a Rab VR Alpine Light? I think it is somewhere in the middle of the Rab VR range - it's got a kind of very light brushed fleece lining which wicks moisture away but also acts as a bit of an insulator.

I really like my Alpkit Morphosis smock, maybe a bit heavier than you’re after but worth a look.

Alpkit Morphosis is what I thought too, reading your requirements.

Good call on Buffalo Special 6.

Think I will get one for hiking etc.

Have a look at the Paramo windproofs too. I'm a huge fan of Montane Featherlite smock and LiteSpeed jackets (had them since they came out) but they are for spring & summer conditions. The Paramo windproofs are heavier and more heavy duty but half the weight of your softshell and much better suited for the changes in seasons when you're not sure if it will be glorious or a bit shite

Thanks all for the info and suggestions in the thread.

On the basis of what has been suggested I think I'm definitely going to go for a windproof rather than a lightweight softshell.

I may just order a couple of options and see what fits best.

The Paramo Ostro windproof looks decent but I'm a bit concerned about the fit as I'm very tall and slim and Paramo stuff can be a bit boxy.

Generally Montane and Mountain Equipment stuff fits me well whereas I've never had much success with Rab.

I think the Alpkit one will be a bit warmer than I'm after - not really looking for anything lined or insulated.

Buffalo looks good but obviously a spendy option.

Every couple of years we get something that combines all the layers into one... Buffalo did this and softshell is a more modern take.

In our (UK) climate, the flexibility of layers is a real plus on the hills. I carry a Pertex windproof, some sort of insulation (mid weight fleece, Primaloft etc) and a hardshell (Gore-Tex or Event). I do have a Buffalo and a selection of softshell but I still come back to separating the layers for flexibility.

The old issue is steaming up hill, freezing whilst stopped then steaming off again so either too hot or too cold. The Buffalo evangelists had us wearing them next to the skin to try and avoid overheating. Dint work for me. Great for sitting on a winter belay/standing in a field. Rubbish during high output activity.

I'm using Montane flavoured Pertex windproofs ATM. They all UV degrade and fall to bits after a few years then I buy some more.

☝🏻☝🏻☝🏻

100% what Boblo says.

I’m using Montane flavoured Pertex windproofs ATM. They all UV degrade and fall to bits after a few years then I buy some more.

What are you doing in them? Krypton Factor assault course?

I've never had one fall apart. I've ripped one on barbed wire, I've had one chewed inside a holdall at Changi airport by the luggage belts but they are pretty robust. The early Quantum was less ripstop than newer stuff but the standard Microlight is tough enough for general outdoors activity

I guess when he said about degrading in UV, that's what he meant?.

Fwiw the difference between double-weave softshells and windshells in terms of performance beyond the stuff about weight, pack size and sometimes stretch, is breathability or moisture vapour transfer. Anything that's 100% windproof even without a membrane - eg: classic Pertex - is also relatively sweaty because to exclude wind it has to be very, very tightly woven.

If you don't run hot or prioritise wind protection over breathability / comfort, a windshell or a 100% windproof 'softshell' fabric like Gore Windstopper is an option. The advantage of double-weave softshells like the Rab Borealis is that they breathe better at the expense of some wind protection, but also wick moisture outwards because of the structure of the fabric which has a different weave on the inside compared to the exterior, hence double weave.

You also tend to find that soft shells are more featured with hoods, pockets, adjusters than most lightweight windshells which tend to be more minimalist. Personally I use both according to conditions, activity and terrain, but probably use a softshell more often because it copes with most stuff and when it doesn't, I'm usually carrying a very light waterproof and don't really see the point of carrying both a windshell and a waterproof. YMMV etc.

Mountain Equipment Ultrafleece from the 80s and 90s.

Truly a thing of wonder. A bit warm for summer though

I've had a Rab borealis for years and it is just a fantastic piece of kit for being out and about the hills in Scotland. Mines the first version and the new one has been tweaked so is even better.

I also love my 7mesh Northwoods windproof jacket and use it a lot on the bike. Road, gravel and mountain bike. I got it pretty cheap about 5 years ago but would still think hard about paying full price for another as it is just perfect for weather and temperature we have in the central belt of Scotland.

I'd go as far as to say that a lightweight windproof is almost an essential piece of clothing for being in the outdoors in Scotland.

Agree re breathability, The super light Rab is a sweaty affair if you're working hard, I'll unzip it on the way up and working hard, comes into it's own on summit ridges, when the HR goes down a bit.

I guess when he said about degrading in UV, that’s what he meant

Yeah UV makes them prone to splitting. The elastics goes floppy over time and you'll have caught it on a fence or something too by then...

Off on a bit of a tangent...

I use Windstopper (softshell) on the bikes and it's fantastic. I vary the inner layers by temperature and use a pertex gilet as an extra layer when it gets really cold.

