[Closed] Will you be "remembering", this weekend?

Yes.
Don't care what others do.

Yes I'll be remembering this Sunday. I will donate, I wont wear a poppy or attend a service as I think these events have become part of a hagiography rather than remembrance.

I wont wear a poppy or attend a service as I think these events have become part of a hagiography rather than remembrance

I would like to wear a white poppy, but I don't feel like I can.

I've no problem with remembering, but I do wish there was a greater and wider understanding and honest public discussion of this countries recent and historical past. Too often it falls into simple and repeated memes that are best glossing over reality, or at worst still the barely disguised propaganda that while at the time clearly served a useful purpose, need to be revisted now time allows.

footflaps - Member

Does make a complete mockery of the whole thing. Politicians pin on a poppy and look sombre for one day a year and then start another war as soon as they can get away with it / need a ratings boost...

Totally agree, but I don't think it has to devalue the real thing. Production line mourning and remembrance always honks me off but if it's meaningless then it can be meaningless for everything, good and bad.

When it's a work day I do go off by myself though, I got the distinct impression half my colleagues are observing the silence but actually thinking about their shopping list, or boobs.

would like to wear a white poppy, but I don't feel like I can.

I would too but I am not sure where the money goes if you buy a white poppy, hence my convoluted logic above.

Does it really matter where £1 goes?

If people really cared about ex-servicemen etc they would realise they could donate at any time of year. The whole 1 day / week a year 'devout ex-serviceman supporter and anyone not wearing a poppy is a traitor' thing is just collective hysteria IMO.

You don't have to agree with war to respect and remember those who gave their lives.

Will never forget a Mum telling me that her young lad wouldn't be with the other beaver scouts on remembrance day as his dad had been killed in afghanistan and he'd be laying his own wreath

[i]..anyone not wearing a poppy is a traitor' thing is just[/i]... made up innit? Never worn a poppy in my life and nobody has ever noticed!

..anyone not wearing a poppy is a traitor' thing is just... made up innit? Never worn a poppy in my life and nobody has ever noticed!

It's more for people in the public eye, rather than Everyday Joes.

..anyone not wearing a poppy is a traitor' thing is just... made up innit?

Yes and no. If anyone on TV / in politics forgets etc it would be front page news in the tabloids for days.

I never wear a poppy and no one has mentioned anything (yet).

Sadly true.

Was it last year that there was a big outcry in certain papers about Corbyn not bowing his head quite low enough at the Cenotaph?

[img] ?1[/img]

(Corbyn's mother was an Air Raid Warden and his father was a member of the Home Guard)

Those who think we should forget should remember how it is they’ve come to be in a position to be able to choose to remember or not. The arrogance and conceit is shocking and disappointing. The day we forget is the day we descend into another world war. The least we can do is to remember and be thankful - it’s only for 1 minute every year, a shorter time than it’s taken for some to write their drivel on this forum.

The way we progress as a society is to remember the mistakes of the past and learn from them. It’s not a difficult concept to grasp.

Buy a poppy or don’t. It’s a worthwhile charity at the end of the day if nothing else.

The way we progress as a society is to remember the mistakes of the past and learn from them. It’s not a difficult concept to grasp.

But we don't. We keep going to war. We keep slaughtering innocents either in the name of what ever spurious deity "sanctioned" it or because someone else has something we want. We've got Trump posturing for war with North Korea and Kim reciprocating. The British recent record on war isn't too shiny either. The whole [i]those who don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it[/i] is little more than a soundbite now. DezB's post above illustrates one of my major problems with Remembrance Day is the warmongers laying wreaths. That and worthless royals dressing up in military costumes with unearned medals.

Having said that, will I "remember"? Yes I will. War is sickening for all concerned with the exception of those who profit from it.

#edit: Just remembered this I saw last year.

[img] [/img]

I’d disagree with the point made about the US still continuing to support the view that Americans in general look backwards and support and celebrate Wars, quite how this comment came about says more about the posters ignorance than any cultural reference made about American culture.

The poster's ignorance is an informed opinion from his American wife who arrived in the UK and found our obsession with WW2 in particular baffling.

Does what other people do on thos occaison really matter?

It's not about us and how others perceive our actions.
Just remember, that's the important thing.

And to anyone on here who has served, thank you.

Remembrance Day is the warmongers laying wreaths. That and worthless royals dressing up in military costumes with unearned medals.

Selective quoting. I didn't say all people laying wreaths are warmongers.

Selective quoting. I didn't say all people laying wreaths are warmongers.