For winter wet n cold, I move from Windstopper to Neoshell which is a properly waterproof softshell. This combined with a gridded type fleece (e.g. Patagonia R1) and a pertex gilet had me covered for the lowest temps this winter (-8°C). That for me is the perfect combo and I can add another base layer if things were to get a bit more serious temp wise.

Think I'm going to order a Montane Litespeed windproof and see how I get on with that. Tempted by their Alpine Edge softshell too though.
https://www.montane.com/mens-c1/montane-mens-litespeed-jacket-p993#attribute%5B3%5D=205

Have a look at mountain kit website too OP (Montane's outlet) 👍🏻

Boblo appears to be confusing Buffalo DP pertex/pile clothing with their pertex windshirts that others are recommending.

Thanks Nobeerinthefridge, I had spotted that - someone linked to it above. The lightweight softshell they do is a good price on there, hence me wondering whether I should get that and the windproof!

As with most on this thread, I'm a big fan of pertex type windshells . So light and really help keep the chill off, easy to modulate temperature with layers underneath. I've had a few montane ones but I've just treated myself to this Patagonia Houdini, just over 100g and the fit and finish is lovely.

https://eu.patagonia.com/gb/en/product/mens-houdini-windbreaker-jacket/24142.html?dwvar_24142_color=HTE&cgid=mens-jackets-vests-windbreaker

Boblo appears to be confusing Buffalo DP pertex/pile clothing with their pertex windshirts that others are recommending.

Yeah, sorry. Read 'Buffalo' and then went all auto. Their Windshirts were rubbish BITD. If Paramo have a shitty cut, Buffalo easily trump it... 🙃

<edit> I can't believe how expensive Patagonia kit is. I bought a gridded fleece recently and it was 3x anyone elses. I wanted the specific Polarwhatsit material and that was the only one I could find in my size/colour/in stock. Rab do a cheaper version so I'll do a back to back contrast and compare next winter to see where the 3x comes from...

I have a Montane Prism and have had a H20 Velo jackets, both pertex and both were used a lot and were (imo) great. They do both however have rather small zips which inevitably will break. This will probably be when trying to put the jacket on when out hill walking miles from home and a gale blowing.

To be fair the Prism is an insulated jacket not a windshirt and the Velo H2O must be 10 yrs old. (I nearly bought one years ago).

New kit will be different. I've been a Montane fan boy for 20 years and whilst they've made a few less than stellar items in the pursuit of innovation, most of their kit has simply been brilliant.

New kit will be different. I’ve been a Montane fan boy for 20 years and whilst they’ve made a few less than stellar items in the pursuit of innovation, most of their kit has simply been brilliant

+1 for Montane

Montane LiteSpeed ordered.

Thread bump time...

Before I click 'buy' - is there a pertex(y) light wind shell that anyone knows of that:

- has chest pockets

- removeable or no hood

- long enough for a bike

- one rear pocket

- a bright colour without being lumi yellow...

- zip off arms (I could do without this one)

There seems to be a real split - slim, no pockets, bike cut OR low pockets, hood and *very* lightweight.

I can find older jackets, now out of stock including my 1992 Polaris in purple, but not this 'unicorn' jacket...

EDIT: (Rab Vital is closest)

I have a ME Echo jacket (no hood), although they don't seem to do the hoodless option at the moment. It ticks some of those boxes.

https://www.mountain-equipment.co.uk/collections/mens-outdoor-clothing/products/echo-hooded-jacket

I cannot imagine biking in my Rab Vital, maybe save a gentle family ride, I'd be sweating like a fishmongers window.

I find that in autumn, winter and spring, my old pertex(ish) jacket is my most worn thing, just varying layers below. It's also where the zip of arms and rear vent of my current jacket work well.

Sadly the current jacket is cut poorly, with short rear and short arms.

Hillwalking I wear it all the time.

@matt_outandabout - the Krypton is back !!

It's not quite the same but similar-ish. The orange one looks nice

https://montane.com/collections/mens-softshell-jackets/products/montane-mens-krypton-softshell-hoodie?color=Black

ooo, interesting....It looks even warmer than the last one though. The nice bit about the last one is that it wasn't *too* warm, it was however warmer than *just* a pertex layer. This seems more towards a pertex and Alpha insulation.

Sadly I am sporting a new windproof these days, so might need to work out how to justify another jacket. *whistles*

oops - that Montane outlet website link was dangerous...just bought a 'new' jacket...

Great inadvertent PSA 😉

@fazzini I tend to keep that site to myself! 🙂

@Nobeerinthefridge - I retract my previous statement - nothing to see/hear here 😉

lol

Update from the OP here as this thread has reappeared...

I haven't quite been won over by the Montane windproof after a couple of trips to the Highlands with it.