However, I bet all warmongerers lay wreaths 😉

#edit: Just remembered this I saw last year.

Yep - pretty much sums up the hypocrisy very well.

Coyote, thanks for posting the cartoon - for me, that sums it up perfectly. I have a different perspective than what seems like most of the locals around where I live. I’m in my mid 50’s and am the youngest of the family, so my parents and most of my grandparents were old enough to have lived and served in WW1 and WW2. One of my grandfathers wa a regular infantryman at the outbreak of WW1 and was one of the ‘old contemptibles’. He was involved in a lot of the battles on the Western Front and Gallipoli; he’d been wounded and gassed more than once, contracted TB from living for weeks on end in mud, rats etc., but somehow survived the whole thing (although he was never fit enough to work again afterwards). Now, here’s what some people might find odd - he couldn’t stand the whole poppy thing, and wouldn’t have one in the house apparently. He said people cared more about the dead than the living, and said the poppy thing was just Earl Haigs blood money.

I think wife’s grandfather (who fought with the 8th army in El Alamein and Normandy) had got a fairly sceptical view of the remeberance stuff too. Apparently, he thought that the country should be looking forward, not back all the time. My favourite story with him was when my wife said she once asked him why Churchill got kicked out after WW2 - he said something like ‘I spent four years fighting fascists - I wasn’t gonna come back home and vote for one of the buggers’.

Interestingly, I think the tories have reintroduced the old rule whereby invalided ex-servicemen only get pension/benefits for children that they fathered before they were discharged from the army. Maybe if the d**kheads that own the Daily Mail, Express, Telegraph and Rupert Murdochs media empire actually paid realistic rates of UK tax, we might be able to afford decent social care for people like ex-servicemen & women.

Yes I will. I will observe silence, I will think of the dead. All dead of all wars. from the Tommy in the trenches to the Iraqi conscript buried by armoured bulldozers. From the French maquis to the Argentinian sailor. From the men off the arctic convoys to the german solders of Stalingrad

I will not wear a red poppy given the way it has been hijacked by the jingoistic and because of the way the money is dealt with.

True respect does not depend on symbols.

we might be able to afford decent social care for people like ex-servicemen & women.

We can, austerity is a political choice, not a fiscal necessity.

Well I will be remembering both my Grandads and of course the other brave men and women doing their duty. One of my Grandads was a dispatch rider delivering mail and messages on the front on a motorbike. A kinder gentler man you couldn’t find. The other a career soldier that got to rank of Major. Hard as nails he was. I don’t need a Remembrance Day to honour their memory. If people don’t want to remember that’s fine. If people want to wear a poppy that’s also fine. Why do we feel the need to force people to decide if they are for or against all the time.

Also the only point at which to honour the dead of wars is 11am on the 11th.

I won't be remembering because I have never seen any war first hand. Thankfully other people have done the fighting. I suspect that an awful lot of people who have would rather forget than remember as well.

I will be respectfully thinking about casualties of war. Dead or injured, civilian or military, big war, small war, civil war.

War results from failure. More often than not, the ones who suffer aren't those who made the errors in the first place.

Yes, I think it's true that there is now a poppy mafia, and those who choose not to wear it should be respected in their choice.

No, I don't think the day should be scrapped and I think it and the RBL are still relevant to the 21st century. War hasn't continued because we remember our war dead.

Simon Jenkins may try to dismiss the sense that many in 1945 and after had that 'we' won the war, and it's true 3/4's of Germans were killed on the Eastern Front. But, and this bit is crucial, it wasn't Hitlers co-conspirator Stalin who stood up to him in 1939, nor was it the USA, it was the British & French Empires. If Britian had then submitted to an offer of armistice in June 1940 it is almost certain the USSR would have been defeated in 1941. So I get why many still see it as 'our' victory, even if it was shared with many other nations.

Still, Simon would probably be happy if the UK had surrendered in 1940; Remembrance Sunday wouldn't have been permitted after that. He is correct that the victors get to write the history.

I'd recommend he directs his attention to Victory Day parades held to mark the nazi defeat in 1945 - the ones in Moscow are probably the biggest. In my opinion that's a kind of remembering that might encourage war and is nothing like a sombre Remembrance Day parade!

Might I politely suggest that those who feel unable to get involved do what ever they feel appropriate. However nasty attacks on something people feel strongly about is hardly mature or nice. Funny how those who wish to "move on" and be all caring etc are those least likely to care about the wishes of others. As proved above. Nothing scathing or nasty from those with a wish to remember, plenty from those who care more about their own views than those of others. Thankfully several generations put themselves at risk so that you have that privilege.

+1

Apparently, he thought that the country should be looking forward, not back all the time.

Just looking at the TV schedule it would seem as though the nation was still hungry for and nostalgic about Ww2.

"how we won the war"
"Britain at war"
Etc etc....

I can't be doing with wearing or buying a poppy. It has, imo, been hijacked by the media and various Britain First type groups and now carries a somewhat jingoistic and nationalistic undertone.

It's crap.

You don't need tanks And subs to take over a country, its all done by the stock market and social media. That bit of threat from terrorism (which numerically is quite small), tanks and subs couldn't sort out anyway. The ruskies helped put trumpski in place without a bullet being fired. What's the point of Trident when our streets are filling up with itinerant mendicants?

Just looking at the TV schedule it would seem as though the nation was still hungry for and nostalgic about Ww2.

"[i]The public wants what the public gets"[/i]

Also the only point at which to honour the dead of wars is 11am on the 11th.

Really? Why?

Seems completely arbitrary to me. Surely, if someone did something worthy of honour, then what difference does it make when you honour them?

What next, an allowed 5 minutes for caring about wildlife when you can only donate to wildlife charities between 5.23 and 5.28 on the 23rd February each year?

Either something is worthy of consideration or it's not.

footflaps - Member

Also the only point at which to honour the dead of wars is 11am on the 11th.

Really? Why

I will not wear a red poppy given the way it has been hijacked by the jingoistic and because of the way the money is dealt with.

True respect does not depend on symbols.

Pondo - fair enough.

Footflaps. I meant remembrance Sunday I don't like. Its a festival of jingoism. Remembrance day is the 11th at 11am - thats when all should stop for a minutes silence. I always try to get it observed at work. this year I will not be working. All electronics will go off. I will observe a minutes silence

Remembrance Sunday is about having a time that is convenient for people so they can been seen to do something without having to stop businesses etc. Remembrance should not be about what is convenient. War is not convenient. the 11th at 11 is the anniversary of the signing of the armistice at the end of WW1. that's why its remembrance time. It should be a personal thing. It should not be about being seen to do something. It should be about stopping and thinking.

Again - My opinion

However also the point that anytime is good for remembrance is equally valid.

Want a particular occasion - then the 11th at 11am.

I'll stick a £1 in the tin I may wear a poppy on the 11th only, but am reluctant to do so because of it's hijacking by the neo Nazis of the EDL BF and UKIP . I will observe the silence and usually think of my grandfather WW1 and 2 my mum and dad shaped by the blitz and my brother shaped by the loss of his mates in either military neglect or terrorism (2 versions no clear answer.)
Despite being a tree hugging quasi pacifist liberal Remembrance Day is ingrained in me and rightly so, it and more importantly those who have served, should not be forgotten.

I dont recognise this assocation with right wing groups, thats not to say it isnt so just that I dont see it.

I do find the slavish approach by TV faces to wearing the poppy a bit weird and those blokes( its always blokes) in 4X4’s with poppys on the grill a bit silly.

Given our aweness now sadly of the pointlessness of many wars it does seem like the poppy needs a new narrative.

I do however think we can and should commerate the people who have given their lives for our security.

A Facebook post by a veteran friend has confirmed that I've made the right decision not to ever wear a white poppy.

Why not? Educate me? Posts by veterans confirm by distaste for the red poppy. Echo chamber?

The post, beneath a picture of a white poppy:

Why not stand out from the crowd and virtue signal your way into a debate with a veteran. You can bring up historically and inaccurate misleading facts like the red poppy only honours the British fallen etc. Please carry on, but I personally think you’re a **** for what it is worth

The stars are obscuring a four letter word that rhymes with cat, in block capitals.

I'd like to wear a white poppy, but suspect I'd meet this reaction.

I don't understand that.
Edit

Your edit gave me the understanding!

Isn't proclaiming yourself to be "A veteran" virtue signalling?

TBH it's a good policy to ignore anything with the words "virtue signalling" in

And the British Legion specifically says that the poppy is only for remembrance connected to the british armed forces, and those who fought with them. The white poppy appeal is totally clear about that too but some people like to misrepresent it for reasons.

All the talk on this thread of Americans being more forward looking etc..not looking to the past...and I just heard on R4 that there is going to be a new WWI memorial erected somewhere in America....I didn't catch where.

For what its worth I think remeberence is very important - too important to be hijacked by the jingoists and actually understanding what war means would have prevent the loss of millions of lives in Iraq and Libya.

Blair was a huge hypocrite over this. His laying wreaths at the cenotaph was really pretty offensive