It's extremely effective for something so thin and light. Completely keeps the wind out and pretty effective in a light shower.

The problem for me is that it's just too flappy. The times I most want to wear it, the wind is blowing hard and it makes a right old racket flapping around which becomes annoying quite quickly.

So the upshot is that I've got a lightweight softshell (Rab Borealis) on the way and there may be a little used Montane windproof appearing in the classifieds very soon.

https://rab.equipment/uk/borealis-jacket

Rab Borealis arrived. Absolutely lovely in the Firecracker Orange. Rab stuff is usually a bit boxy for me but this is nice and slim fitting. Not quite as light as the windproof but still packs down super small. Definitely a keeper.

The problem for me is that it’s just too flappy.

They can be. My new one is a Scott running top. It's slim enough cut not not flap as much. Saul doesn't have a hood button/velcro down so that flaps. Mrs_oab is due to sew one on there.

Works well on the bike too...

keela neutronic is good.

https://keelaoutdoors.com/product/neutronic-jacket/

Their Windshirts were rubbish BITD.

Well, as I said, I have an original Buffalo MTB windshirt that has to be close on thirty years old, I’m still wearing it, and it’s still in fine condition. Since nobody else was actually making windshirts back then, as far as I know; I believe Buffalo invented the concept, and haven’t had a need to change what wasn’t broken. Of course, if you feel the need to have all sorts of extras added to what is basically a simple shell to act as a wind barrier, then there’s lots of alternatives.

; I believe Buffalo invented the concept, and haven’t had a need to change what wasn’t broken.

My first windproof was a Helly Hansen, 1989 iirc.

My first Buffalo was when first year uni and my ML so 1992/3 winter.

I believe Buffalo invented the concept, and haven’t had a need to change what wasn’t broken.

I think the Inuit got there first tbh.

Their Windshirts were rubbish BITD.

This made me laugh. They were great for their intended purposes

I love the weird time warp stuff on here. Can I also put in a word for Ronhill Tracksters, KSBs, those cheapo HiTech mids that everyone used to wear, Berghaus Trango Extrem jackets, smelly Helly original Lifa baselayer tops, Troll Jesters, Karrimor Alpiniste packs and myriad other bits of 70s and 80s kit that 'didn't need fixing' in the same way that rigid steel mountain bikes with cantis didn't need fixing.

Notalgia fans might also note that Mountain Equipment is now selling an updated Ultrafleece jacket, ideal for reliving those youthful alpine dreams:

https://www.mountain-equipment.co.uk/collections/mens-fleece/products/ultrafleece-hooded-jacket

i've probably still got a pair of Ron Hill Tracksters, now you come to mention it...

Can I also put in a word for Ronhill Tracksters, KSBs, those cheapo HiTech mids that everyone used to wear, Berghaus Trango Extrem jackets, smelly Helly original Lifa baselayer tops, Troll Jesters, Karrimor Alpiniste packs and myriad other bits of 70s and 80s kit that ‘didn’t need fixing’ in the same way that rigid steel mountain bikes with cantis didn’t need fixing.

Me early 90s....

KSB boots
Ron Hill Tracksters
Buffalo top

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My Montane Featherlight windproof is my favourite jacket, it can make a sunny day in Orkney pleasant. It is so much more breathable than a membrane softshell that I don't have to keep it unzipping it or taking it off to keep cool. If it is freshly washed, proofed and tumble-dried, it can even cope with a light shower in warm weather when I'm not bothered about getting a chill from getting soaked through.

Notalgia fans might also note that Mountain Equipment is now selling an updated Ultrafleece jacket, ideal for reliving those youthful alpine dreams:

I have only just sent my salopettes for recycling - they were teh shizzles on winter canoe trips...although now much superceded by modern layers.

Karrimor Alpiniste packs

My 65lt one kicks ass in the comfort stakes - and is light. Plus, purple. 😎

Notalgia fans might also note that Mountain Equipment is now selling an updated Ultrafleece jacket,

That's a good find. I had one of the original ME Ultrafleece jackets back in the day, it was brilliant and one of the best jacket of it's type I've ever owned- and I've owned many other similar things... just right in a wide variety of situations, soft, comfy, super breathable but stopped the wind cutting through. Wore it everywhere hiking/ biking and it lasted for decades before it wore out.

Might have to go get the new one.

I have absolutely no need for that ultrafleece jacket.

No, no need at all.

No.

Ah, gahwahn...

I still buy Tracksters for dossing around in. I've moved on to running tights for hill bashing though c/w poncy hill trainers for 'fast & light'- sigh...

To be fair, KSB's were rubbish. Tetley's finest were more adept at keeping water out. At least Boghouse invented Yetis shortly after Karrimor gave us KSB's and these made a half arsed attempt at keeping your feet dry(er)...